My first pilsner - advice needed on water chemistry

OK. I'm finally going to brew my biscuit pilsner recipe this weekend, and I need some advice on the water profile.

I've never done water chemistry before, but my tap water isn't going to cut it for the Pilsner profile. According to my city water report, my water is way too hard for Pilsner. So if I use 100% distilled water, can I assume that my mineral PPM is effectively 0?

If so, I should be able to add .6 grams epsom salt, .2 grams non-iodized salt, .2 grams CaCl, and .4 grams chalk to 8 gallons of distilled water for my mash and sparge water for the correct mineral profile, then add 0.3 mL of lactic acid to the sparge to correct for the presence of the chalk.

That gets me 6.7ppm Ca, 2.1ppm Mg, 2.1ppm Na, 8.2ppm SO4, 5.8ppm Cl, and 16ppm HCO3. The target numbers respectively are 7, 2, 2, 8, 6, and 16. My calculations (Bru'n water) say that this, plus my grain bill, will give me a mash acidity of 5.4 and a sparge acidity of 5.8.

I'm skeptical of my pH calculations though, so I thought I'd do an acid rest for good measure. Here's my anticipated schedule:

Dough in at 95°F (30 min), acid rest
Step up to 131°F (30 min), protein rest
Decoct to 148°F (120 min), starch rest
Decoct to 162°F (15 min), mashout.

So... am I going about this right?

For the record, the recipe I've decided on is:

8.5 lb Pilsner
.5 lb Caramel Wheat
.5 lb CaraPils
.25 lb Biscuit

1oz Tett @60
1oz Hallertauer @60
1oz Saaz @25
1oz Saaz @5

WLP800, 5 liter, 2-day starter

...anyone?

bernerbrau said:

OK. I'm finally going to brew my biscuit pilsner recipe this weekend, and I need some advice on the water profile.

I've never done water chemistry before, but my tap water isn't going to cut it for the Pilsner profile. According to my city water report, my water is way too hard for Pilsner. So if I use 100% distilled water, can I assume that my mineral PPM is effectively 0?

If so, I should be able to add .6 grams epsom salt, .2 grams non-iodized salt, .2 grams CaCl, and .4 grams chalk to 8 gallons of distilled water for my mash and sparge water for the correct mineral profile, then add 0.3 mL of lactic acid to the sparge to correct for the presence of the chalk.

That gets me 6.7ppm Ca, 2.1ppm Mg, 2.1ppm Na, 8.2ppm SO4, 5.8ppm Cl, and 16ppm HCO3. The target numbers respectively are 7, 2, 2, 8, 6, and 16. My calculations (Bru'n water) say that this, plus my grain bill, will give me a mash acidity of 5.4 and a sparge acidity of 5.8.

I'm skeptical of my pH calculations though, so I thought I'd do an acid rest for good measure. Here's my anticipated schedule:

Dough in at 95°F (30 min), acid rest
Step up to 131°F (30 min), protein rest
Decoct to 148°F (120 min), starch rest
Decoct to 162°F (15 min), mashout.

So... am I going about this right?

Click to expand...

You're overthinking the salt additions. Use enough calcium chloride to get your Ca+ up to 50-75 ppm. Forget the sodium chloride and the calcium carbonate. If you are worried about magnesium use 1-2g of Epsom salt to get the Mg in the mid single digits ppm. After that mash in at ~130F pull your first decoction and head for 148-150F and then the second to get to mashout.

BigEd said:

You're overthinking the salt additions. Use enough calcium chloride to get your Ca+ up to 50-75 ppm. Forget the sodium chloride and the calcium carbonate. If you are worried about magnesium use 1-2g of Epsom salt to get the Mg in the mid single digits ppm. After that mash in at ~130F pull your first decoction and head for 148-150F and then the second to get to mashout.

Click to expand...

Hmm. So, all I've been reading about the importance of pH, alkalinity, RA, chloride/sulfate balance... not necessary, even for pilsner which (reportedly) has a high sensitivity to water chemistry?

Also isn't pilsner supposed to have very low alkalinity? Doesn't calcium chloride increase alkalinity?

bernerbrau said:

Hmm. So, all I've been reading about the importance of pH, alkalinity, RA, chloride/sulfate balance... not necessary, even for pilsner which (reportedly) has a high sensitivity to water chemistry?

Also isn't pilsner supposed to have very low alkalinity? Doesn't calcium chloride increase alkalinity?

Click to expand...

As I said earlier, you are overthinking this. Pilsner water should have virtually no residual alkalinity and the Cl/SO4 ratio thing confuses more people than it helps, especially novices. Calcium chloride does not increase alkalinity, it helps keep the pH down and would be used with this style rather than the ubiquitous gypsum because you don't want SO4 adding a pale ale like edge to the hop profile. Trust me, with a modest Ca+ content along with some Cl- and very low numbers on the SO4 and CO3 your pilsner mash pH will be just fine.

You're talking about distilled water, or my local tap?

Palmer uses Pilsen, CR water as an example in the chapter on his book on mash and water chemistry. These 2 pages are all you'll need to be confident in your numbers.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-1.html
http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-2.html

First, you are right - Distilled water has 0 minerals. RO water may have some, but usually very low.

One thing you can do is to cut your tap water - I have to do that with Pils - 2 parts RO to 1 part tap.

Also, while I haven't done a comprehensive analysis of the ions (nor am I qualified to do so ), I can tell you a couple of things.

I would bump that CaCl2 up in the 40 ppm range, and that is likely to take care of your pH and your RA.

I just put your numbers into Beersmith - 5g of CaCl2 (1.7g Mash, rest in the sparge) will get you 40ppm and a mash of 5.5. I'd be happy with that, but if you want to drive that pH down to 5.4, use 30g of acidulated malt.

Seriously though - check out this post . It will take care of most of your needs in a very simple manner.

And you are right, the water in Nashville is horrid (at least in Symrna)

Why 1.7g CaCl2 in the mash, 3.3g in the sparge? My mash and sparge volumes are about equal... Why wouldn't I go 2.5/2.5?

And what about the acid contribution from the crystal wheat? Does that affect the amount of sauermalz needed?

bernerbrau said:

Why 1.7g CaCl2 in the mash, 3.3g in the sparge? My mash and sparge volumes are about equal... Why wouldn't I go 2.5/2.5?

And what about the acid contribution from the crystal wheat? Does that affect the amount of sauermalz needed?

Click to expand...

I had just used a 1.3 qt/# ratio. If your volumes are the same, then split them.
I added the Crystal into the calculations.

Seriously, you can just about drive yourself crazy trying to build water. The Pils wants a nice soft water. The CaCl2 gives the yeast something to munch on while lowering the pH.

I might also recommend listening to Kai Troester on Basic Brewing Radio. He has 2 parts on pH, and they are good.

So I've yet to send my tap water sample off for testing, but according to my metro data sheet, my sulfate is 38.4, my chloride is 7.8, my pH is 7, my alkalinity is 56, and my hardness (which I guess is Ca+Mg) is 74.

I was going to go 100% distilled water, but is there a dilution ratio I would be OK at?

Since I don't have the Ca or Mg, I am using 4/5 of the hardness as Ca.
You actually have fairly soft water down there. I came up with a 50/50 mix, adding 2g of CaCl2 and 50g of sauermalz brings the pH to 5.4, and eliminates the RA.
Ca:47, Mg 7,Na 2,SO4 19, HCO3 17, Alk(CaCO3) -27, RA -78.

If you wanted to be super safe, 2 drops of Lactic acid in the sparge water would eliminate the RA there, but I wouldn't worry too much about that.

You might be able to call or email for the Ca,Mg, bicarb (HCO3) levels.

Oh yeah, drop half a campden tablet in there to get rid of any Chloramine.

LooyvilleLarry said:

Oh yeah, drop half a campden tablet in there to get rid of any Chloramine.

Click to expand...

I have KHSO3 powder. My LHBS doesn't sell campden. I also have a 10 micron carbon block filter, which I think is supposed to get rid of chloramine, but I don't know how that will affect my water chemistry.

bernerbrau said:

OK. I'm finally going to brew my biscuit pilsner recipe this weekend, and I need some advice on the water profile.

I've never done water chemistry before, but my tap water isn't going to cut it for the Pilsner profile. According to my city water report, my water is way too hard for Pilsner. So if I use 100% distilled water, can I assume that my mineral PPM is effectively 0?

If so, I should be able to add .6 grams epsom salt, .2 grams non-iodized salt, .2 grams CaCl, and .4 grams chalk to 8 gallons of distilled water for my mash and sparge water for the correct mineral profile, then add 0.3 mL of lactic acid to the sparge to correct for the presence of the chalk.

That gets me 6.7ppm Ca, 2.1ppm Mg, 2.1ppm Na, 8.2ppm SO4, 5.8ppm Cl, and 16ppm HCO3. The target numbers respectively are 7, 2, 2, 8, 6, and 16. My calculations (Bru'n water) say that this, plus my grain bill, will give me a mash acidity of 5.4 and a sparge acidity of 5.8.

I'm skeptical of my pH calculations though, so I thought I'd do an acid rest for good measure. Here's my anticipated schedule:

Dough in at 95°F (30 min), acid rest
Step up to 131°F (30 min), protein rest
Decoct to 148°F (120 min), starch rest
Decoct to 162°F (15 min), mashout.

So... am I going about this right?

Click to expand...

Considering that this is a Pils, going with a DI or RO water is a good idea. I'm surprised that you would need any chalk in the mash, but having it on hand might be helpful if you have a pH meter. I would live with the mash pH that is produced as-is if you don't have a meter. Adding alkalinity is only a good idea if you're dealing with a dark grist and the pH is down below 5.3. A low pH with a Pils can still be a pleasant beer. That pH might be a little too sharp when dealing with a darker beer.

Remember, add no alkalinity producing minerals to the sparge water. If you need the Ca in your beer and you want those minerals in your beer, add the amount dedicated to the sparge into the kettle instead, not to the sparge water. If you're sparging with RO or DI water, you probably don't need to acidify the sparge water anyhow. RO and DI water have naturally low alkalinity.

I wouldn't rely on a Pilsen profile to produce a good beer. You should bring the Ca to at least 40 ppm, if not 50 ppm. I would be more inclined to follow AJ's advice to add primarily CaCl to boost the Ca and not worry so much about the other ions at this stage. You can play with the flavor ions such as SO4, but they should be low too.

I see you're planning a decoction. Unless you're dealing with one of those undermodified malts, I'd cut those rest times down a lot.

mabrungard said:

I see you're planning a decoction. Unless you're dealing with one of those undermodified malts, I'd cut those rest times down a lot.

Click to expand...

Well, it's canadian pilsner and I'm not sure what the modification is like on it. Plus I got the mash schedule from somewhere else on the site where someone was recommending it for pilsner.

bernerbrau said:

I have KHSO3 powder. My LHBS doesn't sell campden. I also have a 10 micron carbon block filter, which I think is supposed to get rid of chloramine, but I don't know how that will affect my water chemistry.

Click to expand...

Any information on this? I don't want to filter my tap water then find out I filtered out all my calcium ions.

Inorganic ions such as Ca, Mg, Na, HCO3, SO4, and Cl are not filtered by activated carbon. You would have to filter the water through an ion exchange system (DI), or through a RO membrane to alter the concentrations of those ions.

You can also let the water stand for ~24 hours, or boil it for 15 minutes.

mabrungard said:

Inorganic ions such as Ca, Mg, Na, HCO3, SO4, and Cl are not filtered by activated carbon. You would have to filter the water through an ion exchange system (DI), or through a RO membrane to alter the concentrations of those ions.

Click to expand...

OK, but will it filter out chloramines? Because I googled it and most places are saying carbon block filters are not effective at removing chloramine.

Hmm. So assuming my carbon block filter works like a Brita pitcher, it looks like it should be removing about 92.5% of chloramine instantly. Good enough for government work and homebrew, I would think. I guess "effective" is a relative term depending on whether you're a brewer or an aquarist.

So, to sum up:

0. Add 50g (1 3/4 oz) acid malt to the grain bill.
1. Run all tap water through the carbon filter.
2. Dilute all mash and sparge water 1:1 with distilled water.
3. Add 2g CaCl2 to the mash.
4. Add 2 drops of lactic acid to the sparge water.
5. Proceed with normal brew day.

Did I get that all right? Other people are recommending I get a pH meter so I can make sure my wort acidity is correct.

The lactic acid would be added based on your ph readings... Don't add more than 2ml of lactic acid per gal (Palmer), else you'll impart a sour flavor.

The key to achieving high removal rates for chlorine and chloramine from drinking water is the residence time the water has with the activated carbon. For the typical 10" filter unit, the flow rate must be brought down to 1 gal/min or less to provide good removal.

For typical water pressure of about 60 psi, that means that an orifice plate with a 1/16-inch diameter hole is needed. At the most, the hole size will be 3/32-inch. In either case, the hole is quite small. When dealing with a filter unit connected to a garden hose, I find that drilling a 1/16" hole in a copper end cap for a 1/2" copper pipe and then inserting that into the hose will work. You will probably have to mount a hose clamp around the hose to prevent leakage around the end cap.