Redhook 8-4-1 Expedition Strong Brown American Ale Clone

Just tried this beer tonight and was impressed enough to go looking for a clone. Of course it looks like it's so new there is none to be found. What I did find:

ABV: 9.5%
IBU: 55

Its combination of brown sugar and honey, paired with a variety of rich specialty and smoked malts before being aged for months with oak chips, give it a depth worth sipping next to the fire. Inspired by eight brewers working in four teams, 8-4-1 offers complex nuances to the traditional American-Style Strong Brown Ale that I am confident beer connoisseurs will appreciate.”

The Ale offers complex flavor notes, delivering malty sweetness and medium bitterness with hints of smoked flavors and oak chips balanced by the addition of honey, brown sugar and candi sugar.

Click to expand...

Summary: Specialty & smoked malts, Brown and Candi Sugar, honey, oak aged.

I'm not quite good enough to take a stab at a grain bill or pick out the hop varieties used. Anyone out there had it and think they can? I'd be willing to brew something that sounds close to find out!

Found more hints:
Malts: 2-Row, Wheat, Munich, 2 types of Caramel, Chocolate and Cherry-wood Smoke
Hops: Alchemy, Willamette, Cascade, Crystal and Sterling

From: http://beerandcoding.com/review-8-4-1-expedition-ale/

Eric,

The information on my site came from my press contact at Redhook. I can't say for sure if each of the four individual ales that were blended into 8-4-1 used everything listed, but that is the correct grainbill for the final product. A true clone is going to be tough without any information on the four ales that comprise 8-4-1 and their ratios in the blend.

In addition to the grains, brown sugar was used during the brewing process; I believe the honey and oak chips were used in secondary, after the ales were blended. Since Alchemy is the Craft Brewers Alliance's special hop blend, you might have to do a bit more googling to see if anyone knows what varieties are in this year's mix.

If I can get any more information, I'll pass it along.

Cheers!
Kevin

Thanks for the great info Kevin. I wasn't sure if the 8-4-1 was actually a blend or if the recipe was a blend. If it is in fact a blend it would be near impossible to get a true clone, or at least beyond the effort I am willing to put into it I should say.

I'm going to try and do some more research and hopefully make a "first draft" recipe soon. I think I should be able to at least get something close in style from what we've got here.

Eric,

You can probably get close to the style of 8-4-1 by brewing a big, bitter American Brown with a touch of smoked malt. My first draft would look like this:

65% 2-Row
10% Munich 10L
10% Medium Crystal (~60L)
5% Dark Crystal (~120L)
~3% Wheat Malt
~3% Chocolate Malt
~3% Cherry-wood Smoked Malt

I'm not exactly sure how I would split up the sugar additions; probably 50/50 brown sugar at the end of the boil and honey in the fermenter. I didn't get hardly any honey flavor out of the brew, so my guess it that is that the yeast in the fermenter completely chewed through it. Make sure the strain you use is highly attenuating and will handle being fed the late fermentables. Maybe someone with a greater yeast knowledge can chime in with suggestions; I usually stick with dry yeast except for my Belgians. You can probably skip the candi sugar, I didn't detect anything special that I would contribute to it.

As for hops, I wasn't getting a lot of hops flavors from 8-4-1, but the bitterness seemed far above the listed 55 IBUs. Like I mentioned in my post, the brew might need some time to age. I would go with a fairly neutral, high-alpha hop for bittering, like Nugget and finish with a combination of Cascade and Crystal, or your low-alpha, spicy hop of choice.

Probably isn't the best clone, but should get you somewhere in the same vein.

Cheers!
Kevin

Looks like a great first draft, ya beat me to it. I'll add this to the list of my upcoming brews, and of course update here with an exact recipe.

I am thinking of using either WLP007 or WLP029. Both are pretty clean. I know the WLP029 has given me some great attenuation and I'm about to use the WLP007 on a big IBA, so we'll see how that comes out.

Oh, and I do agree that it seems more then the 55 IBUs listed, but not by much, at least to me. I had it on draft and would say it was about perfect, not that aging would have hurt, but didn't need it. And related, i got it at a Capital Alehouse "Steal the glass" so it came with the free, damn nice, Redhook Limited Release glass which complemented the brew well.

Thanks for your interest in 8-4-1. This beer was a pleasure to brew. The diversity of ideas from the brewing team all combined to make a surprisingly well balanced finished product. Your clone recipe seems like it is on the right track for a close copy of the beer, but I could lend a couple of tips to help you on your way:
-The WLP007 will probably work well in this beer.
-The 55 BU's advertised are lab test results, not calculated. Typical calculated BU's tend to be higher. Go heavy on the finishing hops.
-You may want to drop the amount of the larger percentage specialties (Munich and the Caramels), and a touch more chocolate might be good.
-Last tip: The honey was added in the kettle. Much easier to dissolve that way.

Glad you like 8-4-1, and good luck,
Tom Mace, Production Brewing, Redhook Woodinville

Awesome, thanks for tips for the source Tom!

Tom,

Thanks for the great information!

And Eric, be sure to let us know how this one turns out when you get around to brewing it.

Cheers!
Kevin

I took the contents of this thread and came up with a recipe that I brewed today. Thanks to all y'all.
I chose to start a new thread.

Drom John Redhook 8-4-1 Expedition Ale