English Barleywine-ish recipe critique

So my brother and sister in law went to Africa on a medical mission for about a year, and my wife and I want to brew a big beer that we can age until they come back. So I came up with this barleywine recipe. It's not strictly to the English barleywine style but thats fine with me. I kind of wanted the bitterness of an English barleywine and the flavor and aroma of an American barleywine. Big malt flavor balanced with big hop flavor. Not positive this is going to be any good or what I'm going for though. What do you guys think?


Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: English Barleywine
Boil Time: 90 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 8.25 gallons
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.093
Final Gravity: 1.022
ABV (standard): 9.45%
IBU (tinseth): 65.75
SRM (morey): 20.87

FERMENTABLES:
14 lb - Maris Otter Pale (71.8%)
4 lb - Munich (20.5%)
0.5 lb - Caramel / Crystal 40L (2.6%)
0.5 lb - Special B (2.6%)
0.5 lb - Pale Chocolate (2.6%)

HOPS:
2 oz - Northern Brewer (AA 7.8) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Columbus (AA 15) for 15 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Northern Brewer (AA 7.8) for 15 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Columbus (AA 15) for 0 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Northern Brewer (AA 7.8) for 0 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Columbus (AA 15) for 7 days, Type: Pellet, Use: Dry Hop
0.5 oz - Northern Brewer (AA 7.8) for 7 days, Type: Pellet, Use: Dry Hop

MASH STEPS:
1) Temp: 149 F, Time: 90 min

YEAST:
Danstar - Nottingham Ale Yeast

Oh also, I'm planning on secondarying half of this on oak cubes possibly soaked in something. Any suggestions on that as well?

You didn't mention anything about it so I'm going to give the standard "make sure to pitch enough yeast" public service announcement. Check Mr. Malty for that.

Other than that it looks ok enough for me. A tad dark IMO but that shouldn't really matter. If you want to do the oak cubes you could just soak them in a bit of bourbon, not too much but it wouldn't hurt.

I'm not sure how others feel, but I always like Nottingham for its dry finish.. it can really work through some large beers. That being said, I don't think you'll finish at 1.022 FG ... not with so little crystal and a 148-F mash temp. I bet you'll finish closer to 1.010 than you will to 1.020..

So, how firm do you want your body on this beer? If you want to keep it medium-high, then I would up the mash temp to 156-F. Alternately, you could add more crystal, but I would go with higher mash temps.

If you like a medium-low finish, keep it where it is, but your ABV will be higher.

If you haven't done a high OG beer like this before, like inhousebrew suggested, you will need to pitch a higher amount of yeast. You will also need to keep good control on fermentation temps and plan on at least a 4 week ferment.

Underpitched or stressed yeast can produce a lot of fusal alcohols flavors, and you dont' want that. I'd also go for some low ferm temps... low 60's to keep those at bay... like 62F-63F.

Good luck!
--LexusChris

I think the OP has the FG guess pretty well pegged. A low mash temperature and reduced crystal malts surely do dry out beers -- but good luck drying out a beer with an OG over 1.090. I think the grain bill looks solid.

I don't care much for northern brewer as a late kettle/dry hop. I'd personally choose another American hop to pair with the Columbus (like Amarillo, Summit or Cascade). To each their own.

Lots of yeast, lots of aeration. If you don't have pure O2, aerate the wort a second time 16 hours after pitching the (MULTIPLE and REHYDRATED!!) yeast packs.

Good luck and happy brewing.

bigbeergeek said:

I think the OP has the FG guess pretty well pegged. A low mash temperature and reduced crystal malts surely do dry out beers -- but good luck drying out a beer with an OG over 1.090. I think the grain bill looks solid.

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I'd agree with this. 1.095-1.022 would mean you're sitting at about 77% apparent attenuation which might even be a bit high for a beer like this. It's unlikely you're getting below 1.020 for this beer and that's totally ok. If anything for big beers you want to try and dry them out so they don't end up sickly sweet.

Yeah this is the biggest beer I've done yet. Like you guys said, I've heard that you need to make the wort as fermentable as possible so it doesn't end up cloyingly sweet. And I would rather it end up too dry than too sweet to drink. Which is why it's not too heavy on crystal malts, I'm going to mash at 148-149, and I'm using Nottingham. Oh, and I did consult Mr. Malty and it said to pitch 1.7 packs, so I'll just pitch an even 2. Rehydrated of course.

About the hops, I've never used Northern Brewer before but I thought the "woody" and "evergreen" character sounded like they would go well with the beer. I've heard of them used in brown ales which this seems kind of similar to. Are they not good for aroma and dry hop additions? I guess I could just smell them on brew day and make the call then. I'll have some cascade or something on hand in case.

Also, I don't have O2 so do you think just shaking the carboy about 16 hours into fermentation would work?

Thanks for all the help!

peterj said:

Also, I don't have O2 so do you think just shaking the carboy about 16 hours into fermentation would work?

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I think you should shake the fermenter before fermentation begins, with or without the yeast. After fermentation begins, the head space of your fermenter will be full of CO2, and shaking it will not add any O2 to the solution, and will probably result in an extreme blowoff. YMMV

Oh right, I forgot about the CO2 in the headspace, that makes sense. I have a venturi type transfer tube for aerating and i'll definitely shake the fermentor to begin with. Hopefully that will be enough.

Good point Hex!

I usually use Nottingham on my American Wheat and get pretty good attenuation, so I looked up my past recipes to see what the OG, FG, Mash Temp, Crystal % and Sugar % were... maybe this can be helpful data..

Nottinghame Ale (Danstar)

Style Brewed OG -> FG Atten. Mash Crystal% Honey%

Amer.Wheat 1.047 -> 1.004 91% 150-F 5% crystal 9% sugar
Amer.Wheat 1.039 -> 1.008 79% 148-F 5% crystal 9% sugar
Amer.PaleAle 1.058 -> 1.011 81% 154-F 17% crystal --
Amer.Wheat 1.049 -> 1.005 90% 150-F 5% crystal 9% sugar
Amer.Wheat 1.060 -> 1.006 90% 150-F 5% crystal 9% sugar

I also did a barleywiine recently with US-05 and got:

Amer.Barleywine 1.101 -> 1.013 87% 150-F 8% crystal 5% sugar

Certainly the sugar is going to dry things out a bit, and my honey wheat is definitely a dry brew. I don't recall what happend with the 2nd brew there... definitely something was up, as my recipe aims for a higher OG ... but here is that data, warts and all.

I still think Notty is a dry ale yeast, and it should drop you into the high-teens .. which is a good spot to be on your barleywine!

Sounds tasty regardless! :rockin:
--Lexuschris

Well I brewed this on Saturday with a few modifications. My HBS didn't have pale chocolate so I used regular chocolate. Then I decided to throw some roasted barley in there just for fun. I think it's halfway between a RIS and a Barleywine now. And I couldn't decide between Northern Brewer and Cascade, so I just used both. Here's the recipe I brewed:

Title: Darkside Barleywine

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: English Barleywine
Boil Time: 150 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (ending kettle volume)
Boil Size: 8.75 gallons
Efficiency: 66.5% (ending kettle)

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.091
Final Gravity: 1.021
ABV (standard): 9.18%
IBU (tinseth): 76.31
SRM (morey): 33.64

FERMENTABLES:
14 lb - Maris Otter Pale (70%)
4 lb - Munich (20%)
0.5 lb - Caramel / Crystal 40L (2.5%)
0.5 lb - Special B (2.5%)
0.5 lb - Roasted Barley (2.5%)
0.5 lb - Chocolate (2.5%)

HOPS:
1.5 oz - Northern Brewer (AA 10.6) for 60 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Cascade (AA 6.3) for 15 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Columbus (AA 13.9) for 15 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Northern Brewer (AA 10.6) for 15 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Cascade (AA 6.3) for 0 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Columbus (AA 13.9) for 0 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
0.5 oz - Northern Brewer (AA 10.6) for 0 min, Type: Pellet, Use: Boil
1 oz - Columbus (AA 15) for 7 days, Type: Pellet, Use: Dry Hop

MASH STEPS:
1) Infusion, Temp: 149 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 25 qt, Strike Temp = 163F
2) Sparge, Temp: 185 F, Time: 10 min, Amount: 20 qt, Single batch sparge

YEAST:
Danstar - Nottingham Ale Yeast

I pulled off more than expected with the first runnings and then I forgot to stop the second runnings in time. So I ended up with a half a gallon more wort at ~10 gravity points too low. Long story short, I had to boil it for 2.5 hours. I aerated as much as a could, pitched 2 packs of Notty, and it's fermenting like crazy now at 62F. Hopefully it'll turn out well! Guess I'll know in about a year!

So I want to add oak cubes to half of this and age for about 3 months or so. I think I'm going to soak them in Scotch for about 2 weeks then dump the whisky out and add the oak to the secondary. Any suggestions on what type of oak to use? American vs French vs Hungarian? I was thinking medium plus toast. Also not sure about how much to add. Maybe 0.5 - 1 ounce? Any suggestions would be very appreciated.

I added 3 oz of scotch & 1.5 oz of US medium toast cubes to an RIS. The cubes sat in secondary for about 7 weeks and gave a noticeable addition: some tannins from the oak and a nice vanilla note. I let the cubes soak in scotch for ~ 3 weeks total and did two scotch dumps before I allowed the last one in the carboy. Off it went into tertiary for another 4 months before being bottled. I'd say the oak is a little more up front than I want now, but most of these will be drank in '13 and '14, so it should blend beautifully by then.

US medium toast had a fair amount of tannins, I would opt for the French or Hungarian as they are more delicate. I just bought 3 oz of Bordeaux blend cubes for a future brew.