Opinions on dry vs. liquid yeast for my next batch?

To date I've only used dry yeast for my brews. It is just so easy and my results have been good. However, with the prices going up on dry yeast I wouldn't mind trying liquid yeast to see if it makes a better beer. I've tried to read up on it but not 100% sure if I would need more equipment to do a starter, how much time it takes, etc...So I wanted to get your thoughts. The kits I'm thinking about brewing are:

A German Altbier (never had one of these before):
German Alt Extract Kit w/ Specialty Grains : Northern Brewer

The choice is between us-05 and Wyeast 1007 German Ale

A brown ale:
Caribou Slobber Extract Kit w/ Specialty Grains : Northern Brewer

The choice is between Danstar Windsor and Wyeast 1332

I might also be persuaded into this English Pale Ale:
The Innkeeper Extract Kit : Northern Brewer

The choice is between Nottingham, Wyeast 1945 or Wyeast 1469.

Any thoughts?

It is always good to try new stuff when you brew. The liquid yeasts you list above are all good choices for those brews.

I use a lot of US-05 and always have a couple of packs in the fridge for spur of the moment brew days. It works great for brews that need a neutral yeast. It is very easy to use and always works.

I also use a lot of liquid for the different flavor profiles it gives. There are many brews that the best choice is liquid yeast. It will open up a lot more styles that you can brew.

If you do go with the liquid, learn how to make a starter. It is very easy and worth the time.

Give the liquid a try and enjoy your brew.

I use liquid yeast with starters but keep packets of various dry in the fridge in case of emergencies ( i.e. infected starter ).

You don't need much for a starter. A erhlenmeyer flask ( mine is 2 L ), some DME, and tin foil ( loosely cover the flask ). Additional items would be stirplate & stirbar, anti-foam ( to prevent boilovers when boiling the starter ), yeast nutrient.

It doesn't take much time either. I boil my starters for 10 minutes, cool, and pitch the yeast. I put it on a stirplate and try to pitch at high krausen ( usually 18-24 hours ). For larger starters, I will let it finish out, put it in the fridge, and then decant the beer on top and pitch the slurry.

Ale my beers so far have been ales. For lagers, starters take a little longer, especially if you need to step it up once or twice to get enough yeast.

Thanks for the replies.

Beergolf: you said "There are many brews that the best choice is liquid yeast. It will open up a lot more styles that you can brew." -- I think this is what I was mainly trying to get at. For the German Altbier it seems like it might be better to do a german yeast versus a clean dry yeast like Nottingham. Doesn't seem to me that it would make as much of a difference on the brown ale, but I could be wrong....if both yeasts are clean producing than I don't know how much it is worth it.

stevo: I'll read up more, but the only things you really need are a flask, DME, and tin foil? The "additional items" aren't required?

As for DME, does everyone just buy a bunch of DME and keep it around the house for when they need a starter?

I have used both with great results. If you do use liquid I would suggest a starter for white labs but wyeast I have not had to create a starter. Seperate question, why are you buying from Northern Brewer when we have 2 great LHBS in Cincinnati?

Yeahman99 said:

I have used both with great results. If you do use liquid I would suggest a starter for white labs but wyeast I have not had to create a starter. Seperate question, why are you buying from Northern Brewer when we have 2 great LHBS in Cincinnati?

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Are wyeast the "smack packs"? I noticed that in the instructions and meant to ask about that.

In the past I've ordered from AHS but thought I'd try NB this time around. I've bought some kits from Listermann's but IMO they weren't that great. Plus I've never liked their service....I really like Paradise Brewing but they don't make kits themselves and I don't trust ones that have been sitting on shelves. I'll go there when I have time and when I need to get equipment or some random ingredients....But really, the main reason I order online is convenience. With 2 kids and a pregnant wife, I just struggle find time to go out to the LHBS when it's easier to have the stuff shipped to my doorstep.

cincybrewer said:

Thanks for the replies.

stevo: I'll read up more, but the only things you really need are a flask, DME, and tin foil? The "additional items" aren't required?

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You don't even really need the flask—I've done several starters in a growler, and it's worked great. It just means you'll have to boil the wort in a pot first, rather than boiling it right in the flask.

Here's a nice tutorial on how to make a starter: How to Make a Yeast Starter

I'll read up more, but the only things you really need are a flask, DME, and tin foil? The "additional items" aren't required?

As for DME, does everyone just buy a bunch of DME and keep it around the house for when they need a starter?

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You don't even really need a flask, but any container that you have will work. I did my first starters in a glass apple juice bottle. Just boil up some DME cool it down, and put it in the container you are using,add the yeast cover with sanitized foil and shake the container every time you walk by.

I now have flasks and a stir plate which is much easier.

I either buy some DME for just making starters or if I do mini mash recipes sometimes you do not use even pounds for the recipe and I just save the extra for starters.

cincybrewer said:

As for DME, does everyone just buy a bunch of DME and keep it around the house for when they need a starter?

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I make a few extra liters of wort and keep it in the freezer. It much cheaper (if doing all grain) and easier that way.

cincybrewer said:

stevo: I'll read up more, but the only things you really need are a flask, DME, and tin foil? The "additional items" aren't required?

As for DME, does everyone just buy a bunch of DME and keep it around the house for when they need a starter?

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The additional items are not needed but are helpful. A stirplate and bar will assist with yeast growth, but so can giving the flask a swirl everytime you walk by it.

As others have pointed out, you don't even need a flask. I like the flask so I can boil right on the stove and not need to sanitize anything for the transfer.

I keep DME around for starters and also for batches where I don't quite hit my numbers.

if you reuse the dry yeast slurry, you now have liquid yeast.

Listy's is not the best in customer service until you get to know them. Paradise does have their own kits in all grain and extract but not available online (yet). I have 2 kids (2 and 3) so I understand how hard it can be to brew especially plan ahead 2 days or more to do so.

Thanks for all the tips!! That link is very beneficial and makes it look not so complicated to do a starter.

What about these smack packs though? Are these handled in a similar fashion? It looks like Wyeast is a smack pack.

Yeahman99 said:

Listy's is not the best in customer service until you get to know them. Paradise does have their own kits in all grain and extract but not available online (yet). I have 2 kids (2 and 3) so I understand how hard it can be to brew especially plan ahead 2 days or more to do so.

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Yea, it seems like Listermann's is only friendly if you are a pro brewer or if you know them. I still go there occasionally as it is more convenient but frankly if I try not to give my business to places that don't offer friendly service.

Yea, sorry, when I mentioned Paradise it was more about them not having their own extract like Listermann's. I tend to mix it up whether it's a kit or another recipe but I'm all extract. I guess I could get DME there as well. I will go there for yeast and hops if I am in the area as I love their customer service.

SO I ended up going with the Wyeast liquid yeast but I do have a question:

I smacked one the yeast last night and by this morning it was completely swollen. Do I stick it back in the fridge or keep it out? I plan on brewing it either this afternoon or on Friday. Thanks!

Edit: Also, do you make a starter with smack packs? Their website says not to but from reading it looks like most people think you should.

This afternoon - keep it out.

Friday - put it in the fridge and take it out the morning when you brew to let it warm up.

Yeahman99 said:

If you do use liquid I would suggest a starter for white labs but wyeast I have not had to create a starter.

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Bad advice. Both WL and Wyeast are pitifully low in cell counts. You need to make a starter with liquid yeast from either vendor, if your OG is going to be 1.040 or higher.

A swollen smack pack just tells you that you have viable yeast...its not the same as making a starter.

There is now a third LHBS in Cincy. Table Top Brewing on Harrison Ave. Not the selection as Listermans, but very friendly to the new brewer. Couldn't you just use some of the DME or LME from the kit for your starter? Also could you just make the starter in you primary fermentor and pour the wort on top of that once the starter takes off? Would eliminate the need for flasks and stir plates? I'n fairly new to breweing but just wondering.

I've been using S-33 a lot lately, and it's worked out really well.

Big krausen and good flavor with my English ales and barleywines.

g-star said:

Bad advice. Both WL and Wyeast are pitifully low in cell counts. You need to make a starter with liquid yeast from either vendor, if your OG is going to be 1.040 or higher.

A swollen smack pack just tells you that you have viable yeast...its not the same as making a starter.

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Not disputing what you say because I know a lot of times manufacturers will put the minimum requirements rather than the best practice and maybe that is the case here. But anyway, I wanted to show what Wyeast says about it.

6. Do I need to make a starter for an Activator?

No. The Activator is designed to deliver professional pitch rates (6 million cells/ ml.) when directly added to 5 gallons of wort. ( <1.060 at 70 degrees). However, if a package is slow to swell, suspected of being mishandled, or if the date is approaching the six month shelf life it is a good idea to build the culture up with a starter. High gravity or low temperature fermentations require higher pitch rates. This can be achieved with inoculating with additional packages or making a starter.

Wyeast Laboratories. Customer Service FAQs


If I do make a starter, how long do I need to wait? I'm assuming that if I wanted to brew in a couple hours, it'd be too late to do a starter with my smack pack?

cincybrewer said:

Not disputing what you say because I know a lot of times manufacturers will put the minimum requirements rather than the best practice and maybe that is the case here. But anyway, I wanted to show what Wyeast says about it.?

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You can make beer by pitching a single pack without a starter into 1.060 wort, but you will be under-pitching by a significant margin. This will result in long lag times, off flavors, excessive esters, and stress on the yeast.

Proper pitching rates + correct ferm temps = better beer.

Thanks for the info. I will def. do a starter with my next batch in a day or so. Ran out of time with my last one but seems to be doing alright so far. Not a very long lag time but we'll see how well it does.