Anyone that uses a gift card online checks to make sure that it worked correctly. It's safe to say that he knew he was getting more value than $40. Are those assumptions? Yes. But they're quite realistic.
Austin Homebrew This Sounds Like YOUR Accounting Mistake Not Mine!
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SailorTodd
Well-Known Member
For my part the issue isn't that he stole from AHS or anything. It was a simple mistake on OP's part, or even possibly on the part of AHS. But to lose it over a polite and courteous email, trying to defame the company that's just trying to make an honest living like any small business owner would, is absolutely uncalled for.
Does he deserve to be called a thief and a fraud? Not at all. Is it morally objectionable to refuse to pay the $35 AHS wants to settle with him? No, especially if it was an honest mistake. But is it right for him to put them on blast in front of a community that frequents the store, trying to wreck their business without even trying to settle it directly with the company? Absolutely! It's incredibly immature and backhanded. That's where OP crossed the line to morally objectionable territory and offended me.
On another note, I have never shopped AHS. I might have to check them out. I've heard great things...
I covered his response in my first post. It was totally out of line. But you're choosing very strong words when you mention a parent's pride in response to what you think you are reading in others' responses.
If I received an email regarding that item and knew I had taken it, I'd go pay for it. If I received that email and did not know I had gotten that item for free as they were stating, I don't see myself "paying up".
In this guys case, based on what we've been told, I'd have written back to AHB asking for some clarification. If I had not known that the gift certificate was not for $75, I'd politely inform them of this fact, tell them I don't feel responsible for the mistake, and see where they wanted to go from there. If I did know, and had tried to get away with it anyway, then I'd probably feel ashamed and pay up.
For the record, AHS shorted me a 1/2 oz of hops once (I order from them frequently). I emailed Forrest as an FYI, telling him that I had a substitute for the recipe so I didn't mind and just wanted him to know in case something was wrong with his scale. I asked for nothing in return. I say this to show you that jumping on others' "morals" is a bold assumption that you should be able to back up if you plan on doing it. I see the possibility for an honest mistake here and will reserve such strict judgement of one's character until I see reasons to believe otherwise. Furthermore, I certainly will not judge the character of people who are responding to the situation.
I'm totally with you on that. It was one of the first things I said in this thread.
two_hearted
Well-Known Member
Well said.
I can honestly say that I have always known the quantity of money on a gift certificate before completeing a purchase. If it was not listed on the GC anywhere, I would do the research prior to even completing the purchase. It is indeed a reasonable assumption that he knowingly proceeded with the transaction, and is now ranting and raving in attempts to blow the situation out of proportion enough that nobody will question his actions. I have seen this so many times in the retail business, and it always ends the same. The customer throws a huge fit, i.e. "I will never shop here again" is a classic line, over and over again, (next he will be threatening to sue), and gets what they want because nobody wants to have the situation blown out of control. And in these situations, the customer is always the culprit. If he had come on here, said that there was a problem with his order, and that he was working on fixing it, I would not have jumped to conclusions. Sorry, but if you choose to believe differently, more power to you.
Trust me, I am no moralist. Nor was I pushing my values on anyone. Really, in the end, will my post ever change the OP's morals. Absolutely not. Nor will anyone try to convince me that what he did is justifiable.
And BTW, I still have not heard anything from DizzyPants. I would still like to hear how he weighs in on this. Maybe he can put this all to rest, make all of us feel like jerks, and we can carry on with our lives as if we didn't give a fat rats ass about his ordeal with AHS.
two_hearted
Well-Known Member
You really think he'll come back to this thread after everyone called him a *****ey thief with no morals? Really, nothing he could say would put this to rest. He handled the situation poorly and blew off some steam in a public place.
Then again, maybe he will live up to mccumath's assumptions and threaten to sue everyone.
Then again, maybe he will live up to mccumath's assumptions and threaten to sue everyone.
Sixpak
Well-Known Member
I find it hard to believe that OP didn't notice the extra value of his gift card. Next someone will try to convince me that they don't ever look at the "Total" before hitting the "Are you sure and Pay Now" button. He didn't even attempt to work things out with AHB after he got "caught".
I suppose if this happens enough times then AHB has no choice but to jack up the prices so that we ALL have to pay to make up for these little mistakes.
I suppose if this happens enough times then AHB has no choice but to jack up the prices so that we ALL have to pay to make up for these little mistakes.
Its too early in the morning for me to be filled with righteous indignation.
Well, not really, but I'm just not feeling it here.
Well, not really, but I'm just not feeling it here.
Whhaahahha.........!
For some reason I dont think this was the reaction the OP was looking for (whole tread against him)
Sitting in a coner somewhere and feeling extremly rejected,
and cats out of the bag on the GC scam! i would be worried!
For some reason I dont think this was the reaction the OP was looking for (whole tread against him)
Sitting in a coner somewhere and feeling extremly rejected,
and cats out of the bag on the GC scam! i would be worried!
Yeah, I'm with the majority on this one. Bad move by OP, both in trying to dodge paying for what (s)he got for free, and in trying to smear AHS's rep on this forum.
And yeah, there's no way (s)he'll come back to this thread.
And yeah, there's no way (s)he'll come back to this thread.
Displaced MassHole
Well-Known Member
I suppose the OP would have just swallowed it if he'd been short-shipped his order because he mistakenly typed in a $35 credit vs a $75 credit. I'm sure he'd rant at himself for making an honest mistake.
B
B
ArtVandelay
Well-Known Member
I'd think the people who gave it to me were cheapskates.
I'm not even saying he is right, just asking a question
Absolutely not. Nearly double the amount of what he should have received? No way.
See, this is right on. While there is clearly a problem with the AHB gift certificate system (which hopefully after this discussion they will make adjustments to protect themselves against in the future), this guy knew what the value on his GC was. $40. When you know you have $40, get more than that in total items, and assume that it's just your good luck or something...To me that's not much different from finding a wallet on the street, looting the cash out of it, and tossing it back on the ground. The honest, moral, and ethical course of action is correct the error immediately.
Not only that, it became less innocent when he came to a public forum attempting to slam a well respected business, and part of this community. Admittedly, his attempt has backfired on him (good for you HBT!) but the entire purpose of his starting this thread was to create negative publicity for AHB. That makes this a much less 'innocent' situation. He clearly never contacted them. As many have pointed out here, there's a really good chance that they would have happily worked something out with him. But seriously, what he did was steal, plain and simple.
AHS is a great online supplier. I have ordered from them a few times and always check them for product.
AHS sent out a very nice and professional email.
Best of luck to Forrest and to his new brewery.
Cheers
T
AHS sent out a very nice and professional email.
Best of luck to Forrest and to his new brewery.
Cheers
T
I simply do not get how you can order 75 dollars worth of stuff, use a 40 dollar GC, get the full order, and expect to not have to pay the difference. Did you use some other payment option also? Was your bank account charged?
(Also I didn't read the entire thread just the first page.)
(Also I didn't read the entire thread just the first page.)
tnance1337
Active Member
You know what Airborneguy, I did make a pretty hefty assumption. I have re-read his post, and he doesn't make a claim that he knew. He also doesn't object, either.
For what it's worth, I'll give it to you that it was a mistake. A preemptive decision to steal is cognitively far different than receiving an error in your favor (ie: my register analogy).
However, it's as similar as it gets when you walk away with something that doesn't belong to you and make no attempt to rectify. Furthermore, $40 is a major oversight. Given the design of online checkout systems, I find it nearly impossible that the OP did not knowingly checkout, apply a gift certificate, see his final amount be deducted by nearly double what he originally knew it would be deducted by, and finalize his purchase. Sure, it's an assumption, but still a pretty reasonable, and logical one.
Also, for what it's worth, I make no claim that I have any moral high-ground. I have yet to push my morals on anyone, here. I've simply stated my opinion in a public forum, to which I'm simply responding to what I feel to be an immoral act on the part of the OP to attempt to trash a reputable vendor for his mistake.
I apologize, however. Perhaps I should have simply taken the stand against the idea of posting a bash, instead of the content of the the post.
For what it's worth, I'll give it to you that it was a mistake. A preemptive decision to steal is cognitively far different than receiving an error in your favor (ie: my register analogy).
However, it's as similar as it gets when you walk away with something that doesn't belong to you and make no attempt to rectify. Furthermore, $40 is a major oversight. Given the design of online checkout systems, I find it nearly impossible that the OP did not knowingly checkout, apply a gift certificate, see his final amount be deducted by nearly double what he originally knew it would be deducted by, and finalize his purchase. Sure, it's an assumption, but still a pretty reasonable, and logical one.
Also, for what it's worth, I make no claim that I have any moral high-ground. I have yet to push my morals on anyone, here. I've simply stated my opinion in a public forum, to which I'm simply responding to what I feel to be an immoral act on the part of the OP to attempt to trash a reputable vendor for his mistake.
I apologize, however. Perhaps I should have simply taken the stand against the idea of posting a bash, instead of the content of the the post.
The OP may have overlooked the mix up upon ordering, but..
After this correspondence the OP knows that he received goods not paid for. A call to AHS was in order to clarify the problem.
To take this public rant without even contacting AHS is reprehensible.
How anyone can justify the actions of the OP is beyond me.
I again call for the OP to make a public apology on this site to AHS..
Not necessarily for the transaction but for making a public rant without calling AHS to discuss the matter first.
After this correspondence the OP knows that he received goods not paid for. A call to AHS was in order to clarify the problem.
To take this public rant without even contacting AHS is reprehensible.
How anyone can justify the actions of the OP is beyond me.
I again call for the OP to make a public apology on this site to AHS..
Not necessarily for the transaction but for making a public rant without calling AHS to discuss the matter first.
mikeysab
Well-Known Member
With a name like Dizzypants, i'm not surprised he made a mistake. And you should have known the second you put in the gift certificate number. Sounds like a low down dirty snake move to me. Pay up and stop being a thief
My main issue was with the guy who mentioned others' fathers being proud of them. That's a bold statement to make against people you don't know.
I'm not saying it was a mistake; I just see the possibility that it can be. If it was, it certainly would not be the worst, most blatant, or most outrageous mistake any of us has ever heard of or made ourselves.
The only thing I know for sure is that the OP's response was out of line. I also can't get over those who KNOW that the OP KNEW the value of his GC. I've gotten plenty of GC's (in this age of thoughtless gifts) whose value I didn't know until I used it. Not to mention, there's also the possibility that this GC had a much higher value and had already been partially used, leaving him with an amount he wasn't sure of. Gift Cards very rarely look like checks anymore with the handwriting of the owner/manager on them. Kudos to anyone who knows precisely what the balance of thier credit-card looking plastic GC's are; I don't. Right now I can say that my wife and I have 3 GC's to the same restaurant with remaining balances on them. I have no clue of the total. If that makes me an immoral bastard, so be it.
I'm not saying it was a mistake; I just see the possibility that it can be. If it was, it certainly would not be the worst, most blatant, or most outrageous mistake any of us has ever heard of or made ourselves.
The only thing I know for sure is that the OP's response was out of line. I also can't get over those who KNOW that the OP KNEW the value of his GC. I've gotten plenty of GC's (in this age of thoughtless gifts) whose value I didn't know until I used it. Not to mention, there's also the possibility that this GC had a much higher value and had already been partially used, leaving him with an amount he wasn't sure of. Gift Cards very rarely look like checks anymore with the handwriting of the owner/manager on them. Kudos to anyone who knows precisely what the balance of thier credit-card looking plastic GC's are; I don't. Right now I can say that my wife and I have 3 GC's to the same restaurant with remaining balances on them. I have no clue of the total. If that makes me an immoral bastard, so be it.
DizzyPants
Well-Known Member
Dearest Name Callers and The Uninformed,
For everyone to get in a tizzy about your so called knowledge about this business and making assumptions about me have OBVIOUSLY never ordered from them or used a Gift Cert with them through their website. Laughingly it makes you sound very simple.
I never knowingly took, ordered, received or deceived anyone to get more products than what I paid for, actually at some the contrary happened.
The Gift Certificate was purchased in August for $40. At this point let's do the math AHB has $40, I have a piece of paper.
The order was made online and during the checkout process they ask in a separate box if you have any coupons, promo codes or gift certificates you would like to apply to your order.
No matter what you enter in that box has NO immediate or direct reflection on the total price of your order. You can put in a valid Gift Cert code, promo code or you could write "Herman Cain likes poon" and it does nothing to your checkout price. So you could never just sit there and enter codes until what some have said "the right" discount comes up. Their discounts through codes and cert numbers are not computerized and I am sure someone has to look in a book and apply the applicable discounts. This is where the mistake has arisen. I have no way of knowing if a different code was entered because they is not a portion of your account you can review on their website through your order history. So I just have to take their word for it.
So when you checkout with your debit card you are paying FULL PRICE for all the items you ordered and shipping.
So to take some of the "slower" people in the class through this one more time, at the time of checkout technically AHB had the FULL PRICE of the items/shipping I ordered PLUS $40 I gave to them earlier in August. So to those who think I was trying to get something for free and cheat I am sure the local Community College is offering remedial math this quarter. Good luck with that.
It was their mistake to credit the wrong Gift Certificate which I didn't know about and obviously due to their seemingly loose bookkeeping didn't know about until months after the fact. Then to months later contact me to tell me they made a mistake and I owe them? Right. That train has left the station.
So thanks for calling me a thief, liar, cheater and the like. I hope you continue to have a comparable uninformed life in a daze going forward and get in a terrible car crash on the way home from work today.
All the Best,
~Diz
For everyone to get in a tizzy about your so called knowledge about this business and making assumptions about me have OBVIOUSLY never ordered from them or used a Gift Cert with them through their website. Laughingly it makes you sound very simple.
I never knowingly took, ordered, received or deceived anyone to get more products than what I paid for, actually at some the contrary happened.
The Gift Certificate was purchased in August for $40. At this point let's do the math AHB has $40, I have a piece of paper.
The order was made online and during the checkout process they ask in a separate box if you have any coupons, promo codes or gift certificates you would like to apply to your order.
No matter what you enter in that box has NO immediate or direct reflection on the total price of your order. You can put in a valid Gift Cert code, promo code or you could write "Herman Cain likes poon" and it does nothing to your checkout price. So you could never just sit there and enter codes until what some have said "the right" discount comes up. Their discounts through codes and cert numbers are not computerized and I am sure someone has to look in a book and apply the applicable discounts. This is where the mistake has arisen. I have no way of knowing if a different code was entered because they is not a portion of your account you can review on their website through your order history. So I just have to take their word for it.
So when you checkout with your debit card you are paying FULL PRICE for all the items you ordered and shipping.
So to take some of the "slower" people in the class through this one more time, at the time of checkout technically AHB had the FULL PRICE of the items/shipping I ordered PLUS $40 I gave to them earlier in August. So to those who think I was trying to get something for free and cheat I am sure the local Community College is offering remedial math this quarter. Good luck with that.
It was their mistake to credit the wrong Gift Certificate which I didn't know about and obviously due to their seemingly loose bookkeeping didn't know about until months after the fact. Then to months later contact me to tell me they made a mistake and I owe them? Right. That train has left the station.
So thanks for calling me a thief, liar, cheater and the like. I hope you continue to have a comparable uninformed life in a daze going forward and get in a terrible car crash on the way home from work today.
All the Best,
~Diz
Only AHS doesn't give anonymous non valued cards.. They provide electronic notification of the gift and amount OR a gift certificate. Ergo, OP knew.... unless someone said "hey, here's a gift and you enter this code". Occam's Razor...
Here's a link AHS gift cert details..
Austin Homebrew Supply
bovineblitz
Well-Known Member
Even if there's an accounting mistake, you still owe them money, no?
I mean, your general demeanor already wins you the dbag of the month award, why not do things the right way? You've already publicly slandered the company and become a joke to the HBT forum, the least you can do is live up to a basic morality and pay what you owe.
This whole thread looks to me like your attempt to justify taking what's not yours from AHS.
Diz, you now deserve any name calling that comes out of this thread. That last post was about the *****iest thing I've ever read around here.
Bottom line, any business that makes a mistake in transaction and credits the customer more than they are owed has the discretion of asking for the money back if it is trackable and that same basic moral code goes the other way too. I don't think you went into this with intent to deceive, but now that both parties are aware of the credit overage, it should be made right. If not, what exactly IS the allowable time lapse for this to happen? If they found it a week later, would you have paid the money back? How about a day?
If a cashier makes a mistakes and floats you an extra $5 in change, do you tell them or walk away feeling like a winner?
Do me a favor and don't ever buy from my store.
Bottom line, any business that makes a mistake in transaction and credits the customer more than they are owed has the discretion of asking for the money back if it is trackable and that same basic moral code goes the other way too. I don't think you went into this with intent to deceive, but now that both parties are aware of the credit overage, it should be made right. If not, what exactly IS the allowable time lapse for this to happen? If they found it a week later, would you have paid the money back? How about a day?
If a cashier makes a mistakes and floats you an extra $5 in change, do you tell them or walk away feeling like a winner?
Do me a favor and don't ever buy from my store.
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Hey bobby, you made an error when I ordered a sight glass from you a couple years ago. You didn't include a cleaning brush that I didnt ask for, or pay for. Please send me a blichmann for free instead.
I kid, I kid...
I kid, I kid...
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I figured the OP had no idea for months what had happened. Yeah he owes them money, but I question the vendor contacting after so long to request money for their own mistake. Not saying it's not their money, which it is, but if it was me and I was a vendor, I'd eat that loss and keep it quiet, then go fix my GC system.
bknifefight
Well-Known Member
I like how Dizzy came out of the woodwork and decided to win the hearts of the masses by calling everyone stupid.
Also...
Also...
tnance1337
Active Member
So you are trying to tell all of us that when you checked out, you agreed to pay the full price and be credited the $40 AFTER payment? That doesn't sound right...
Secondly, I wouldn't consider this "loose bookkeeping". How is AHS to know that the gift certificate wasn't rightfully redeemed until the true owner tries to redeem and is rejected months later?
You're not making a better case for yourself. No matter how it happened, it was still an error in your favor, and you owe the business. Afterall, you were the one who made the mistake by typing in the wrong number. AHS is only guilty of allowing an automated system to receive payments and didn't not include a fail-safe check to ensure that gift certificates are being redeemed by the owner.
You know what, honestly, I'll take your word for it that you didn't know. I'll even agree that you didn't intentionally deceive the company. But do you really think you are entitled to the extra money? If by some strange stretch of the imagination you think you won a mythical lottery prize for being the first person to discover a flaw in their system, then I give up here.
If it was me, I would have called the man at his request and clarified the situation and circumstances surrounded it. I'm sure he would have been just as reasonable as me, and would have come to the conclusion that we both benefit from maintaining a healthy customer-vendor relationship, and likely would have resulted in something favorable to both of us. I sure as hell would not have come here looking for sympathy towards your sense of self-entitlement.
PS: You seriously wish for me to potentially kill myself, and possibly multiple others in a car accident because I disagree with you? Clearly you have the moral high-ground in all of this.
Secondly, I wouldn't consider this "loose bookkeeping". How is AHS to know that the gift certificate wasn't rightfully redeemed until the true owner tries to redeem and is rejected months later?
You're not making a better case for yourself. No matter how it happened, it was still an error in your favor, and you owe the business. Afterall, you were the one who made the mistake by typing in the wrong number. AHS is only guilty of allowing an automated system to receive payments and didn't not include a fail-safe check to ensure that gift certificates are being redeemed by the owner.
You know what, honestly, I'll take your word for it that you didn't know. I'll even agree that you didn't intentionally deceive the company. But do you really think you are entitled to the extra money? If by some strange stretch of the imagination you think you won a mythical lottery prize for being the first person to discover a flaw in their system, then I give up here.
If it was me, I would have called the man at his request and clarified the situation and circumstances surrounded it. I'm sure he would have been just as reasonable as me, and would have come to the conclusion that we both benefit from maintaining a healthy customer-vendor relationship, and likely would have resulted in something favorable to both of us. I sure as hell would not have come here looking for sympathy towards your sense of self-entitlement.
PS: You seriously wish for me to potentially kill myself, and possibly multiple others in a car accident because I disagree with you? Clearly you have the moral high-ground in all of this.
TomRep
Well-Known Member
Way to edit the car crash statement. I'm 100% on your side now...ok, maybe not.
exactly, he knew he entered the wrong number and claimed money that wasnt his and admitted to knowing this. even if it was accidental and he didnt notice, the right thing to do would be to pay it back. you expect a gift credit of X and took Y, you owe the difference! and we wonder what is wrong with the world....
I recently recieved a gift certificate to AHS for my Birthday, I placed my order and entered in all the info. i was alittle shocked when i check my bank account later the day and the full amount of the transaction was charged. knowing how every trans i have ever done with AHS has been fulfilled quickly, i figured they would refund the amount back for the certificate. which they did. i dont know about you, but i would question why AHS refunded back $75 instead of $40 for the certificate
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