When is it All Grain time??

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Eepa

Eepa

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I know im way ahead of myself, but it just sound so awesome to be making my own all grain recipes. Im a cooker of sorts, and i love to take my time and make a great meal for myself or others... whether its adding different ingredients or trying out different temperatures and methods. I know that all grain brewing isnt at all close to cooking but the effort, time and ingenuity of brewing your own all grain recipes just sounds magical.
I also love to experiment and try new things which is why i cant wait to start. I know its a lot harder that i seems but all grain just seems to be the defining moment when it goes from a fun side project/activity to a life long fulfilling hobby. So id like to hear from you guys, when did you decide you were ready for all grain? and what made you turn that corner?
How would i now im ready? how long do most people wait?
Dont worry guys i know im not ready and dont plan on jumping in anytime soon, im just curious and would love to hear your stories...do you guys ever look back?

-Eepa
 
Most people on here will probably say that you need to wait until at least your 10th brew to go all grain. Some people will say that you need to start as soon as possible. I switched on my 7th (or so) brew. I say that people should start all grain when they have a reasonable understanding of the process.
 
I made one extract + steeping recipe, one partial mash kit from AHS then decided to move into AG and haven't looked back.

Some people never move to AG, and I'm cool with that. They're still making beer and that's what matters.


:mug:
 
As A4J said, everyone will tell you something different. Some people have brewed for years and are still straight extract or PM brewers, others jumped feet first and went AG from the start. It all depends on you - if you feel you're ready, if you've done enough reading (!), and have the space and time to go AG.

I wanted to switch after my second batch, but I live in a tiny apartment. So - I switched, but I brew at my parents' house where a propane burner is not a problem. Everyone's different.

Start with an extract or better yet, a PM (see DB's helpful thread) and go from there. Good luck! :mug:
 
Whenever you have the month to get what you need, just jump in. That's how I did it. I was afraid I'd screw something up, it seemed so intimidating. Once you do AG a couple of times though, you realize that it's nowhere near as difficult as you may be making it out to be (like I was).

Now I can't imagine doing extract. Coming up with a grain recipe is half the fun for me.
 
I think there are three indicators of when you should go to AG and you should (ideally, IMHO) meet all of them before you go to AG.

1) You fully understand and are comfortable with everything in extract only brewing. This means thing such as sanitation practices, importance of fermentation temps, the effect of hop schedules on your beers, etc... There's alot of stuff here to grasp so don't rush it.

2) You understand the importance of the mash. What used to be opening a bag and dumping it in is now a two hour process that involves hitting precise temperatures with relatively precise volumes of water and lots of grain. There are steps that cannot be ignored and/or taken lightly. If you do, you risk making something that is not at all what you intended. The steps aren't hard, but they are important.

3) This is the most important one.... You feel like you want more challenge in your brewing and you also feel the desire to have more control over the brewing process. Of course, you also have to be willing to buy more equipment :D
 
If I had it to do again, I'd have gone straight into AG. IMO, it is less complicated than Extract or PM in that you aren't on the stove, not trying to account for late additions or small boil hop efficiencies.

When I was doing extract it took almost as much time as it does a full on AG. Just wasn;t as equipment intensive/expensive.
 
If you are interested in going all grain...just GO! I know a few people that NEVER did extract batches and their beer is great. You need to make sure to read and reread some good books on all grain brewing until you are comfortable with the process. After that, it's really just buying the correct equipment for the Mash/Lauter process. If you like taking your time and crafting a delicious beverage, and at the same time learning how to make beer in the traditional way, all grain brewing is the way to go.

I brewed 5-6 batches of extract before jumping into all grain brewing. It was an easy transition, and only cost me $25 to upgrade from my extract setup. I took an old 5g cooler, and put in a ball valve and SS braid for the lautering "manifold". I already used a turkey fryer kit for my boil kettle, and for all-grain I simply forced it to do double duty as my hot liquor tank (HLT). I used my bottling bucket to collect the first runnings from the mash, then transfered those to the boil kettle after I had made my last sparge water addition. From that point forward, it's just like extract...boil->hops->chill->pitch.
DSCF0113.JPG


Braid:
DSCF0117.JPG


It's coming up to a year since I brewed my first batch, and I've moved on to 10 gallons batches and am loving it. Buying a grain mill with some fellow brewers was the best purchase I've made. Coupled with buying bulk 50# bags of grain for $30-45/bag is a real pleasure. I can now brew a 10 gallon batch of my house ale for $18.93 for the ingredients. Even for my more expensive recipe it rarely gets above $30 for a 10 gallon batch. With extract I was paying $28-35 for a 5 gallon batch. All grain works for me, and sounds like it would work for you too. It's a bit of a step up in equipment, but it allows more flexibility with recipe formulation, better beer(given good process), and it's cheaper per batch.


The three biggest cons I see with all grain are:
1) $$$ for equipment, but this depends a lot upon YOU. You can go and buy an 1/2 barrel automated setup for $6500, or spend a modest $50-100 for a nice 5 gallon system.
2) Time. Extract is faster because you don't have to heat sparge water or perform a 60-90 minute mash and sparge. But if you like brewing, and like taking your time with makin beer, this is a non-issue.
3) Space. Again, this depends a lot on you and whether you brew inside, outside or in the garage. Many people do all grain on their stovetops, but this would never work for me, or I should say SWMBO. Lucky for me I've got a garage I can take over with my brewing equipment.

Well that's got to be my longest post evar! Hopefully you can glean some information from it, and make an informed decision about your brewing future. Cheers to you, and cheers to all homebrewers! :mug:
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
If I had it to do again, I'd have gone straight into AG. IMO, it is less complicated than Extract or PM in that you aren't on the stove, not trying to account for late additions or small boil hop efficiencies.

When I was doing extract it took almost as much time as it does a full on AG. Just wasn;t as equipment intensive/expensive.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking. When doing all grain, all the steps just make sense. It seems more complicated doing mini mash. I'd do all grain first.
 
Your only wasting time by talking about it! I did 3 extract batches and jumped into all grain. If you have the equipment and the space there's no reason not to.:mug:
 
Just go for it, we can even split some of the equipment costs. Let me know though, cuz I'm buying today!
 
4 batches for me.

I already owned:
  • Turkey fryer.
  • Everything else I needed post-kettle.


All I needed was:
  • 10-gallon cooler from Home Depot.
  • A manifold - I made one out of scrap copper in about 1.2 hours
  • Drain Valve - Bought the parts at Lowe's and built it in about 1 hour.
  • Wort Chiller - Some flex copper, some hose clamps and garden hose fittings...was built in about 30 minutes.

If you de-mystify the mash process, you're a lot closer than you think.

Step 1: Heat some water to XX degrees and mix it with your grains.
Step 2: Go find something to do for 1 hour.
Step 3: Drain the liquid off of the grains and into a kettle.
Step 3: Heat some more water and dump it back into your grains again...drain into kettle and repeat until you have about 7 gallons of wort.
Step 4: Boil and add hops.
Step 5: Drop in your wort chiller to cool it down to 70(ish) degrees and add yeast.

:mug:
 
I, for one, went right into AG. I never even used any DME until one day a few years ago I got a stuck mash and had to save a beer with some DME in the fermenter. To this day I wouldn't even know how to do a PM or extract kit (I suppose I could read the directions).

It seems to me that, ultimately, it depends on space in your brewhouse for gear, and the amount of your finances that you're willing to dedicate to it. I'm just glad that SWMBO doesn't know that I could brew with a fraction of the equipment and expense.

Also - if you live in an area that has a local homebrew club you could make friends and tag along to watch them brew. Offer to buy the ingredients and split the batch. I have a new person brewing with me every other batch learning the ropes. And I try to brew with more experienced brewers, too, to learn new tricks to improve my process.
 
I did one extract then went to AG. If you have the equipment just go with the AG, not that much different, just more steps.
 
I wanted to start AG, but at the time I lived in an apartment. After a few months, I moved (I'd like to say it was because I wanted to do AG really badly, but it wasn't). I now live in a house with a covered porch, a huge shop/garage, and a shed (which I will be turning into the brewhouse). Anyway, I did 6 batches of extract, then one PM, and the rest is history.

The switch is really a matter of personal experience, comfort, and confidence. I found the extract process (including sanitation, etc) to be pretty easy after the first batch, and I made a few really good beers, so stepping up to AG (and subsequently making even better beers) was an easy transition. For others, it takes longer to get comfortable with the process. Reading and research is always helpful and will move you along more quickly, but YOU will know when you're ready.
 
I went AG after I had a firm hold of the extract process and was getting consistent results. I think it was around 10 batches.

You are way ahead of the game having this forum. I did not know anyone who brewed and figured out everything on my own. This site has a huge wealth of knowledge that can help you.
 
When is it all grain time? When you feel like brewing like a real man...


Or, when you feel like it is time to grow cojones as a real brewer...

No no, I kid I kid...

But really... when you want to be a man about it. :D
 
There are no levels, I think. You brew how you brew. If you want to brew AG, just do it. It isn't like you need experience points or a Racking Cane of Sanitizing, with a +3 fermentation bonus (although I do have one and they are very nice).

If you want to do AG, do it. Read up on it, research this site for what you need (I highly recommend Bobby_M's primer) and just brew.

Things won't work the way you expect, you will mess something up and beer will happen. And that is the same whether you are doing AG, extract or PM.
 
I knew it was time while I was turning the crank on the can opener. It jest hit me then that this prehopped can of extract, add water and yeast jest ant brewing.
 
The Pol said:
When is it all grain time? When you feel like brewing like a real man...
Click to expand...

I wonder when Yooper became a man.

OP: Don't overthink it. It really isn't that hard and you can definitely jump into AG as soon as you want. If you can cook, you can do AG brewing. Start building your equipment. Go for it.
 
My first batch was extract, second batch had steeping grains, third was a PM, and by #5 or 6 I was all grain. I love cooking and I love building cool stuff, so it was a natural progression. As has been said before, it really can start sounding more complicated than the reality.

Definitely get involved in a local homebrew club. Ours only meets once a month, but they have a board where we can post up brew days. I'd say at LEAST every other weekend someone is doing an all grain batch and people can drop in to check it out
 
I switched after 7 batches. At that point I felt like I had a strong grasp on the processes for extract. I felt that I was able to easily reproduce consistent results.

I wanted more from my beer making. I enjoy kraft mac and chees, but always prefer made form scratch home made. that's what I wanted from my beer.

I had added an additional item or step to each of my extract batches. whether it was doing yeast started, full boils, or something else, I wanted each batch to have another challenge.

The only thing that I wish I could still do is to brew after work. that was possible with extract, but with all grain it takes too long.
 
i just did my first ag Tuesday it went perfect! honestly i was kind of over whelmed at first, ounce i started i hit all my temps, every thing went great. i have done 4 extract batches. i am really curious how, if any different, the all grain will taste. good luck!
 
It's the difference between opening a can of Cambell's soup and making homeade soup.

It's all about what you want and are happy with.

If you plan on going all grain, go... there is very little gained in perfecting a process you don't plan on ever using again. Learn doing it the way you want to do it.
 
My first two were extract with steeping, my third is going to be a PM (next week) and I'm really thinking about going AG for #4. I thought it was some crazy process but after watching a couple of youtube videos and reading here it really isn't that difficult. I have three coolers so I can easily sacrifice one for brewing.

My only question is how long does it take if you batch sparge? I'm guessing 1.5-2 hours for the sparge (heating water, mash, mash out), 1 hour boil, .5 hour cool down. Is 3.5-4 a reasonable estimate?
 
In order to brew consistently good beer via all grain, you need to understand brewing to somewhat of a higher degree than you do to just start with extract brewing. Whether you do that through extract/PM brewing and/or studying up on brewing texts, I think it's important to understand why you're doing each task.

Personally, I've never brewed anything but AG and probably never will. I was certainly still learning through my first few batches, but they were good (but not great). It's all relative to the individual and one way is not necessarily better than the other. My philosophy is if you're asking about brewing AG, you're ready to at least start learning about it in depth. Then you'll know if you want to make the switch.
 
NOW!!! NOW IS THE TIME TO GO ALL GRAIN!!!!

I would say for me, when it 'clicked' as to the process of brewing. I cant really explain when that happened, but I realized how simple it was and was no longer intimidated by things like a 'stuck sparge' and other scary words that made no sense.

I am doing one of my first ALL AG brews today and the nice thing about it is I can set it and forget it for a while. (While I come here to type) ;)

Although the thought of sculpting a brew rig sounds mighty appealing right now... This heating strike/sparge water on the stove and running out to the mancave to dump it in the MLT is getting rather old. (Very quickly)
-Me
 
I went AG after two extract batches.

I got a brand new turkey fryer for free, which I wasn't expecting. I was looking at buying one and a neighbor said they had one they would never use and just gave it to me. I already had an empty keg so I cut the top of and turned it into a keggle. I then coverted a 10 gal. cooler to a MLT and bought 50' of copper and made an IC.

I was just planning to go ahead an do a couple full boils, but said ef it and just bought the ingredients to do an AG batch, did a lot of reading and just went for it.

My first AG batch went well and I haven't looked back.
 
kendrid said:
...

My only question is how long does it take if you batch sparge? I'm guessing 1.5-2 hours for the sparge (heating water, mash, mash out), 1 hour boil, .5 hour cool down. Is 3.5-4 a reasonable estimate?
Click to expand...

My brew day from filtering water to done cleaning up is about 4.5 hours. I've had days where I'm done in 3.5 hours...but that's when I don't have friends and neighbors over to distract me :D. I've also had days where it takes 5-6 hours, due to stuck sparges, chatty neighbors, and over indulgence (not recommended! :cross:). I recently made the switch to brewing 10 gallon batches, so I've noticed that this extends my brew day by about half an hour due to a longer sparge time. With a 5 gallon batch, I've found you can get away with one sparge if you don't mind sacrificing a couple efficiency points. With a 10 gallon batch, I MUST do 2 batch sparges and sometimes depending on the grain bill another couple gallons after that. YMMV.

My typical 10g brew day:

Start @ 12:30pm: Get all the equipment out and set up, and filter 15 gallons of strike water.
12:30pm - 1:00pm: Heat strike water to 166F
1:00 - 1:15: Mash in and stir thoroughly. Take a temperature reading and adjust if necessary with boiling or ice water.
1:30 - 2:00: Gather another 12 gallons of filtered water, and heat to 180F for the sparge.
2:10 - 2:20: Recirculate/Vorlauf until wort is clear
2:20 - 2:45: Batch or fly sparge (lately I've been fly sparging). While sparging, start up the boil kettle burner and start bringing that wort to a boil.
3:00 - 4:00: Boil. Clean out mash tun. Drain HLT. Add sanitizer to primaries and cover with tin foil.
4:00 - 4:30: Chill and rack to primary (I use a CFC). Pitch yeast.
4:30 - 5:00: Clean out boil kettle and....DONE!
 
JoeMama said:
Although the thought of sculpting a brew rig sounds mighty appealing right now... This heating strike/sparge water on the stove and running out to the mancave to dump it in the MLT is getting rather old. (Very quickly)
-Me
Click to expand...

now is the time to invest in another burner and propane tank!
:)

this made my brewing life so much easier....amazon had the sp10 on sale for like 40 bucks shipped. you can heat sparge water while mashin, and the brew pot is there for the first runnings...i wish i had bought the second one sooner honestly.

to the OP:
when you ask the question when to go ag, that is the time to do so.
for me extract was a bigger PITA! i love being outdoors and not stuck in the kitchen... plus i got my music as loud as i want in the garage.

good luck!
 
You sound a lot like me, as soon as I started brewing I knew I wanted to do AG I just wasn't sure when I would be ready.

What I did was watch Ebay, CL and the classifieds on HBT and I started picking up AG equipment for cheap as it became available since I wasn't in any hurry. I ended up making the switch for about $120 (which included a MLT, chiller, 20qt pot and propane burner). I actually only ended up doing 1 extract batch because I was lucky finding everything that I needed. It is definitely true what previous posters have said about AG not being as complicated as it sounds. Good luck!
 
Well i cant wait to jump in to AG. It seems that the deciding step is space and equipment. I dont have either so im going to wait and just take my time accumulating all the required tools. I will totally be keeping my eye open for good deals on equipment and hopefully soon ill have a good spacious place where ill have no problem brewing when i want and storing all my stuff. Lucky for me i have a friend on here, STAD, who is going to start AG soon and i will definitly be helping him. So cheers to all and thanx for the advice.

-Eepa
 
When I first started extract brewing and joined this board, I was very intimidated by AG. I made the mistake of checking out the sculpture tread, and figured I would never be able to afford, or understand the complicated process of brewing all grain. The more I lurked around here, and read more threads I started to realize that you don't need a ton of expensive equipment, or a degree in chemistry to be able to do AG. If you are already extract brewing, are happy with how your beers are turning out, and have an interest in adding a little more work to your brew day, then it is time to go all grain. I just made the switch on my 4'th batch.
 
TwoHeadsBrewing said:
If you are interested in going all grain...just GO! I know a few people that NEVER did extract batches and their beer is great. You need to make sure to read and reread some good books on all grain brewing until you are comfortable with the process. After that, it's really just buying the correct equipment for the Mash/Lauter process. If you like taking your time and crafting a delicious beverage, and at the same time learning how to make beer in the traditional way, all grain brewing is the way to go.

I brewed 5-6 batches of extract before jumping into all grain brewing. It was an easy transition, and only cost me $25 to upgrade from my extract setup. I took an old 5g cooler, and put in a ball valve and SS braid for the lautering "manifold". I already used a turkey fryer kit for my boil kettle, and for all-grain I simply forced it to do double duty as my hot liquor tank (HLT). I used my bottling bucket to collect the first runnings from the mash, then transfered those to the boil kettle after I had made my last sparge water addition. From that point forward, it's just like extract...boil->hops->chill->pitch.
DSCF0113.JPG


Braid:
DSCF0117.JPG


It's coming up to a year since I brewed my first batch, and I've moved on to 10 gallons batches and am loving it. Buying a grain mill with some fellow brewers was the best purchase I've made. Coupled with buying bulk 50# bags of grain for $30-45/bag is a real pleasure. I can now brew a 10 gallon batch of my house ale for $18.93 for the ingredients. Even for my more expensive recipe it rarely gets above $30 for a 10 gallon batch. With extract I was paying $28-35 for a 5 gallon batch. All grain works for me, and sounds like it would work for you too. It's a bit of a step up in equipment, but it allows more flexibility with recipe formulation, better beer(given good process), and it's cheaper per batch.


The three biggest cons I see with all grain are:
1) $$$ for equipment, but this depends a lot upon YOU. You can go and buy an 1/2 barrel automated setup for $6500, or spend a modest $50-100 for a nice 5 gallon system.
2) Time. Extract is faster because you don't have to heat sparge water or perform a 60-90 minute mash and sparge. But if you like brewing, and like taking your time with makin beer, this is a non-issue.
3) Space. Again, this depends a lot on you and whether you brew inside, outside or in the garage. Many people do all grain on their stovetops, but this would never work for me, or I should say SWMBO. Lucky for me I've got a garage I can take over with my brewing equipment.

Well that's got to be my longest post evar! Hopefully you can glean some information from it, and make an informed decision about your brewing future. Cheers to you, and cheers to all homebrewers! :mug:
Click to expand...

Hey TwoHeads, Are you using the same MLT for your 10g batches? I like that MLT, I'm looking to get a new one and that one looks about right. How much grain can you get in there and what's your grain/water ratio?
 

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