Pappy`s Pub Cider - Award Winner!

I am about 4 weeks into primary and still bubbling and I started with a OG of 1.128. This stuff is going to be strong!

BrettNic said:

I am about 4 weeks into primary and still bubbling and I started with a OG of 1.128. This stuff is going to be strong!

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Mine was sitting in primary for about the same length (although my OG was 1.096). I let mine sit in secondary for another 37 days and ended up with an ABV around 12.5%

I had a bottle a few weeks ago and it was really good. I'm letting it sit for a while longer though before I open another one to see if the hotness mellows out even more.

Have you guys used dextrose instead of table sugar? Curious if those two can be interchangeable?

Also does anyone know what would if anything, happen if I added a second different yeast strain a week or so into primary fermentation?

yankeroo said:

Have you guys used dextrose instead of table sugar? Curious if those two can be interchangeable?

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Can't say that i have used dextrose instead of cheap ole table sugar.
I can't see why you couldn't sub it, but also can't see why you would want to.
It will change the flavor and imho for the worse, I've had a cider with dextrose added and didn't care for it myself.

yankeroo said:

Also does anyone know what would if anything, happen if I added a second different yeast strain a week or so into primary fermentation?

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I'm not sure as again, I've not done this but have read something about EC-1118 being a `killer yeast` which will overpower other yeasts placed into the must.

Alternatively if you want to alter the yeast profile you could do say a belgian style yeast 1rst and then a week or so into primary fermentation then put in the EC-1118.
This would give a week to get those belgian bannana esters going and all that.
Give it a try and let us know how it turns out.

Paps said:

I can't see why you couldn't sub it, but also can't see why you would want to.
It will change the flavor and imho for the worse, I've had a cider with dextrose added

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I ran out of table sugar and didn't have time to run out and grab some. I'm doing a 1 gallon batch so I did a pound of each.

As for the yeast I used s-05 and it doesn't seem to be bubbling as much as it should for how much sugar is in there....

Some people do staggered nutrient additions.
Some also do staggered sugar additions.
(generally for meads)
In theory those would also work with cider.
I haven't tried them myself as i'd rather not risk infection by opening the fermentor over and over. I take the lazy man approach and try to keep everything as simple as i possibly can.

The s-o5 should get you to the %12 mark with nutrient additions but probably not much beyond it. This is a very sweet product as is and if using yeasts that won't hit the %18 ABV mark i would suggest using less sugar.

-cheers

I recently made this recipe unknowingly..lol

I used 70% Appple Cider and 30% Pineapple Juice.
I put 5 Gallons of Juice mix into the carboy with 6 LBS of sugar. SG was 1.15.
Used 1118 and nutrient, pectic enzyme.
After 2 weeks fermentation had stopped and the FG was .999.
This should be around the 19.5% ABV according to the online Calculator.
I then added 4 lbs of sugar. After 2 weeks fermentation had NOT restarted.
So I racked to 4 1 gallon carboys (worked out perfectly considering the headspace left in the Primary Carboy and leaving the yeast cake). I had about 1/2 cup to give a taste test.
The Gravity after adding the other 4 lbs of sugar brought it back up to 1.005.
It is very nice. Still some apple flavor left and sweet enough without being too much.
I will let it sit in secondary for a couple of weeks and bottle and chill.

I started a version of this and have a question.

Only changes was 4 gallons and 8lbs of sugar.

Question is has anyone jacked a gallon of this? I was going to keg 3 gallons of it and applejack 1 gallon.

Namesake_Brewery said:

Question is has anyone jacked this?

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Yes.
It is suprisingly subtle.
Took 500-ml down to 200-ml if i remember right.
However finishing at about 18-20% ABV........
You don't really need it jacked.
{this is the part where i mention `moderation` so you don't curse me after you wake up hung over and sore from sticking your ding-ding in a light socket due to being ****faced drunk....or something like that.}

I'm not sure if it counts or not as it wasn't a BJCP event but this is now an award winning cider beating out about 20 other brews for a "Peoples choice award"
I'll add pics if i get access to them.

Congrats Paps!

I will be finally brewing this next week.

So just to summlarzie:

4-6 weeks in primary
3-4 weeks in secondary with 3 cinnamon sticks?

Has for bottle carbing - don't use any priming sugar correct? Any issues with over carbonation?

One more question: Did you ever figure out the ABV?

4-6 weeks in primary

yes

3-4 weeks in secondary with 3 cinnamon sticks?

yes, but i suggest longer

as for bottle carbing - don't use any priming sugar correct?

correct. I keg and suggest kegging as well.

One more question: Did you ever figure out the ABV?

Yes. it runs between 18-20 % ABV depending on what the FG hits.
( i know the yeast strains `advertised threshold isn't 20% but the hydrometer doesn't lie.)

oh, and thanks.

I'm wondering if I'm making this wrong... Yes, it's very potent, but it's more like rocket fuel as opposed to cider.

I've made this a few times and they all come out the same, even let the last batch sit for about 3 months waiting for it to mellow. Even having people sample it, they react as if they're sipping whiskey :cross:

Are you supposed to let this finish out at FG of 1, or should it be stopped way before?

Paps said:

4-6 weeks in primary


Yes. it runs between 18-20 % ABV depending on what the FG hits.
( i know the yeast strains `advertised threshold isn't 20% but the hydrometer doesn't lie.)

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Can you post some of your previous OG and FG readings you've had?

I have about 5.5 gallons fermenting right now that had an OG of 1.132. Although I used 5lbs table sugar, 2lbs brown sugar, 3 lbs honey, and 2lbs agave nectar.

spineapple said:

I'm wondering if I'm making this wrong... Yes, it's very potent, but it's more like rocket fuel as opposed to cider.

I've made this a few times and they all come out the same, even let the last batch sit for about 3 months waiting for it to mellow. Even having people sample it, they react as if they're sipping whiskey :cross:

Are you supposed to let this finish out at FG of 1, or should it be stopped way before?

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I have read higher fermentation temps tend to make it more like rocket fuel.

The Lalvin EC-1118 strain can ferment has low has 15C. Mine is in the 19-20C range.

seabrew8 said:

I have read higher fermentation temps tend to make it more like rocket fuel.

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Yes.....if you are getting `rocket fuel` you need to ferment cooler.
I'd suggest none higher than 66-F
With the cooler weather coming it would be a good idea to start batches now and enjoy them much later down the road.


As far as OG goes It's over 1.142
Often the FG lands around 1.020
Sometimes higher if i rush it.

This isn't cider or wine in any sense. This is prison hooch.

dmtaylor said:

This isn't cider or wine in any sense. This is prison hooch.

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Then that would be "Award winning prison hooch" to you.
But then again prisons don't do oak barrel aging like i do.
Course it would be out of style as at least 20% of your fermentables in prison hooch have to come from ketchup or fruit cups from what i've read somewhere on here.

Nice try but troll elsewhere buddy.

Paps said:

Then that would be "Award winning prison hooch" to you.
Nice try but troll elsewhere buddy.

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Sure. I have and I will.

If anyone else is interested in making something that doesn't taste like bad whiskey, follow me.

dmtaylor said:

follow me.

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Yes as you've won awards or had any of your recipe featured in the HBT top 10 ciders..........oh wait......you've done neither as you don't even have a recipe posted here.
Here...here's a bag-o-dix
go eat it.

Paps said:

Yes as you've won awards or had any of your recipe featured in the HBT top 10 ciders..........oh wait......you've done neither as you don't even have a recipe posted here.
Here...here's a bag-o-dix
go eat it.

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No, I haven't posted any "recipes" for "cider" here yet. HBT hasn't been a hangout for me until very recently as traffic on Northern Brewer has become really slow. Anyone interested can find 28 pages worth of trial & error and cider-related banter since 2007 here:

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/sea...t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

I'm not saying you or I do or do not deserve "HBT top 10 'ciders'" awards, but anyway...

Do what makes you happy.

"traffic on Northern Brewer has become really slow"

If it's the norm for hipsters on there trying to hijack others threads because they dissaprove of methods used such as Chaptalization in recipe then it doesn't suprise me that people are looking elsewhere.

"Anyone interested can find 28 pages worth of trial & error and cider-related banter"

Anyone interested can also look on the forums they are allready on for cider banter. People allready know this so if you aren't actually going to contribute something other than your opinion of my recipe that you haven't even made, please go back to your other forums where you and the hipsters frolick freely.

I'm not saying you or I should keep our noses out of other peoples business, but anyway...

Using different yeasts and different amounts of sugar (if any at all) is nothing new and there are plenty of other threads right here on HBT for talk of just that. This thread however is for a specific recipe for people whom don't want a watery tasting weak session cider. If somebody has a question regarding how to make it, i will answer them as i can or many other people whom are actually helpfull chime in as shown on the past 20 odd pages of this thread.

Come on there now fellows - my go to saying, "Whatever floats your boat". Or has bobby brown sang "Its my prerogative".

I'm having flashbacks to 3rd grade....

Hey Paps,
I don't post much but I am very grateful for your recipes and tips.
I use your recipe and have tweaked it to my taste (but not much I tell ya) but without your post and guidance, I could not enjoy what I do without your help.

Thanks,
Mike

Paps said:

Yes.....if you are getting `rocket fuel` you need to ferment cooler.
I'd suggest none higher than 66-F
With the cooler weather coming it would be a good idea to start batches now and enjoy them much later down the road.


As far as OG goes It's over 1.142
Often the FG lands around 1.020
Sometimes higher if i rush it.

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That's probably my issue then! Been fermenting in 72+ temps. Will move to my basement and see how it works out

Has anyone found that there cinnamon sticks sink after 10 or so days fermenting? I put 3 sticks in my carboy after 10 days and they all sunk.

Probably because there are just cheap walmart brand..

Lastly. does anyone find the cider smells like sulfur even have over 10 days fermenting?

seabrew8 said:

Has anyone found that there cinnamon sticks sink after 10 or so days fermenting? I put 3 sticks in my carboy after 10 days and they all sunk.

Probably because there are just cheap walmart brand..

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Yes, they will all sink eventually. The brand has nothing to do with it. It usually happens between week 3-4 in secondary when i add them. Your mileage may vary. I usually take it as a sign that it is time to keg it.

seabrew8 said:

Lastly. does anyone find the cider smells like sulfur even have over 10 days fermenting?

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Super strong sulfur smells can be an indication of `unhappy yeast`
possibly due to high temperature or lack of nutrients.
Try to remember that during fermentation the temps of the drink may be 5-10 F warmer than the ambient temp of the chamber it is in (w/e that chamber may be) try to keep it under 70-f (the actual liquid temps) and it wouldn't hurt to add some yeast nutrient/energiser of course providing proper sanitation practices.

I've seen visible airlock activity 6 weeks after pitching the yeast, activity at 10 days in is nothing to worry about.

Hope this helps.

I wanted to say thank you very much for this foolproof recipe. We have made cider in the past but always had problems with back sweetening the cider to our taste. Your recipe takes all of these variables out of making a great hard cider. Only problem is the super high alcohol content. We can't drink as much as we want before feeling it. I guess that is a problem, I am not sure.

Similar to how one might mix a Rum shot with coca-cola,
You coould mix it 50% - 50% with apple juice the moment you drink it.
That would take it closer to around 10% ABV which will still sneak up on you,
Just not as fast so you could drink more than 3 cups without falling over.

==========================================================
Edit...it doesn't "HAVE" to be apple juice you mix/cut it with
you could use 7-up for a bubbly beverage,
or also you could use other juices for a wider variety of flavors.
Cherry juice,pomegranite,blueberry,peach,pineappleect,ect.
Experiment,have fun and enjoy.

I've been adding good vanilla extract at bottling, 1/2tsp per gallon, to start. It mellows it out and gives good finish. I've also tried split beans in secondary, with good results.

Next I'm going to give Oak or Apple wood chunks, a try in secondary, I'm thinking, start small and add more if needed, any advice?

Yes, start small with the oak chips. It's easy to overdo it with new chips.
When i do the vanilla extract thing i do about 3.5 oz per gallon but i do tend to favor bold/intense flavors vs subtle ones.Cinnamon in secondary is great as well plus combine that with the vanilla and it's out of this world.

Great recipe! Followed just as written, finished exactly as written. Just bottled 5 gal batch last night. Put 3 sticks cinnamon in during secondary. Will be doing this recipe again.
Thanks!

When added apple juice concentrate how much per gallon. This is going to be in the secondary, I was going to add cinnamon sticks to it

looksupatclouds25 said:

When added apple juice concentrate how much per gallon. This is going to be in the secondary, I was going to add cinnamon sticks to it

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I'm not sure what you are asking.
I don't use any "apple juice concentrate" at any time for this recipe.
Back-sweetening isn't needed as this will finish around 1.020/1.030
If you are not starting with regular juice, just follow the instructions
on the package of your AJC.

I think i may have a problem here. I got steady bubbling for a week, then no bubbles. I took and shook my carboy and got bubbles for a few more days. This got me to secondary. I racked to secondary and cut up a banana for yeast nutrient and i got nothing. Just a little fizzing, no bubbling at the air lock.

It definitely doesn't taste done. Should I add more yeast? Ideas?

Take a gravity reading, it will tell you. Sometimes it takes a bit to take off again after racking it, but it may just need to settle out yeast.

Sometimes you can increase the temps to get the yeast moving again.
then drop it back down, SLOWLY.
Adding more yeast can help and IMHO can't hurt.
Got any photos of it?

Paps said:

Sometimes you can increase the temps to get the yeast moving again.
then drop it back down, SLOWLY.
Adding more yeast can help and IMHO can't hurt.
Got any photos of it?

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As a matter of fact, I do. Check this out.