Why is crushing your own better than pre-crushed?

Can someone explain this to me?

Last time I ordered from Northern Brewer, I ordered the specific amounts I needed: 1/4 of this, 1/2 of that, etc. So it's all crushed to order. How is their crusher less efficient than one I'd buy on my own?

You can set yours finer, if you want to squeeze efficiency.

For me, the bigger issue is being able to buy a big bag of Maris Otter and grind right before I brew, so that it stays as fresh as possible (and save money on base malt, potentially). Specialty grains, too, will stay fresh longer if they're uncrushed. If you want to keep a grain inventory, a mill is pretty much a requirement, IMO.

Freshness...

It usually costs a few cents extra per pound for the pre-milled stuff, as opposed to the unmilled grain, which would require milling it yourself.

because guys like to play with toys that operate with electric motors

What they said.

I buy 2-row in 50 lb. bags and specialty grains that I use a lot in 5 lb. bags b/c it's much cheaper that way. I crush just what I need at brew time.

And, it is kinda fun to do!

Plus if you buy it pre-crushed and it comes in one bag, you have no idea if they really gave you what you ordered, or if the amounts you asked for are correct.

If you buy grains un-milled, at least you can verify the amount for your recipe before you mill it. It makes replicating a winning recipe much easier not to mention you KNOW exactly what and how much went into making your brew.

EdWort said:

Plus if you buy it pre-crushed and it comes in one bag, you have no idea if they really gave you what you ordered, or if the amounts you asked for are correct.

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I guess it depends on the vendor. Midwest always mills to order and separates my grain orders regardless of how many small bags it requires.

They don't charge extra for milling.

I agree it is probably considered by frequent AG brewers to be a requirement, but it is a matter of prioritizing which equipment comes first.

For me right now? A chest freezer is much more of a priority than a mill. Once I get my chest set up...more cornies will be a priority...and then...maybe...that mill will be the priority.

Besides cost I don't really see the up side unless you get a bad crush from your HBS. AHB does fine by me, I get good efficiency and I can order them and have the grains packed separately to ensure i got what I asked for. It is more expensive and I intend on getting a grain mill, but I'm in no hurry. An upside for me for crushing is that I can go to the Rogue brewery and pick up my grain from them if I wanted to.

As far as freshness is concerned, you really have to take into account how much you brew. I would go through a 50 pound sack in probably 6-8 months..I can't imagine AHB having grains sit around that long.

Dan

I usually measure and mill my own at the LHBS a day before I brew and have had great efficiency with their crush. The primary benefit I'm missing out on is the cost savings. My base grains would run about half of the cost if I ordered in bulk.

One thing to consider when deciding to mill your own is that malted grain and the flour it produces when you grind it are rich in all sorts of bacteria. You want to be careful to avoid milling in the same area that you're handling your post boil brew.

Yup. I've been ordering grain precrushed for a long time. I don't have an LHBS, so I pay shipping every time. So the more I can pack into one order (I get free shipping or a fixed low shipping rate, depending on where I shop), the less I pay in the long run. Plus, buying a 55 lb sack of grain is typically less expensive than buying a little bit at a time. Problem is, it'd take me awhile to go through the 80 lbs of grain that arrived on my doorstep today. If it were premilled, chances are that it would start to go stale before I finished it. This way, I can get the freshest malt possible without having to place (and pay for shipping on) an order every time I get the whim to brew.

Willsellout said:

Besides cost I don't really see the up side unless you get a bad crush from your HBS. AHB does fine by me, I get good efficiency and I can order them and have the grains packed separately to ensure i got what I asked for.

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Right, and pay the $6 for shipping for each order, and sit around and wait for it to get here. That's what I've been doing. Mostly, I'd try to order from Listermann because they have free shipping on orders over $35 for us easterners. But it was still a big pain, because if I got the last-minute itch to brew, I was constrained by what I happened to have onhand. Now that my Barley Crusher is arriving tomorrow, I'll be able to keep a bigger backstock of grain.

Plus if you buy it pre-crushed and it comes in one bag, you have no idea if they really gave you what you ordered, or if the amounts you asked for are correct.

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Or if you go into your local HBS to buy grain on a Friday, and the owner has been pulling taps of Dogfish pumpkin ale pints with the regulars, you might not get the exact amount of grains you were asking for.

On the upside, he might just be in the right state of mind to sell you a JSP mill for $40!

I have received some pretty bad pre-crushed grains before by mail which threw my mash efficiency way off and kind of ruined a couple batches of beer for me. Once it happens to you a couple times you start thinking about buying a mill. I still order pre-crushed but am extrememly selective who I get them from.

My LHBS is actually really great, I go in, weigh everything, crush it there (they have an electric mill that is set spot on) and tell them what I have in my bucket and they just ring me up. Base malts are $1-1.30 and specialty grains are $1.10-1.35...not too bad. I don't have space to store 55lb bags of grains...someday...

LHBS charges 1.69 lb for Maris Otter

I mill my own and pay .72 lb

I got the luxury that ColoradoXJ13 has. They'll even let me buy a 55# grain of Maris from them and come back and crush it with their mill later as I pop in to fill my specialty grain bill. A mill is about the last on my wishlist to get but all depends on your situation.

desertBrew said:

I got the luxury that ColoradoXJ13 has. They'll even let me buy a 55# grain of Maris from them and come back and crush it with their mill later as I pop in to fill my specialty grain bill. A mill is about the last on my wishlist to get but all depends on your situation.

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Now that you have that awesome rig, your priorities to crush grain will go up. Unless of course your LHBS is really close.

Mine isn't, so it is a PITA to go back and forth.

I try to always have enough hops and specialty malts to be able to brew pretty much anything at the spur of the moment. Grain supplies are running short right now but this summer I hope to get in on some kind of bulk grain order.

For me, it's an 80 mile round trip to the LHBS. That's something I don't want to do very often. However, I can get 110 lbs Maris Otter for $70, and it lasts me about 6 months. At that price, I can't afford not to mill my own..
As for the argument that the better mail order suppliers won't have malt hanging around for a long time, the barley is harvested once per year, and if you brew year round, some of it has been hanging around in a malted and/or unmalted state for about 1 year before it is used.

-a.

I suspect if I did AG all the time and brewed about 3 times as much, it would be worth while to get a crusher. But for a batch a month, adding a crusher, storage bins and maintaining a supply of specialty grains just isn't worth it.

Dude said:

...Unless of course your LHBS is really close.

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I actually drive right past it on the way home from work but you're right, I still got to plan a little. We're investigating moving to a new office this coming July/Aug and "hopefully" it will be inconvenient for the LHBS which means we picked the place closer to my house. I gotta get a chest freezer + controller setup for my next $ spend. Friggen summer is on its way...

I have a mill and on top of the freshness and cost savings of being able to do it yourself, I find it to be quite relaxing, as my roller-mill is not motorized. It's kind of a calm before the storm. I find it adds another level of from-my-hands-came-beeridness...

If you get lucky enough to score on a few hundred pounds of grain (like I did) then having your own mill is a must. That way on Sat morning when it's time to brew I just go up to the brewshed and brew.....

Lately I've been brewing 10 gallon batches. I most likely will get a mill in the not so distant future.

I have a good source for Cargill 2-row that I can have delivered to my work. I will still need to go to the LHBS for specialty grains, hops and yeast from time to time but this should save me some bucks. I plan on keeping a small inventory of items for spur of the moment brew sessions.

I also would like to mess around with crushing my own to see if I can increase my efficiencies.

I brewed a hefe yesterday and also did my first decoct. It went well with a 73% efficiency but i think I could have done even better had the wheat malt been milled just a little more.

Evan! said:

Right, and pay the $6 for shipping for each order, and sit around and wait for it to get here. That's what I've been doing. Mostly, I'd try to order from Listermann because they have free shipping on orders over $35 for us easterners. But it was still a big pain, because if I got the last-minute itch to brew, I was constrained by what I happened to have onhand. Now that my Barley Crusher is arriving tomorrow, I'll be able to keep a bigger backstock of grain.

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Each side has it's downsides. Cost is the most prominent one with not crushing your own. Believe me, if I could justify having a crusher I would...but I brew once every couple months. As long as I plan ahead, I don't run into issues. I do pay more, but right now it's worth it for the quality of grains and crush I get from AHB. It also saves me time and with a new baby, time is an important commodity
I really hope you dig your BC...that's the one I'll get when it's time!


Dan

Willsellout said:

Each side has it's downsides. Cost is the most prominent one with not crushing your own. Believe me, if I could justify having a crusher I would...but I brew once every couple months. As long as I plan ahead, I don't run into issues. I do pay more, but right now it's worth it for the quality of grains and crush I get from AHB. It also saves me time and with a new baby, time is an important commodity
I really hope you dig your BC...that's the one I'll get when it's time!

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Yeah...I hear ya. If I only brewed every few months (the day will come when I too have kids), I wouldn't have spent the $130 on the BC. But as it stands, since I started brewing last July, I'm averaging 3.3 batches per month. So I thought it was about time to make it a little more cost-effective.

Plus, I have a local brewmaster with whom I trade my homebrew for yeast from his conicals. Hell, he'd give it to me, but it's nice to throw some brew his way. Anyway, he has a setup where the mill is across the building from the mash tun, so there's a flex-pipe that runs from the mill directly into the tun in the ceiling, and it's got an electric auger inside that transports the grain from the mill into the tun. Which means that he can (and is willing to) give me whatever grain I need, but since his mill outputs directly into his mash tun, he can't crush it for me. So this is an added benefit.

I'm excited about the barley crusher. It looks like a nice piece of equipment. I opened my big 55lb sack of Glen Eagles Maris Otter last night. So pretty!

my LHBS is 20 min away i just go over and pick up what i need for the day and there is no charge for milling there if i do it my self

Quick story, northern brewer would send me my grains seperate, crushed. Once though ( my last order from them ) the crush was TERRIBLE, I got the worst efficiency ever. Now that I have a crusher, I have complete control. I'll tell you, it was annoying as hell to have such a bad crash after waiting nine days for my order to get here (overseas).

if you look over at northern brewers forums, theres lots of talk about how the crush has been really poor over there.

I had the same problem with about 20#s of grains. THey reshipped them, but still. I didnt brew that weekend.

Willsellout said:

As far as freshness is concerned, you really have to take into account how much you brew. I would go through a 50 pound sack in probably 6-8 months..I can't imagine AHB having grains sit around that long.

Dan

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Actually if you think about it, from harvest to now all the grain has been stored....somewhere...

seefresh said:

Quick story, northern brewer would send me my grains seperate, crushed. Once though ( my last order from them ) the crush was TERRIBLE, I got the worst efficiency ever. Now that I have a crusher, I have complete control. I'll tell you, it was annoying as hell to have such a bad crash after waiting nine days for my order to get here (overseas).

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I remember that problem you had.

Oh one other thing...not sure if this has been mentioned....but...if you have a 50 lb sack of grain, you can pretty much brew on a whim (obviously as long as you have yeast and hops). No waiting, on-the-fly. That is one thing I love about owning a crusher.

OK...I went ahead and bought the damn CrankAndStein: http://crankandstein.com/cgm-bcc.htm

$154 shipped. Happy birthday to me.

Any reason you chose the Crankandstein over, say, the Barley Crusher? I think I'm about to replace my mill and would like you guy's input...

Cheesefood said:

OK...I went ahead and bought the damn CrankAndStein: http://crankandstein.com/cgm-bcc.htm

$154 shipped. Happy birthday to me.

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Yay! Good for you! You'll be happy!

John Beere said:

Any reason you chose the Crankandstein over, say, the Barley Crusher? I think I'm about to replace my mill and would like you guy's input...

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I chose the BarleyCrusher b/c they were running a special on it and, at the time, it was the only option that didn't require any modifications to hook your power drill to it. Looks like now, the CrankAndStein has a similar model.

I think you can't go wrong with either mill!

Chimone said:

if you look over at northern brewers forums, theres lots of talk about how the crush has been really poor over there.

I had the same problem with about 20#s of grains. THey reshipped them, but still. I didnt brew that weekend.

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THat is exactly who I was alluding to in my earlier post. I still buy gear from them, but i am done with their pre-crushed grains.

http://www.crankandstein.com/cgm-bcc.htm
http://www.barleycrusher.com/barleycrusher.php

Bigger rollers and more adjustment on the CrankAndStein. Similar prices on both.

After looking the Crankandstein over, I'm feelin you... seems like a solid product. I actually didn't realize it utilized a 3rd roller...

John Beere said:

After looking the Crankandstein over, I'm feelin you... seems like a solid product. I actually didn't realize it utilized a 3rd roller...

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I don't think my model has the third roller.

my crankandstein gets here tomorrow :rockin:


I think im going to keep MO and Pils for my grains too. I thought about 55 lbs of carapils, but......maybe thats a bit much



ok question though.....

I dont really feel like going out and buying another set of feeler gauges. Ive read that .039 is somewhere between the thickness of a credit card and a CD. Any truth to this?

Ok, just tried out the new mill......and

WOW

the husks are still whole, so Im not really worried about them that much. But the grains are pulverized! This is it's virgin run so lets see what kind of efficiency boost I get. I dont have feeler gauges, but the gap is just bigger than a credit card, but smaller than a CD


Im going to break out the hydrometer for this one. Normally Im at 68-72% efficiency. ill keep you guys updated on what I extract from these grains. Im brewing the blonde tonight which should be 1.044 OG. So we'll see how she does...........