Vanilla Bean Experimentation Time!

Hey all, so I was at a wedding this past weekend, and the wedding favours the couple gave out was a packet of 3 Tahitian vanilla beans. My mind immediately went to using them in brewing (naturally), and at the end of the wedding I went around and picked up all the leftovers.

I ended up with 51 vanilla beans (give or take a few), which means I want to do some experimentation! So I'm looking for ideas on what to do... I want to extract the vanilla into alcohol before adding to beer, so let's start there. From the little research I have done so far I found that the FDA apparently regulates the commercial extraction of vanilla to using what works out to ~6 beans/cup of 35% alcohol. I figure 40% will fine for my purposes.

I have 16oz mason jars, some medium plus French oak spirals, and will go and buy whatever liquor I need.

As I get ideas, I'll add them to the list below. If you have an idea, back it up with a reason for doing it and how you envision the resulting product being used in brewing.

Vanilla Extraction Ideas

• 6 beans in 1 cup vodka (might double)
• 6 beans in 1 cup bourbon (might double)
• 6 beans in 1 cup white/light rum
• 2 beans in 1 cup Maker's Mark + Oak (might play with the ratios)

I will also consider mead-based suggestions Haven't made any meads yet, but I have 12# of honey in the closet waiting as well...

Stouts!

OK, yes that is a type of beer I can add the vanilla to.... but I'm more looking for ways to extract it first

I think just split and scrape them and drop them in the secondary. Alcohol will act as a solvent.

oldschool said:

I think just split and scrape them and drop them in the secondary. Alcohol will act as a solvent.

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i made a vanilla stout recently and this is what i did,i "dry hopped" the beer with them, its still in the fermenter at the moment,has been for about 5 weeks, and it tastes really good, a pleasant mild vanilla flavour, i used 3 beans in 40 litres(11g i think)

after this experiment i wouldn't bother soaking in alcohol, they keep for quite a while in an airtight jar, having said that i suppose you could make your own vanilla flavoured spirits, dump a couple in a bottle of vodka or rum or whatevers your poison

Part of the reason I want to extract the flavour is so that I can dose the beer until the level is just right. No guess work up front as to how many beans to soak and for how long. I feel it's just more controlled that way, and better for consistent results in the long run.

I'm not too worried about the beans going bad, the alcohol soak is only for extraction purposes.

Place 8oz Maker's Mark, 2 oz med toast oak chips and 2 cut-up vanilla beans in a pint sized mason jar. Let sit sit for 2 weeks. Add to kegged beer. Enjoy.

I don't care for Bourbon or oak at all but I have a coworker who love's it. I add this to Haus Pale Ale then bottle. He get's it all and then reimburses me generously for the ingredients.

Thanks Shelly, is this something you've done a few times? Just wondering how the strength of the resulting flavours are.

I've done it twice. The first time I had 3 vanilla beans and let it sit almost 2 months. The oak and the vanilla were too much. But it went into an Imperial Haus Pale Ale and turned out good. Second time around was 2 weeks and 2 vanilla beans and it went into a regular Haus Pale Ale and was much better. I'm surprised at how fast the bourbon extracts the oak and vanilla flavors. Whatever the bourbon-vanilla-oak tastes like before you add it to the beer is pretty much the same way it tastes after you add it to the beer, just toned down quite a bit.

If you're experimenting with different alcohol extractions, you should try rum as well.

Good idea on the rum... but what kind?

I'd probably do a light rum or a gold rum. Spiced rums and dark rums might overpower the vanilla. If you're going to add oak you can probably use white rum, since I think gold and dark rums are made by barrel aging.

FWIW, one of Avery's barrel-aged beers was Black Tot - an Oatmeal Imperial Stout aged in rum barrels. It was amazing.

oldschool said:

I think just split and scrape them and drop them in the secondary. Alcohol will act as a solvent.

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I've made two stouts that I used vanilla bean in, and the second one got a nasty infection. The only thing that I can think of is that I picked something off of the cutting board, even though I inspected the crap and sanitized the crap out of it.

I've never had a problem with sterilization, so I'm kind of figuring this is the only place it could have arisen from. I'm going to try to soak it in a cup of vodka during primary. I'm liking this idea. I don't think the alcohol in the batch is enough always to kill it. My stout was around 6.6%abv. Still got the "alien eyeball" infection (brett?)

Things I'd do with 51 vanilla pods:

Vanilla vodka for drinks. Throw about 5 Pods cut and scraped into a liter. Use Stoli, cheap and clean. No need to get the really good stuff unless you're gonna drink it straight. Also, don't get the cheap stuff. That **** will always taste like lighter fluid.

Bourbon, rum, and Irish, the same. Although the irish I'd go with a small bottle, since I'd be putting it in my coffee. Little vanilla goes a long way for me.

BAKE. Make your wife/gf/bartender creme brulee. (talk about panty-grease!) Just another reason to bust out the blowtorch.
Icecream. Hell's yeah. You'll never get better vanilla ice cream than with real vanilla.

Extract for cooking: two vanilla beans in a pint of vodka. Let it sit for a month, then strain.

Beer: Vanilla porter, vanilla creme ale, vanilla espresso stout, vanilla pliny the elder. Okay, maybe not pliny. But you get the idea. Adding oak to some should be good as well.

I'm debating whether a vanilla wheat beer would be good, or be like drinking cake. But I like cake, so I'd probably try it.

B

hedonist91 said:

I've made two stouts that I used vanilla bean in, and the second one got a nasty infection. The only thing that I can think of is that I picked something off of the cutting board, even though I inspected the crap and sanitized the crap out of it.

I've never had a problem with sterilization, so I'm kind of figuring this is the only place it could have arisen from. I'm going to try to soak it in a cup of vodka during primary. I'm liking this idea. I don't think the alcohol in the batch is enough always to kill it. My stout was around 6.6%abv. Still got the "alien eyeball" infection (brett?)

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Infection is always a possibility. I didn't say that the alcohol would kill the yeast/bacteria. I meant that the alcohol in the beer would act as a solvent by picking up the vanilla.

oldschool said:

Infection is always a possibility. I didn't say that the alcohol would kill the yeast/bacteria. I meant that the alcohol in the beer would act as a solvent by picking up the vanilla.

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AHHH ok sorry i misunderstood you. Gotcha.

bad coffee said:

Things I'd do with 51 vanilla pods:



BAKE. Make your wife/gf/bartender creme brulee. (talk about panty-grease!) Just another reason to bust out the blowtorch.
Icecream. Hell's yeah. You'll never get better vanilla ice cream than with real vanilla.
B

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HAHHHAHAHA Panty-grease! Even SWMBO loved taht one!

She should try my Creme brulee.

What do you think about boiling the vanilla beans in water to sterilize them before adding them together with the water? Is there any reason not to do this?

You will boil away a lot of the aromatics. Go with vodka. Split the bean in half the long way and soak.

Wow... two beans is like $6 around here. 51 free beans?

/jealous

In Indonesia you can get tons of them for basically nothing. So, I did.
If you're ever in Bali or otherwise in the area, go to a market and you won't even want to barter they're so cheap.

I was just thinking, I've got a sick garden. Can I grow vanilla beans, even inferior ones in NY? Also, seeing as how indonesia, madagascar, and bali are the places where they're from, I wonder if there is an increased risk of bacteria. Is that where they're from? I guess I could google all this. Nah, I'll just ask all of you guys.

Short answer: no.

http://www.essortment.com/home/gardenplantsgr_syjg.htm

You need to make an artificial tropical environment, which an outdoor NY garden is not going to fit.

I just launched my vanilla secondary using hawaiian dark rum. I hope the ~30 minutes in rum was enough to kill any nasties, but that's all the time I had.

This is a really strong stout because I overestimated my liquid volume, so the three vanilla beans went in together with an extra 500 ml of boiled water. Not a ton I know, but I didn't have time to cool too much and didn't want to kill all my remaining yeast just yet.

'spose I'll bottle in another couple weeks with some priming sugar and see how it goes. 3 vanilla beans in a 16L batch.

I was able to pickup some vanilla beans from a brew club meeting a few weeks ago. I've got about 16 of them. So far I took 3 of them and sliced them open down the center and put them in an oxycleaned>starsanned white labs vial and filled it up with Johnnie Walker Green (It's what I had in my cabinet).

I have a porter recipe from Brewmaster's Warehouse, that I wanted to add vanilla to. So next month when I do it, I'll toss in the whole vial into a secondary or dump the JWG into a corny and leave the vanilla beans in a hop/sock/ball.

Any results yet?
I have a few tests that would be very interesting to me.
1. How much different is the real bean taste Vs. real extract or imitation extract? I don't know if you have it around but I blind taste would be interesting. And also a blind tasting spiked in beer would be the real test. That would be helpful to me to know if the whole soaking real beans is worth it.
2. How does the flavor (strength and taste) of extraction change with time. Taste 2 days, 4 days, 1 week, 2 week, 1 month .... This would be nice to know if it is worth waiting for 2 months for extraction or if 2 weeks give you the same results.
3. How does extraction change in spirits Vs. the beer. (Since you already have small jars of spirits, try some small jars of beer). This could tell you if the spirit soaking is necessary or if you can use a small portion of the beer and then add it back.

I bottled mine last night, after over a month of primary and secondary fermentation, and it already tasted amazing.
Real vanilla beans will taste different, just from what I tasted last night. I have cooked with vanilla beans and vanilla extract, and the beans just take things to the next level. Unless something changes during the bottle conditioning, I believe this is true for beer as well. However, if I were paying 10$ per bean I would think twice. My beans cost me a few pennies each in Indonesia, so of course I would use them.
I did only an hour or so in rum before adding the beans to the secondary, and it seems to have turned out great.

I know one week is not long enough in the bottle, but I couldn't resist. Opened one 30 seconds ago and it is amazing. Ambrosia. Best thing ever.
Made it with a kit stout and malt extract combined with maybe some fuggles hops and the 3 vanilla beans in the secondary. Morgan's I believe, Dockside stout or something like that, with it's "Masters Malts".

I have another question - I have another bunch of vanilla beans, which I would like to use to make stout in the future, but those beans aren't getting any fresher I am sure.
Should I store them in jars of high-alcohol rum (like 151), in preparation for later addition, or would I be better off keeping them in their own jar, which is pretty airtight?
In terms of time, I am thinking of making the beer this coming december, january, february, march, etc.

Edit: Also, I can't make the beer now, because I am moving across the world in the next couple months.

I've actually not had time to do anything with my beans. They've been sitting in my fridge... I've been checking for signs of mold and decay, but they look OK so far. Storing them in even vodka will keep them relatively germ free, and also extract all the flavour out for your use

afsjoiwejio said:

What do you think about boiling the vanilla beans in water to sterilize them before adding them together with the water? Is there any reason not to do this?

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I'd stay away from that, for fear of obliterating the flavors. I'm no chemist, but I think it might drive off some of the phenols. It might not be the best way to get the flavor out of the bean.

Give it a shot! Let us all know! Just do it with some water and throw it in some sort of drink. I wouldn't waste a whole batch on it.

I once was a sort of chemist, and my thoughts are as follows:
A prolonged boil will drive off the flavors. However, placing the beans for a moment in boiling water and then quickly cooling it down should have minimal ill effect. One can further refine the process by placing a device on top of the boiling pot, such as a lid or a distillation column of some kind if one is fancy, to capture the vapors and return them to the vanilla solution.
This should achieve foolproof sterilization without flavor loss. Just thought of it. Next time I make this delicious vanilla stout (probably late Nov/early Dec), I will give it a try!

One thing I commonly like to do with vanilla beans is to split a couple and put them in a container of sugar. After a few weeks, it picks up the most wonderful flavor from the beans (plus you can keep adding sugar and replenish for quite some time). Uses for it are practically unlimited.

Taking it back to brewing, here is a thought... If you bottle, you could always make up a batch of vanilla bottling primer. Whether it is dextrose, dried malt extract, or sugar, the principal would be the same. Just get a dedicated container, add your type of sugar to it, place a couple of split beans in there, and let it sit for a bit.

Hell, you could probably brand it and sell it as some sort of "Stout Bottling Conditioner" and make a fortune. Plus, I only expect a ten percent commission.