Difference between Lagers and Ales. Taste wise that is!

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bmckee56

bmckee56

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Can anyone explain to me what I can ultimately expect from a Lager and an Ale as far as taste differences go. I have brewed quite a few Ales to date, but never attempted a Lager as I do not have the equipment or facilities to do so. However it is getting cooler/colder outside, so I am looking into the possibility of putting together my first one.

I drank Coors Light for many years and never imagined I would enjoy anything else, but times and tastes do change.

So what are the significant taste diferences between a Lager and an Ale?

Salute! :mug:
 
I don't think I know off the top of my head -- but I do know Coors Light is craptastic, no offense. I actually started drinking Craft Brews a few years ago, and over the past month I have been drinking nothing but! I bought a 6 pack of Molson Ice -- my old go to beer... Tasted like crap! No flavor and very light feeling. Finally finished the 6 pack, however, and popped a Sam Adams Winter Lager... WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!!
 
bmckee56 said:
Can anyone explain to me what I can ultimately expect from a Lager and an Ale as far as taste differences go. I have brewed quite a few Ales to date, but never attempted a Lager as I do not have the equipment or facilities to do so. However it is getting cooler/colder outside, so I am looking into the possibility of putting together my first one.

I drank Coors Light for many years and never imagined I would enjoy anything else, but times and tastes do change.

So what are the significant taste diferences between a Lager and an Ale?

Salute! :mug:
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assuming you are not trolling, and have not ever drank a lager or an ale, I am having trouble with your question. Simply go to your nearest bar/pub and do a test between the two. decide for yourself........
 
Sudbuster said:
assuming you are not trolling, and have not ever drank a lager or an ale, I am having trouble with your question. Simply go to your nearest bar/pub and do a test between the two. decide for yourself........
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It's pretty obvious he's not trolling.

Put simply, a lager will be a bit more flavorless than an ale. Definitely less hop flavor, but it will usually have a clean and crisp taste.

I don't mean to knock lagers by saying they have less flavor, but it's sort of true. An ale is the more complex of the two.

Of course, just as there are many different kinds of ales, there are many different kinds of lagers, too. But the above outlines the differences between the two at the most basic level.
 
I think characterizing lagers as being less hoppy or flavorful is incorrect. A doppelbock is hardly lacking in flavor, and there are plenty of imperial pilsners and similar styles out there that are very hoppy lagers.
 
weirdboy said:
I think characterizing lagers as being less hoppy or flavorful is incorrect. A doppelbock is hardly lacking in flavor, and there are plenty of imperial pilsners and similar styles out there that are very hoppy lagers.
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That's the problem inherent in comparing the two styles. Within the ale category, think of how different a stout is from, say, an India pale ale. And you've already pointed out how different the various styles of lager can be.

As a whole, though, I think it is fair to say that ales typically have more pronounced flavors than lagers do.

Again, it's a bit unfair to try to compare the two when there are so many "sub-styles," bet there it is.
 
If you split a batch of wort, lager half with a typical lager yeast and ferment the rest with a clean, neutral ale yeast, the main difference is you will finish drinking the ale before the lager is ready.

Think of lagers as styles, not a whole different beverage.
 
Handle said:
Put simply, a lager will be a bit more flavorless than an ale. Definitely less hop flavor, but it will usually have a clean and crisp taste.
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Which has more hop flavor, a Pilsener or a Scottish Ale?

The difference is that Ales have "ale like" esters and lagers don't. As a consequence, lagers have a more clean display of hop and malt flavors, to the extent they exist in the product.
 
American Light Lagers are tasteless. In general terms, a lager displays little to no yeast derived characters like ales do. No fruity esters, phenols, high alcohols, diacetyl etc. A good lager can be a beautiful thing. Sadly, most peoples perception of lager is limited to category 1A in the BJCP style guidelines.

In reality, there are 5 categories of lagers (as recognized by the BJCP). Included in those 5 categories are 17 different styles. Not too shabby considering brewing lagers dates back only to the late 1700's to early 1800's. There are even more if you count hybrid beers like California Common, Kolsch, Altbier, and Cream Beer.
 
Edcculus said:
American Light Lagers are tasteless. In general terms, a lager displays little to no yeast derived characters like ales do. No fruity esters, phenols, high alcohols, diacetyl etc. A good lager can be a beautiful thing. Sadly, most peoples perception of lager is limited to category 1A in the BJCP style guidelines.

In reality, there are 5 categories of lagers (as recognized by the BJCP). Included in those 5 categories are 17 different styles. Not too shabby considering brewing lagers dates back only to the late 1700's to early 1800's. There are even more if you count hybrid beers like California Common, Kolsch, Altbier, and Cream Beer.
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And a lot of baltic porters and foreign/export stouts are lagers too.
 
Handle said:
Put simply, a lager will be a bit more flavorless than an ale. Definitely less hop flavor, but it will usually have a clean and crisp taste.
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You've never had a Vienna Lager, or a Maibock or an Octoberfest, or a Dark American Lager, a Munich Dunkel or a Schwarzbier have you?

Or even any lager beyond a BMC version of one. Or done a taste test between a Corn adjuncted macro and a rice adjuncted one?

Just like with ales there are many many many flavor expressions from extremely neutral tasting and crisp (like a Bud Light) or one even dryer like a Japanese Sapparo to something like a Schwarzbier that has as complex a dark grain bill as any stout or porter, but simple less body then it's ale counterpart.

bmckee56, your question is sort of as difficult as describing the color red to a blind man, or Jazz to a deaf one.

Remilard sort of gets closer to specifics here;

The difference is that Ales have "ale like" esters and lagers don't. As a consequence, lagers have a more clean display of hop and malt flavors, to the extent they exist in the product.
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Though if lager yeasts all produced the same clean/neutral tastes there wouldn't be so many varieties. There are subtle characteristics between many lager strains.

This list should give you an idea.

WYeast 2007 Pilsen Lager Yeast High 71-75% 48-56
Comments: A classic American pilsner strain, smooth, malty palate. Ferments dryand crisp.

WYeast 2035 American Lager Yeast Medium 73-77% 48-58
Comments: Bold, complex and aromatic, good depth of flavor characteristics for a variety of lager beers.

WYeast 2042 Danish Lager Yeast Low 73-77% 46-56
Comments: Rich, dortmund-style, crisp, dry finish. Soft profile accentuates hop characteristics

WYeast 2112 California Lager Yeast High 67-71% 58-68
Comments: Particularly suited for producing 19th century-style West Coast beers. Retains lager characteristics at temperatures up to 65 degrees F, and produces malty, brilliantly-clean beers.

WYeast 2124 Bohemian Lager Yeast High 69-73% 48-58
Comments: A Pilsner yeast from the Weihenstephen. Ferments clean and malty with rich residual maltiness in full gravity pilsners.

WYeast 2206 Bavarian Lager Yeast Medium 73-77% 48-58
Comments: Used by many German breweries to produce rich, full-bodied, malty beers. Good choice for Bocks and Dopplebocks.

WYeast 2247 European Lager Yeast Low 73-77% 46-56
Comments: Clean dry flavor profile often used in aggressively hopped pilsner. Mild aromatics, slightly sulfur production, dry finish.

WYeast 2272 North American Lager Yeast High 70-76% 52-58
Comments: Traditional culture of North American and Canadian lagers and light pilsners. Malty finish.

WYeast 2278 Czech Pils Yeast Medium to High 70-74% 50-58
Comments: Classic pilsner strain from the home of pilssners for a dry, but malty finish. The perfect choice for pilsners and bock beers. Sulfer produced during fermentation dissipates with conditioning.

WYeast 2308 Munich Lager Yeast Medium 73-77% 48-56
Comments: A unique strain, capable of producing fine lagers. Very smooth, well-rounded and full-bodied. Benefits from temperature rise for diacetyl rest.

White Labs WLP800 Pilsen Lager Yeast Medium to High 72-77% 50-55
Comments: Classic pilsner strain from the premier pilsner producer in the Czech Republic. Somewhat dry with a malty finish, this yeast is best suited for European pilsner production.

White Labs WLP802 Czech Budejovice Lager Medium 75-80% 50-55
Comments: Pilsner lager yeast from Southern Czech Republic. Produces dry and crisp lagers, with low diacetyl production.

White Labs WLP810 San Francisco Lager High 65-70% 58-65
Comments: This yeast is used to produce the "California Common" style beer. A unique lager strain which has the ability to ferment up to 65 degrees while retaining lager characteristics. Can also be fermented down to 50 degrees for production of marzens, pilsners and other style lagers.

White Labs WLP820 Octoberfest/Märzen Lager Medium 65-73% 52-58
Comments: This yeast produces a very malty, bock like style. It does not finish as dry as WLP830. This yeast is much slower in the first generation than WLP830, so we encourage a larger starter to be used the first generation or schedule a longer lagering time.

White Labs WLP830 German Lager Medium 74-79% 50-55
Comments: This yeast is one of the most widely used lager yeasts in the world. Very malty and clean, great for all German lagers, pilsner, oktoberfest, and marzen.

White Labs WLP833 German Bock Lager Medium 70-76% 48-55
Comments: From the alps of southern Bavaria, this yeast produces a beer that is well balanced between malt and hop character. The excellent malt profile makes it well suited for Bocks, Dopplebocks, and Oktoberfest style beers. Very versatile lager yeast, it is so well balanced that is has gained tremendous popularity for use in Classic American style Pilsners. Also good for Helles style lager beer.

White Labs WLP838 Southern German Lager Medium 68-76% 50-55
Comments: This yeast is characterized by a malty finish and balanced aroma. It is a strong fermentor, produces slight sulfur, and low diacetyl.

White Labs WLP840 American Lager Medium 75-80% 50-55
Comments: This yeast is used to produce American style lagers. Dry and clean with a very slight apple fruitiness. Sulfur and diacetyl production is minimal.

White Labs WLP885 Zurich Lager Medium 70-80% 50-55
Comments: Available Sept-Oct:Swiss style lager yeast. With proper care, this yeast can be used to produce lager beer over 11% ABV. Sulfur and diacetyl production is minimal. Original culture provided to White Labs by Marc Sedam.

White Labs WLP920 Old Bavarian Lager Medium 66-73% 50-55
Comments: Available Sept - Oct:From Southern Germany, this yeast finishes malty with a slight ester profile. Use in beers such as Oktoberfest, Bock, and Dark Lagers.

White Labs WLP940 Mexican Lager Medium 70-78% 50-55
Comments: Available March-April:From Mexico City, this yeast produces clean lager beer, with a crisp finish. Good for Mexican style light lagers, as well as dark lagers.
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:mug:
 
I've always thought about the difference like this: Lagers are more about showcasing the malt & hops, while ales are more of a package deal, with the yeast character being a major part of the total flavor.

It surely isn't total flavor intensity or depth of flavor; go try a Pilsner Urquell, Budvar or Staropramen in Prague, and you'll see just how flavorful and intense a good lager can be, but most of that flavor is the malt & hops, not the yeast and fermentation conditions. (unless the lack of fermentation flavors counts)

Conversely, go to England, and try some cask ale. Equally intense and flavorful, but a significant part of the flavor comes from the yeast and fermentation conditions. In particular, try Whitbread ale in the bottle. It has a distinctive hint of bananas that's from the yeast. If you fermented the same wort with say.. 34/70, you wouldn't have that banana taste.

Some styles blur these distinctions, being lager-like ales (cream ale, Kolsch, Alt), or ale-like lagers (California Common), so I wouldn't recommend using them as your yardsticks in tasting.

I'd get something like a Carlsberg and something like a Boddington's, and see what the differences are side by side. They're both similar as far as hops go, and roughly the same color, but one's a lager and one's an ale.
 
Revvy said:
You've never had a Vienna Lager, or a Maibock or an Octoberfest, or a Dark American Lager, a Munich Dunkel or a Schwarzbier have you?
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I've had all of those but the Schwarzbier, which I'm eager to try.

I guess I shouldn't have said flavorless, as there are plenty of lagers I really enjoy. Remilard did say what I meant in a much more specific way.

That being said, I've already noted how difficult it is to compare such broad types as ales and lagers. I stand by my statement that lagers usually have a cleaner, crisper quality to them, while ales are usually a bit more complex due to the yeast-derived flavors.
 
Handle said:
That being said, I've already noted how difficult it is to compare such broad types as ales and lagers. I stand by my statement that lagers usually have a cleaner, crisper quality to them, while ales are usually a bit more complex due to the yeast-derived flavors.
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Trouble is, that doesn't work either, if you look at the list I posted, quite a few of those yeast provide flavor characteristics, while if you look at a list of ale yeast, you will see there are quite a few that are "clean" or "neutral" ale strains as well.

So yeah, this IS like jazz. :fro:
 
I'm looking through we stuff to see if anyone can make a better disticntion than we can...Palmer does about the same as us.

This one talks more in terms of techical differences.

The Difference Between Ales and Lagers
The first step in learning more about beer is to first understand that there are 2 basic categories of beer - Lagers and Ales. The difference between the 2 categories has nothing to do with alcohol content, bitterness, or color. In order to understand the difference between them we will have to get a little bit beer geeky and look at the brewing processes involved.

The difference between an ale and a lager comes down to 3 main differences in the brewing process which will be discussed below.

Yeast
Ales are made with "top-fermenting" strains of yeast which means that the yeast ferments at the top of the fermentation tank. Actually, they typically rise to the top of the tank near the end of fermentation. Ale yeasts also tend to produce chemicals called esters that can affect the flavor of the beer, depending on which strain of yeast is used. Note that in rare cases, there are some brewers that use "bottom-fermenting" yeasts to make ales.

Lagers use "bottom-fermenting" yeasts which sink to the bottom of the tank and ferment there. Because they collect on the bottom of the tank, they can often be reused. The yeast in lagers does not usually add much in the way of flavor. This typically comes from the other ingredients in the brew (malt, hops, etc).

Temperature and Time
Ale yeasts ferment best at warmer temperatures, usually around room temperature and up to about 75° farenheit. For this reason, they tend to mature and ferment faster than lagers.

Lagers ferment at colder temperatures (46-59°F). Historically, lager beers came from continental European countries like Germany, brewed where cooler temperatures are the norm. The word "lager" comes from the German word "lagern" which means "to store" which refers to the lagering process where the beer typically ferments over longer periods of time than ales. The combination of colder temperatures and bottom-fermenting yeast is responsible for the mild and crisp taste of most lagers.

Additional Ingredients
Ale recipes often contain a higher amount of hops, malt and roasted malts, hence they typically have a more prominent malty taste and bitterness.

Furthermore, brewers of ales seem to be more experimental than lager brewers and often add additional ingredients known as adjuncts to their brews. This can partially be attributed to the German 1516 beer purity law (Reinheitsgebot) which basically limits beer ingredients to malted grain, hops, yeast and water (preventing the use of adjuncts). From what I have seen, more lager brewers adhere to this law (particularly in Germany because they have to) than brewers of ales. The inception of the law was founded in a noble cause to prevent brewers from skimping on quality in order to save money by using cheaper ingredients. The problem is that the law is outdated and has stifled creativity in many European breweries that specialize in lagers and still follow this law.

Food For Thought
Well, don't waste too much time thinking about this... But, it is ironic that ales tend to be higher rated and get more respect than lagers despite the fact that it is usually more difficult and takes longer to brew a lager than an ale. Like many, I also prefer ales to lagers.
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GRR.....not much better.
 
So yeah, this IS like jazz
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The kind that doesn't go anywhere or the kind that sounds like it doesn't go anywhere?

How do you tell the difference between jazz and jazz musicians tuning their instruments?

??Tuning??
 
While it is true that lagers can enjoy the same amount of complexity as ales, the vast majority of the lagers produced are going to be cleaner and have lots less flavor. That's because most of it is light lager.

Revvy hit it right on the head. If you look, you can find lagers that depart from the masses and are darker and have lots of flavor. Usually they are lacking in certain flavor characteristics that ale usually have, but not always.

The biggest differences are.

Optimum temperature range of fermentation and therefor length of fermentation
and
Whether the yeast gather at the top of the fermenter, or the bottom.
 
This has been an informitive thread for me. I never knew that lager yeast didn't leave a profile like Ale Yeasts. I always thought of it as just a cleaner crisper beer, but then I've had Maibocks and dopplebocks and such, and it makes sense that they profile the malt and hop "cleaner". Maybe I'll try a Lager in a couple batches. I've got the fermenting fridge for it, just not tried it.
 
I've described Lagers as having a "cleaner" flavor, wherein you can taste the primary ingredients as the primary flavors.

Ales *generally* tend to have flavors not associated with hops, grain, and water. My example is a Hef that tastes of cloves and bananas, but has neither of which in them. My other example is the soft, almost buttery notes of my nut-brown ale (which is intentional and slight) coming from a warmer fermenting yeast.

Most lagers I drink I can *taste* the ingredients. Most ales are kind of like a vat of chili or spaghetti. The sum is greater than the ingredients.

I know there's clean fermenting yeast, and that there's exceptions to the rule, but that's how I describe it to people, and generally they seem to "get it".
 

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