Why is my beer better when bottled with oats?

maskednegator said:

This:

Is not a worthwhile double blind, as there was no control group. A double blind test would have to either have a control group comparing two un-oated beers, or have to have 3 glasses (1 from one group, 2 from the other) to test to see if one can identify a difference when there is none to be identified. On top of all that, you would have to do this individually, without discussion for there to be any merit to this experiment.

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Do you conduct a double blind experiment every time you make a change in your process to make sure that it's worth doing?

swankyswede said:

Do you conduct a double blind experiment every time you make a change in your process to make sure that it's worth doing?

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Last night my wife told me she likes Clos Du Bois Chardonnay better than Mondavi. I told her there is no way she can make that claim until she lets me do a double blind, blindfolded, flip-kick to fakey, through the legs, off the roof, nothing but net, test.

I guess I don't see why everyone is arguing over this. Everyone has different tastes. Some people think one thing tastes good while another person thinks it is crap. If there are people on here that have actually TRIED this and believe it produces better beer, so what?!?! How is hurting anyone that doesn't think it produces better beer? And if you're not a believer, try it for yourself.

Just my 2 cents.

When talking about good scientific process you have to have people who don't know what would influence the results. It sounds like in your processes you told people there were differences (bottling with oats) and they drew the conclusions based on this prejudice.

A true double blind would be two different tasting groups who know nothing about differences between the beers, just to judge and evaluate which one is best.

saq said:

When talking about good scientific process you have to have people who don't know what would influence the results. It sounds like in your processes you told people there were differences (bottling with oats) and they drew the conclusions based on this prejudice.

A true double blind would be two different tasting groups who know nothing about differences between the beers, just to judge and evaluate which one is best.

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That's the thing, we aren't talking about good scientific process. We're talking about more people trying this and seeing if they also notice a difference. It's a lot of effort to do a good scientific study so why not just try it (we're talking about a bottle or two out of each batch) and post the results. Then we can worry about making sure we're in an environmentally controlled room at sea level with a resting heart rate of 48BPM.

NorCalAngler said:

That's the thing, we aren't talking about good scientific process. We're talking about more people trying this and seeing if they also notice a difference. It's a lot of effort to do a good scientific study so why not just try it (we're talking about a bottle or two out of each batch) and post the results. Then we can worry about making sure we're in an environmentally controlled room at sea level with a resting heart rate of 48BPM.

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The reason is because people are really sheep that will just go along with the majority most of the time, without really forming their own objective opinion. If you tell them a result before they test it themselves, most of the time their result will agree with what you tell them, assuming they trust your opinion.

You seem to be suggesting that setting up a double-blind experiment is some really difficult, time-consuming process. It's not. In fact, I'd say it's probably easier to set that up than to convince a bunch of random strangers on the internet to do something they think is stupid.

Just find a few people who like beer, and have them do side-by-side comparisons of one bottled with oats, and one without, and an extra of either one thrown in for good measure. And most importantly, don't tell them anything about the beers before they tell you what they think.

weirdboy said:

The reason is because people are really sheep that will just go along with the majority most of the time, without really forming their own objective opinion. If you tell them a result before they test it themselves, most of the time their result will agree with what you tell them, assuming they trust your opinion.

You seem to be suggesting that setting up a double-blind experiment is some really difficult, time-consuming process. It's not. In fact, I'd say it's probably easier to set that up than to convince a bunch of random strangers on the internet to do something they think is stupid.

Just find a few people who like beer, and have them do side-by-side comparisons of one bottled with oats, and one without, and an extra of either one thrown in for good measure. And most importantly, don't tell them anything about the beers before they tell you what they think.

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I wish I could agree with you, but the setup you just suggested would have a dozen elitists all over it with twenty reasons why the results aren't scientifically valid. The problem with this thread is we have people that haven't tried it, already have a preconceived notion that it's snake-oil and are crapping on the whole thing making people reluctant to try it out.

I'm trying to balance that out a bit by asking people to just try it out and see if you also notice a difference. If you do, then we can take the next steps of renting out the Harvard Medical Center to run in-depth chemical analysis. I'm being facetious, but we all need to chill out and just see if we can get a small collection of brewers that think this may be worth investigating further. Afterall, we do have some educated guesses about how the oats could be absorbing compounds that contribute to the green beer phenomenon.

I am bottling a stout tonight - gonna try this with a couple bottles. I rack my beer onto blueberries, orange peel, all kinds of stuff in secondary... I can't see 5 oatmeal flakes destroying a bottle of beer... I also am skeptical that it will do much for the taste. However, in the spirit of experimentation I am anxious to try it.

NorCalAngler said:

Last night my wife told me she likes Clos Du Bois Chardonnay better than Mondavi. I told her there is no way she can make that claim until she lets me do a double blind, blindfolded, flip-kick to fakey, through the legs, off the roof, nothing but net, test.

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You forgot that you need to be at standard temperature and pressure, so your results are gonna be wayyyy off and scientifically invalid.

But srsly, this made me laugh out loud at my desk. People are getting all worked up about double-blind testing throwing 5 oat flakes in a bottle of beer, where they would take as gospel truth that a quarter pound of oat flakes in the mash will make your beer e*10^(42/pi) times better. Where's that double-blind test, hmmmmm?

Ok, I'm in, have a batch that should be going in the bottles in a couple of weeks. I'm going to try tossing some oats in 2 or 3 bottles just for ****s and giggles to see what happens.

swankyswede said:

You forgot that you need to be at standard temperature and pressure, so your results are gonna be wayyyy off and scientifically invalid.

But srsly, this made me laugh out loud at my desk. People are getting all worked up about double-blind testing throwing 5 oat flakes in a bottle of beer, where they would take as gospel truth that a quarter pound of oat flakes in the mash will make your beer e*10^(42/pi) times better. Where's that double-blind test, hmmmmm?

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You're comparing a scientifically understood phenomenon (oats in mash give more protiens and beta glucans, which contribute to slick mouthfeel) to a totally unsubstantiated post by some dude on the internet.

Frosty and I were just trying to let people in on something really interesting. Now everyone is just going out of their way to hate on it. You say that putting oats in a bottle or keg doesn't do anything good..then don't ever add hops to your keg, just put them in the mash. If you don't want to try it, or believe it, don't.

Hey, I for one think this is very interesting idea!!!! I'm all for a little bit of experimentation to see what happens with my beers, especially when I don't have to risk an entire 5 gallon batch to test

Granted I still have some reservations about the benefits, but that doesn't mean I won't give it a shot just to see how it turns out.

swankyswede said:

Do you conduct a double blind experiment every time you make a change in your process to make sure that it's worth doing?

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I do. It's the pragmatic method.

I couldn't taste/feel a difference on the 5 gallon batch that I did 50% with oats 50% without. It was a Wheat Stout beer.

Denny said:

I do. It's the pragmatic method.

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I get a few friends together and arrange blind tastings. I then use the results of those tastings to fine-tune my brewing process or recipes.

weirdboy said:

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I get a few friends together and arrange blind tastings. I then use the results of those tastings to fine-tune my brewing process or recipes.

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The best tasting is a triangle tasting, as mentioned a few post back. 2 glasses of one beer, one of the other. Pick the one that's different. If your tasters can do that, then their comments about the beer are valid. If not, well.....

Denny said:

The best tasting is a triangle tasting, as mentioned a few post back. 2 glasses of one beer, one of the other. Pick the one that's different. If your tasters can do that, then their comments about the beer are valid. If not, well.....

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If they can do that repeatedly, their comments are valid. They have a pretty good chance of picking it once by chance.

Well, it's a one in 3 chance, right? But I agree that repeatedly choosing the right one would be best.

TO THE OP.......

My first thought was that adding oats to the bottle, would be like adding potatoes to soup.

Potatoes soak up a lot of flavor and salt, effectively "mellowing" the soup, as the OP said it affected his beer.

They may add some flavor, but couldn't they soak some up as well?

All you are doing is adding some additonal starch to the bottle. You can do the same thing by adding the oats durring the brewing process. They will give a more creamy smooth mouth feel. I would suggest if you don't like the flavors you are hiding to try modification to your specialty grains, it costs less and accomplishes whay tou say that you are enjoying. Try also looking for a recipe with the oats in the brew....many times called "creamy' and see if you like the brew.

Anyone else give this a try?

i did a copule bottle on Monday. it was an ordinary bitter, but the oats were just sitting there in plain view, so I figured what they hey, and tossed some in a couple.

we'll see in a couple weeks.

What the hell happened to the follow up of this thread, I've just scrolled through 15 pages of heretic discussion, hotly anticipating the outcome from other brewers and no follow up.