Is store bought bottled water sanitary?

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Kaiser

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I'm going to brew my 2nd batch soon and was thinking about various methods of cooling the wort. My plan is to freeze bottled water from the store (will the plastic be able to stretch when the ice expands?) and put them into the primary. I did the math and found that 3 gal of boiling hot wort and 2 gal of Ice come to about 80 F which should be ideal for pitching the yeast.

I read a previous thread about using Ice to cool the wort and found that even store bought bagged ice may be contaminated. That's why I want to freeze it in the botle. I didn't want to bother boiling the water before I freeze it since this might be a waste of energy if it is not necessary.

Thanks,
 
You should be fine. This is exactly what I have been doing for years (I use distilled water to be safe.)

As for the expansion problem... you could rupture one of the bottles in the freezer. It happened to me with a 1 gallon jug one time. Ever since then, I started dumping out a half cup of water from each jug, re-capping, and then putting them into the freezer to give the water room to grow as it freezes.

-walker
 
One more thing... on my last two batches I used 3 gallons of ice-cold (but not frozen) water to chill my wort instead of 2 gallons of ice. I did this because I got sick-and-tired of having to cut the plastic bottle off the huge ice blocks I was pulling out of the freezer.

This also solves the ruptured water bottle problem, but you DO have to keep an eye on the water to make sure it doesn't freeze when you aren't paying attention.

-walker
 
The melting of Ice actually absorbs most of the energy from the hot water. That's why I plan to use ice so I can still boil 3-4gal of wort. I'll see, how much cutting the jugs open will bother me.

But thanks for the tip with dumping some of the water.
 
When you did your calculations, how cold did you assume your ice was? That's going to play into this. One time my 2 gallons of ice OVER-cooled my wort and I had to add boiling water to bring it back to pitching temps.

I'm sure you'll be fine. Best of luck!

-walker
 
Just add yeast food if you are doing all extract and use distilled water. Otherwise the grains will provide everything the yeast need.

I used two 2L soda bottles in my last batch. (I keep them in the big freezer for trips to the store, I'm way up in the hills!) Sanitized the outside & put them in the pot. Could have hooked up the chiller, but I was being lazy.
 
I should have been more specific... I use 3 gallons of bottled spring or drinking water in my kettle. I only use the distilled water for the cooling since I won't be boiling it.

-walker
 
david_42 said:
Just add yeast food if you are doing all extract and use distilled water. Otherwise the grains will provide everything the yeast need.


Question: if the grains provide everything the yeast need, then why are things different when using extract? After all, that extract was made from grain. :confused:

-walker
 
Walker said:
I should have been more specific... I use 3 gallons of bottled spring or drinking water in my kettle. I only use the distilled water for the cooling since I won't be boiling it.

I checked the web site for the spring water that I plan to be using, and they say that they disinfect the water. I assume that this is a requirement for all bottled water and I don't have to boil it or use distilled water.
 
disinfecting is not a requirement for bottled water, but most companies do it anyway.

one thing to watch out for is chlorine or chloramine in the water. You could possibly be able to taste chlorine in the final product if it's detectable in the water. You can boil water to remove cholrine.

Chloramine, on the other hand, is a chlorine and ammonia compound that will NOT boil off. My tap water has chloramine in it, and that's why I don't use it.

-walker
 
Walker said:
My tap water has chloramine in it, and that's why I don't use it.

City of Raleigh water? That's one of the sources for my water in Fuquay so I checked the water quality report and didn't see chloramine...does it show up as another substance or combination of substances? This is the report I used for getting a water profile together in Promash:

http://www.raleighnc.gov/publications/Public_Utilities/Finished_Water_Quality_Report-2004.pdf

I've been using tap water with a generous addition of 'water crystals'.
 
Yeah, city of Raleigh. I didn't actually check any sources other than the LHBS. When I first got here, I asked them about the city tap water and the young guy (can't remember his name) told me that the city water had chloramine in it. Mark (owner) shook his head in agreement.

I just took their word for it. Granted, it might have been a scam to get me to buy the water that they sell themselves, but at $0.25/gallon for their water, they are hardly getting rich off of such a scam (plus, I just buy my water at Kroger anyway.)

I'll check out your link, though.

-walker
 
the wikipedia says it has these other names:

Chloroazane
Monochloramine
Chloramide

But I don't see any of those on the water report. *shrug*

Maybe I will use tap water next time.

One other comment: what's the harm if it DOES contain chloramine? That compound is odorless and tasteless. WOuld it kill the yeast, perhaps, being a disinfectant and all?

-walker
 
It beats me...my water actually comes from potentially three different sources, but I'm guessing most comes from Raleigh and hence use that as my water profile. I've never had any issues with fermentation, so I'm mainly concerned about getting the ph where I want it, and using the salts to get a harder water profile which aids in protein precipitation and maintaining ph.

I've thought several times about doing a batch with store-bought water, but for a typical AG batch I need 9-12 gallons and don't want to increase my batch cost that much (although 25 cents a gallon is much lower than what I've seen in grocery stores).
 
yeah, the Kroger brand bottled spring/drinking/distilled water costs about $0.50 or $0.80 per gallon (depending on which type you buy.)

Being a cheap bastard :)))I didn't like the idea of spending $3.00 for water, but seeing as how beer is primarily made of water, I thought I'd better be safe rather than sorry.

I should have done DD and checked the water report, but... laziness strikes again.

$0.25 for a gallon from the LHBS is a pittance, but... the water they sell is devoid of almost everything except pure H2O, so you end up having to buy water salts to spice it up a bit. You also have to bring your own containers, too.... they just draw the water out of their fancy-schmancy purifiying machine and fill your jugs.

-walker
 
If the water smells bad, many odors (including chlorine) can be removed by boiling. Some city water supplies use a chemical called chloramine instead of chlorine to kill bacteria. Chloramine cannot be removed by boiling and will give a medicinal taste to beer.

Got this from how to brew.
 
hmmm.. interesting. Palmer says it leaves a medicinal taste. Chemists say it is tasteless. I wonder if it somehow reacts to something else in the beer to leave the funky taste?

-walker
 
Well, the water report specifically mentions residual chlorine so I would assume they're using Cl and that using chloramine would be redundant. Nothing to say they don't switch from time to time, however.

Sounds like AB are using a reverse-osmosis system. 25 cents certainly seems fair. Maybe I'll try to snag some plastic water carboys from work.
 
Walker said:
When you did your calculations, how cold did you assume your ice was? That's going to play into this. One time my 2 gallons of ice OVER-cooled my wort and I had to add boiling water to bring it back to pitching temps.

I'm sure you'll be fine. Best of luck!

-walker
Um, you don't have to "assume" how cold ice is. Water (just plain water) can't get any colder than 32 degree Farenheit.
 
bikebryan said:
Um, you don't have to "assume" how cold ice is. Water (just plain water) can't get any colder than 32 degree Farenheit.

Ice is a solid phase of H2O and can assume ambient temperature as long that temperature is <32F. Water, liquid phase H2O, cannot exist below 32F if we set aside atmospheric pressure discussions. If your freezer is 20F, your ice is 20F.
 
bikebryan said:
Um, you don't have to "assume" how cold ice is. Water (just plain water) can't get any colder than 32 degree Farenheit.

Brother that is way wrong. Ice can be as low as you can go. It's water that can't go above boiling because it turns to vapor and is no longer water. Once it turns solid (Ice), it can continue to be brought down in temperature.
 
Water can get colder than 32F, it's called supercooling. Ice now, can be a lot colder. My chest freezer runs at -20F. The cooling provided by melting the ice will dominate, but the warmup from -20F to 32F is large enough to consider. If you use a gallon of ice, that's another 10-12F
 
rhinostylee said:
I thought using distilled water was a no-no because it has no minerals and stuff. Is that not the case?

My buddy uses distilled water for extract brews to cool them down and bring them up to 5 gallons. I used to warn him about that until I had several different samples of his beer. It tastes great.
 
Actually the lack of minerals will do no harm, it's the lack of O2 in distilled water that is the problem. Aerate and you'll do fine.

Up hear in Canada bottled water has to be "clean/safe/etc".

The question about frozen commercial Ice was regarding picking up contaminants while in the freezer. Fungus, bacteria, etc. I have used commercial ice in the past with no problems, but there is always a potential risk. I've been freezing bottled water in sanitzed tuperware conatiners (with lids) lately.
 
ScottT said:
Brother that is way wrong. Ice can be as low as you can go. It's water that can't go above boiling because it turns to vapor and is no longer water. Once it turns solid (Ice), it can continue to be brought down in temperature.
Woops, you're right. I got a few facts mixed up.....

It's insulating factors that ice/snow (aka, frozen water) provide. That's what I was thinking of.

Oh, and an interesting fact...in Cool School (a mini-winter survival course) they teach that ice can't get any colder than freezing. Although I picked that up 20 years ago, and it was a wrong "fact" that's probably where I pulled that incorrect data from.
 
In my water supply there is a surge in the chlorination about once every two weeks. The water company does it intentionally to purge water lines. When it happens the water smells of chlorine until it clears up, usually about 4 hours. Fortunately, they seem to do this in early morning hours and I notice it most taking a morning shower. If I had bad water I would buy bottled spring water that says "Bottled at the Source." I have filtered water but really don't trust what can happen in the carbon filter.
 
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