Parti Gyle & Mash Length for Second Runnings

We started talking about this in another parti gyle thread, but thought it might be better to start a new thread instead:

Let's say I'm planning on doing an IPA/Imperial IPA and then a Bitter/ESB. I'll do my first runnings and then "cap" the mash with a little chocolate malt or dark crystal before the second runnings.

Now, what if I can't (or won't) do two concurrent boils and would rather do two subsequent boils. I would really only need 10 to 15 minutes to get what what I need from the cap on the second mash, yet I would need the mash to sit at temperature for one to two hours while I boil and cool the first wort.

Can anyone imagine any problems here? The only risk from letting the second runnings rest for an hour or two is increased tannins. I've done an unintentional two to three hour mash with no (remembered) ill-effects.

I left the second runnings in a partigyle mash during the big beer brew, no problem. Shouldn't be a problem if the pH isn't too high and you leave it at mashout temp. Adding roasted grain will help with the pH and adding the sparge water will cover you on temp.

If you're really worried about it, you could lauter it out into a bucket or whatever, but then you waste the thermal advantage of leaving it in the MLT. Anywho, a little tannin is probably desirable - hearing the CYBI on London Pride, they describe it having tannins from partigyle mashing. My palate isn't quite so sophisticated, but that beer is fantastic, so it can't be a bad thing!

Yes, I heard that interview with Fuller's, too. Their process isn't exactly a parti gyle as we tend to think of it, but still very interesting. It's a good point about having a little desirable tannin extraction, though...

I wouldn't worry about tannins at all, really. What I've had more trouble with when doing partigyles is an over-attenuated small beer. For example, my last partigyle was an IIPA (79% ADF) and APA (93% ADF). The APA ended up being a little thin and bland as a result. I think next time I'm going to pull the second runnings before I even start the boil on the first, and at least get it hot enough to denature the enyzmes (>170°F). Alternately you could add enough boiling water to get to mashout temps.

a10t2 said:

I wouldn't worry about tannins at all, really. What I've had more trouble with when doing partigyles is an over-attenuated small beer. For example, my last partigyle was an IIPA (79% ADF) and APA (93% ADF). The APA ended up being a little thin and bland as a result. I think next time I'm going to pull the second runnings before I even start the boil on the first, and at least get it hot enough to denature the enyzmes (>170°F). Alternately you could add enough boiling water to get to mashout temps.

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Don't know if you added a little dark crystal or some carapils during the 2nd runnings mash... but that would help your overattenuation, provide some residual sugars for you without having to actually "mash" again.