Wisconsin problems like Oregon...

I started to type this up a few times. I have hunted for as much info as I can find which is very little. I was told that this is already being fought and worked on but I felt compelled to share this info. I am not trying to rattle the sabers or cause more problems but I think the more people that know about this the better. Please keep the discussion civil as threads like these can derail and degenerate very quickly, we are all on the "same team".

Last month in Racine WI. a homebrew club was raided/warned. (I am floored that there was nothing about it here...) I am not a member of this club but I have been told by active AHA members that WI is being HEAVILY looked at in a BAD way. The Dept. of Revenue is also now involved, I am told. I was also asked to not bring HB to club meetings anymore as it is a violation of the law as it is currently being enforced.

Here is the original article copy from the Racine Post: http://news.racinepost.com/2011/04/city-shuts-down-racine-home-brew-club.html

April 3, 2011
City Shuts Down Racine Home Brew Club
We've heard reports over the weekend of a city bust at DP Wigley in Racine. The gist seems to be the Health Department shut down the Belle City Brew Club for drinking home-brewed beer at the store. Apparently state laws says you can only drink home-brewed beer in the home of the person who brewed it.

It seems DP Wigley got in trouble because they were giving away beer in the store, presumably without a liquor license. The Saturday event was a fundraiser for the Racine Urban Garden Network.

More on this as it comes together, including what it means for the local home brew club and for DP Wigley, which sells brewing supplies through its store, Hop To It.

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There are some interesting comments as well. This looks like the laws will need to be changed on a state level. Perhaps we can get enough people to get a law on the books that will allow us to sell our brew at farmer's markets an such, like they have in ND.

Is there anything one can do but wait? Traditionally the people who make these laws have no clue what they are doing and it sure would be nice to have laws work in our favor for once...

What are your thoughts?

Although it would be awesome to change a law that only allows you to drink homebrew in the home it was created in, it seems from this reading that the only reason it was enforced is because there was a store involved. I doubt the authorities will bother trying to determine if homebrew being drunk at a residence was actually produced at that residence; it would be nearly impossible.

I wonder what was the motivation for the raid. Did someone complain? Looking for increased revenue? Crazy drunkedness?

I love wisconsin and have lived here most of my life but recently there have been lots of reasons why I might need to move out of this state.

Airborneguy said:

it seems from this reading that the only reason it was enforced is because there was a store involved.

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I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one.

I think the chance of changing a law to allow the selling of HB at a market is low, and is reaching a little too far. Changing the law to allow free samples to be provided is important since it directly impacts the ability to hold tastings and educational events outside of either a home, or a facility with a license. Why it was the Health Department and not the Revenue Service that handled this is a little strange.

So contact your local representative and raise your concerns with them to see if they are willing to sponsor this change. The HB clubs of WI should coordinate to make sure as many representatives as possible receive the same message.

The Health department would be involved because the store is serving unregulated products for consumption. Their interest is in making sure the store is holding to health regulations for serving food and beverages.

ArtVandelay said:

I love wisconsin and have lived here most of my life but recently there have been lots of reasons why I might need to move out of this state.

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Nah don't move, get rich and buy your own politician.

ArtVandelay said:

I love wisconsin and have lived here most of my life but recently there have been lots of reasons why I might need to move out of this state.

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I know I'm a southerner compared to you, but we've got it pretty great as far as homebrew laws down here in IL.

Think of the bright side. This sucked for us when it was discovered in Oregon but it also gave us a chance to change the laws.

Our Legislator dealt with it as soon as they could. I hear WI might have other things on their plate at the moment though. Maybe after all the recall elections they'll get around to it.

I am FULLY aware that getting a law through like the one in ND is indeed a long stretch but the time to try would be when they are writing/rewriting the laws. I would be happy with just being able to have competitions + HB at events all legalized.

This is a cross reference article from the Journal times: http://journaltimes.com/news/local/article_0fead064-6327-11e0-a130-001cc4c002e0.html

This is raising a BIG stink for the Racine brewers and can potentially be enforced anywhere in the state at any time. This is NOT just localized to a city.

I am fully aware that the lack of the law enforcement will probably continue through out most of the state, however I do not like doing illegal activities, esspecially when it involves my brewing/beer nor do I condone it. (But that is just me.)

i've been meaning to post that as well.

the state fair has a HB comp every year.

Wisconsin Law Chapter 125.06
3) HOMEMADE WINE OR FERMENTED MALT BEVERAGES. The
manufacture of wine or fermented malt beverages of any alcoholic
content by any person at his or her home, farm or place of residence
if the wine or fermented malt beverages is to be consumed
by that person or his or her family and guests, and if the person
manufacturing the wine or fermented malt beverages receives no
compensation.

Section 3 is the only mention of homemade malt beverages in the entire chapter. I don't see anything there about not taking it places. Then again I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

Chops said:

Wisconsin Law Chapter 125.06
3) HOMEMADE WINE OR FERMENTED MALT BEVERAGES. The
manufacture of wine or fermented malt beverages of any alcoholic
content by any person at his or her home, farm or place of residence
if the wine or fermented malt beverages is to be consumed
by that person or his or her family and guests, and if the person
manufacturing the wine or fermented malt beverages receives no
compensation.

Section 3 is the only mention of homemade malt beverages in the entire chapter. I don't see anything there about not taking it places. Then again I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

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It may not specifically say you can't travel with it, but the law says that homebrewed beverages are to be consumed by only the brewer, family and guests, which would imply home consumption only.

Even if it doesn't specifically say in the home, the law would need to specifically state that it is ok to bring the beverages elsewhere and give to other people.

The law is written such that you can only do what is stated in the law and nothing else.

I think the laws are ridiculously antiquated, but that's the way it is right now.

This is indeed a problem. My local homebrew club has talked about this at length. We have to be very careful about meetings, events, etc. We are well aware the Big Brother IS watching. At our last meeting we decided to draft a letter to ALL the homebrew clubs in the state and get as many as we can behind us. The next step will be to contact our assembly representative and see what we can do to get the law changed. I do not agree with those on here that have said that the chances of getting it changed are slim. I think we can do it. But we need everyone's help. All Cheesehead homebrewers must chip in.

Ghostly said:

The Health department would be involved because the store is serving unregulated products for consumption. Their interest is in making sure the store is holding to health regulations for serving food and beverages.

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While this is true, I believe they were selling tickets to a charity event, at which homebrewed beer was being served. The event was at the homebrew shop. I could be incorrect on the details.

Here in La Crosse, at the Between the Bluffs Beer, Wine & Cheese Fest, our homebrew club has our own serving booth and goes through about 11 kegs....

robbiex0r said:

Here in La Crosse, at the Between the Bluffs Beer, Wine & Cheese Fest, our homebrew club has our own serving booth and goes through about 11 kegs....

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I am sure you did. And it was illegal. And if the right politician gets a burr up his a$$ then you can kiss your involvement at the fest goodbye. So join us in helping to get the law changed.

Wow! You guys can legally make beer for personal use in WI? I'm so jealous.

shelly_belly said:

Wow! You guys can legally make beer for personal use in WI? I'm so jealous.

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LOL! Yeah, we could have it worse, I suppose.

I was curious about the reasoning behind the last email I received saying we were to no longer bring homebrew to club meetings. Very interesting, and kind of concerning...

A small group of people in WI need to step up and work with a sympathetic congressman and the AHA to change the law.

The rest of you should obey the law until it changes. It's one thing to be blindsided but the way the state interprets the law is clear now and flagrantly violating it and getting caught will hurt your cause.

Seems like a lot of competitions use Madison as a regional hub. What happens if the wrong politician gets a burr up his/her a$$ about that?

Hmm concerning. I want to keep up on this. I am not involved with my local club, but I know they have served at some beer fests in the past...I will contact my legislators as long as they are in the state

I would love to find out more of the history that created these laws in the first place. Does the stick up the a$$ come from some bygone prohibition era BS or from not being good boys and girls and letting the state wet it's beak with taxes on your consumption? I truly hope WI has a representative like the one in Central Oregon who went straight to bat at the legislature.

Well, the plan that our club has is as follows:

1. Draft a letter and send it to all the homebrew clubs in the state and hope they reply with an endorsement.
2. Take these endorsements to our local representative and perhaps invite him to a club meeting, and see if he will get the legal ball rolling in the legislature to get the law amended.

At what stages are you in formulating this letter. I can get it to the correct people at the Sheboygan Sudzzers for endorsement.

I am being told that we now have legislator's that are sympathetic to our cause. (This does not mean to stop doing your part...) It looks like it will go down pretty much as it did in Oregon as the situation is very close.

Just thought I would update.

For those interested, our club is in contact with an individual who is also working on this as well as establishing a Wisconsin Homebrew Alliance group. I just found out about this yesterday and we have made contact but have no specifics yet. If you are interested in being kept in the loop on this I will do what I can if you PM me with a name and e-mail.

We (Manty Malters club) have a Homebrew Alliance rep as well. The true problem is under state statue 139, under the taxation section that says that homebrewed beer is not taxable if it is brewing in the home and consumed IN THE HOME by family or guests. The dept of revenue (our version of a liquor control board) cares about the money stream, which is $1.00 per barrel for anything less than 60k barrels per year and $2 over that (nice to have Miller and Pabst in the state). So we are in a urinating contest between 125.06 and section 139. I have spoken to my local representative and he seems interested in our cause.

We have to be very careful about where we hold our meetings now. If someone gets a hair in their ass, we could actually get good businesses in trouble that are willing to give us bar space. Sounds eerily like Oregon in 2010, as a matter of fact.

Denny330 said:

The true problem is under state statue 139, under the taxation section that says that homebrewed beer is not taxable if it is brewing in the home and consumed IN THE HOME by family or guests. The dept of revenue (our version of a liquor control board) cares about the money stream, which is $1.00 per barrel for anything less than 60k barrels per year and $2 over that.

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I would march right in to the Dept. of Revenue and buy my tax stamps as long as I was deemed a "Home micro brewery" that is allowed to brew up to 59 bbls (I will settle on 30bbl) a year and be allowed to self distribute. To top it off, I would buy an extra license/stamp to be able to charge people for my beer on my property! The issue is someone is imagining money where there is none.

Seriously, I would be happy to be limited to 200 gallons a year and be able to drink it with anyone of the legal drinking age, unrestricted by location.

What makes me mad is they don't have ANY way to enforce this BS, short of self incrimination. I am not saying to lie or not tell the truth but we do have a right to plead the 5th. Then the burden of proof falls on them to prove something that they would never be able to prove beyond speculation.

Rottnme said:

For those interested, our club is in contact with an individual who is also working on this as well as establishing a Wisconsin Homebrew Alliance group. I just found out about this yesterday and we have made contact but have no specifics yet. If you are interested in being kept in the loop on this I will do what I can if you PM me with a name and e-mail.

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I will send an email.

I cannot believe this is happening in our state. Gotta tell the boys about this one. We hold our meeting at a friends office, I wouldn't want him getting into any trouble.

remilard said:

A small group of people in WI need to step up and work with a sympathetic congressman and the AHA to change the law.

The rest of you should obey the law until it changes. It's one thing to be blindsided but the way the state interprets the law is clear now and flagrantly violating it and getting caught will hurt your cause.

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My neighbors son is an assembly man, maybe I can take our issue up with him. I've actually had conversations with him and he is a really nice guy. Let me know what I can do.

It's disturbing to read this about my state. I may have to join in and contact my reps.

Zamial said:

The issue is someone is imagining money where there is none.

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This is likely a potential problem in every state that allows homebrewing, excepting OR and CO and other states have added language in recent years.

It's probable that the right to homebrew is a mere one or two line clause that exempts taxation. And that's it.

It likely uses language such as "in the home", "for home purposes".

It undoubtedly says nothing about transportation or use outside of the home.

This leaves these questions wide open to your state's alcohol control board or department of liquor control or an overreaching department of health. These are all appointed positions with little oversight or direction.

Right or wrong, they make decisions that are binding without any recourse until after the fact. By this I mean, they bust up your homebrew competition and you're screwed. You may ultimately prevail at some hearing, but your actual comp is over.

This is why it is important to join a club; have that club communicate with the professional brewers guild and the AHA and the DLLC/ACB. In many cases you can get these things cleared up and get some legal precedent and policies in place.

The other longer term option is to get some meaningful and favorable laws passed, but bear in mind that you risk opening up the entire law guaranteeing homebrewing. It's not entirely impossible (especially in my wacky state) that some grandstanding state legislator decides to ****can the whole exemption once they find out you can brew 200 gallons of the debbil juice. Plan on a ridiculous amount of education and PR.

olllllo said:

The other longer term option is to get some meaningful and favorable laws assed, but bear in mind that you risk opening up the entire law guaranteeing homebrewing. It's not entirely impossible (especially in my wacky state) that some grandstanding state legislator decides to ****can the whole exemption once they find out you can brew 200 gallons of the debbil juice. Plan on a ridiculous amount of education and PR.

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Good point. It's also why we have to take the fight to them and help craft the laws instead of letting a bunch of politicians with no knowledge of home brewing do it.

Sounds like untill such time as the law is updated the club meetings should rotate to members' residences.

MeatyPortion said:

It's disturbing to read this about my state. I may have to join in and contact my reps.

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Holy Crap! Meaty and I are on the same side of a political issue! Ok, Lord, you can take me home now, I have officially seen it all.....

J/K, Meaty, welcome aboard!