Alternative Method for Freeze Concentration

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calimainer

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I've been looking online for freeze concentration methods (which are legal in the US) and found that most people freeze a milk jug of their cider and then turn it upside down and let the alcohol drain off.
Could I not also just toss a bucket of cider in the freezer and skim off the ice as it form until the volume is say half of the original? Would this yield the same results?
 
I made an Eisbock last weekend with the method you are describing. It was difficult to say the least. When scooping, the agitasion melts the ice. Also quite a bit of good product is stuck to the ice. I wish I had known about the jug method you described.
 
As long as your only skimming ice I don't see why it wouldn't work. But how do you plan on freezing just the top? My experience with freeze concentrating has been that it freezes in varying levels of slushiness and doesn't seperate on its own
 
dawgmatic, the whole thing would be freezing, but the ice would rise to the top because it's less dense. Would the jug method leave behind any less of the alcohol than the freezer bucket method?
The big bucket, while more work intensive, would be easier in my situation that buying a bunch of milk jugs and mason jars.
I would do the second options if better, but ideally not.
 
I wouldn't know, I use a gallon jug whenever I do it. Whenever I make cider or mead I pull a gallon off to freeze it, I never do more than that though so its never been a pain. I let it freeze as much as it can, then I stab a wooden shishkabob skewer down into it a couple time to make some channels, then I put it upside down over a jar. Usually by the time its at half volume the color has almost entirely left the jug. Anything left behind still has some of the flavors, but never tastes like alcohol, the drainings on the otherhand are another story.

If you want to freeze a large batch, why don't you try freezing it in a bottling bucket, then just open the drain when your ready to seperate it. It might take awhile, but it might also be a lot less effort on your part
 
It doesn't just freeze on top, it freezes on the sides, too and that's where you get a larger volume of ice. The reason the jug method works so easily is because you end up with that core of concentrated beer/cider/whatever in the middle that you can drain out and leave all the ice behind.

I guess you could scoop out all the ice from the top and then rack the core out and leave the ice in the sides and bottom.
 
I've only done freeze concentrating in a freezer one time. I used a 10 qt icecream pail. Usually, I wait until it is colder than an Alaskan well digger's bum and set the pail in my garage. We usually get a cold spell around the end of January, early February where it gets below zero for a few days. Anyway...

Once my cider or beer has frozen, I stir it gently with a stick like a chopstick. This breaks up the ice into pretty coarse crystals. I let the slush sit in the cold for another day so all the stuff that is still liquid can percolate to the bottom of the pail. Then I scoop out the ice (frozen water) and gently stir again. I continue this process until the weather threatens to warm up or I think there is no point in continuing. I pour the remaining slushy liquid through a fine mesh strainer to get the last bit of ice.

Homemade blackberry wine, cherry wine and various apple concotions lend themselves quite nicely to this process. Patience really pays off. I have an apple wine concentrate flavored with a touch of cinnamon and nutmeg that is just wonderful poured over a bit of icecream. I also have a 6 year old applejack that will knock your socks off.
 
Great tips guys. I have a 5 gallon bottling bucket that just barely fits in my freezer that I'll use like dawgmatic mentioned.
You're right, Apache, the way I originally intended to do it would be too labor intensive and even more inexact.
 
One thing though: how would I keep the spigot from freezing up initially and blocking the flow?
 
If you want to freeze a large batch, why don't you try freezing it in a bottling bucket, then just open the drain when your ready to seperate it. It might take awhile, but it might also be a lot less effort on your part

Sorry to revive a frozen thread, hehe. I am going to give this a shot with a stout and a bottling bucket tonight. We just got a load of snow so it will be cold enough to do this outside.

Any tips for using the bucket to freeze concentrate?
 
ColoHox said:
Sorry to revive a frozen thread, hehe. I am going to give this a shot with a stout and a bottling bucket tonight. We just got a load of snow so it will be cold enough to do this outside.

Any tips for using the bucket to freeze concentrate?

No tips but let us know how it goes. I gotta a stout I'm thinking of doing some.
 
My issue with using the bottling bucket is the beer in the spigot will most likely freeze, which will make it hard to drain off the alcohol. If you have the option to use a bunch of empty milk jugs that would be the best option. I did that with a mead which went from 16% to somewhere in the mid 20s.

Another thing Stevo, and this is up to personal taste, but concentrating a stout would make a really thick beer. Stout is so thick that it might turn out like a milkshake.
 
My issue with using the bottling bucket is the beer in the spigot will most likely freeze, which will make it hard to drain off the alcohol. If you have the option to use a bunch of empty milk jugs that would be the best option. I did that with a mead which went from 16% to somewhere in the mid 20s.

Another thing Stevo, and this is up to personal taste, but concentrating a stout would make a really thick beer. Stout is so thick that it might turn out like a milkshake.

My spigot did freeze, so draining there was not an option. And the whole reason I was interested in concentrating my stout is because it is not thick enough.
 
No tips but let us know how it goes. I gotta a stout I'm thinking of doing some.

Bottling bucket was easy. Uncapped bottles and slowly poured contents into bucket, then slapped the lid on and put it outside (~8F) overnight.

The next morning I broke up the ice with my mash paddle and scooped it out with a strainer. I let the strainer sit on the edge for a few minutes to drain the liquid. After one freeze overnight @ 8F, I removed 0.5gal of volume from the 3.75gal total. I would like to do a few more rounds of freeze and remove, until I have reduced the vol by about half I think.

The ice tasted sweet, and was slightly brown as you can see. I have not tasted my concentrated beverage yet.

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My issue with using the bottling bucket is the beer in the spigot will most likely freeze, which will make it hard to drain off the alcohol. If you have the option to use a bunch of empty milk jugs that would be the best option. I did that with a mead which went from 16% to somewhere in the mid 20s.

Another thing Stevo, and this is up to personal taste, but concentrating a stout would make a really thick beer. Stout is so thick that it might turn out like a milkshake.

My spigot did freeze, so draining there was not an option. And the whole reason I was interested in concentrating my stout is because it is not thick enough.

Maybe use a hair dryer to heat up the spigot?
 
So my eistout and apple jack have been through two overnight freezes.

This is not exactly accurate, but for estimation purposes, I used C1V1=C2V2 to determine the change in ABV:

C1(2gal)=(6%)(3.75gal) --> C1= 11.25% for the stout and ~20% for the applejack.

The stout is now sweet and thick alcohol burn and the applejack is nearly brandy. The flavor is excellent on both. Although, now I understand that freeze concentrating concentrates all flavors, even bad ones.

A bucket and a fine mesh strainer, outside when it is cold enough, is a fantastically easy way to do this.

Thanks for the ideas, I think this will now become a regular thing.
 
Did this once with an applewine, as suggested earlier, I froze a couple 2 liter soda bottles for a few days in the freezer, then simply uncap and invert over a funnel draining to a bottle, after twenty minutes or so the ice and slush left in the bottle is clear and you have the "fortified" liquid drained into the bottle. I agree, all good and bad flavors are concentrated, but after a couple years on the basement shelf, this applejack brandy has improved as I curiously take a nip every 6 months or so.
 
i wonder .... since gallon jugs tend to be cheap and the ice tends to freeze on top of the beer/wort, why not just sanitize the bottom of the jug used to freeze and slice/punch a hole in the bottom of it? then the liquid would flow out and the ice would remain. then you can you use the jugs as a funnel or toss/recycle them. just a thought.
 
So my eistout and apple jack have been through two overnight freezes.

This is not exactly accurate, but for estimation purposes, I used C1V1=C2V2 to determine the change in ABV:

C1(2gal)=(6%)(3.75gal) --> C1= 11.25% for the stout and ~20% for the applejack.

The stout is now sweet and thick alcohol burn and the applejack is nearly brandy. The flavor is excellent on both. Although, now I understand that freeze concentrating concentrates all flavors, even bad ones.

A bucket and a fine mesh strainer, outside when it is cold enough, is a fantastically easy way to do this.

Thanks for the ideas, I think this will now become a regular thing.

Your alcohol percents might be off. I remember reading somewhere that the concentration of alcohol possible is related to how cold the temperature gets rather than volume removed.
I think the 2 liter bottle method is easy if you are using a freezer to freeze the beverage, but there are lots of ways to do it that work.
 
Your alcohol percents might be off. I remember reading somewhere that the concentration of alcohol possible is related to how cold the temperature gets rather than volume removed.
I think the 2 liter bottle method is easy if you are using a freezer to freeze the beverage, but there are lots of ways to do it that work.

I agree. I know the relationship is not exactly linear, but it is close.

I did both methods (bottle and bucket), both work really well. Although, in the making of applejack, I did not account enough for freeze expansion and had a bit of a mess.
 
So my eistout and apple jack have been through two overnight freezes.

This is not exactly accurate, but for estimation purposes, I used C1V1=C2V2 to determine the change in ABV:

C1(2gal)=(6%)(3.75gal) --> C1= 11.25% for the stout and ~20% for the applejack.

The stout is now sweet and thick alcohol burn and the applejack is nearly brandy. The flavor is excellent on both. Although, now I understand that freeze concentrating concentrates all flavors, even bad ones.

A bucket and a fine mesh strainer, outside when it is cold enough, is a fantastically easy way to do this.

Thanks for the ideas, I think this will now become a regular thing.

Michael Tonsmeire (Mad Fermentationist) got together with AJ deLange to do the full ASBC Method test for alcohol content of an homebrew eisbier. The results were surprising in that the alcohol content was lower than expected.

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/07/testing-alcohol-content-of-ice.html
 
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