Belgian Strong Golden Ale - Fermentation Schedule?

Hi,

I put down 10 gallons of Belgian Strong Golden Ale this weekend, and was interested in input about a decent fermentation schedule.

I ended up with a 1.090 FG (epic efficiency), and followed a normal recipe of 90% Pilsner, 5% Munich, 5% Flaked Wheat and some homemade candi sugar.

I have just pitched a healthy starter of WLP 530, and the temp is sitting around 60F at the moment.

What schedule would you suggest to get the very best out of the recipe and yeast I have used.

Bear in mind I cannot crash cool or lager, the temp its at now is about the lowest I can get it by a few degrees. I can obviously get it warmer by moving it to a room with under floor heating, and wrapping it up, but i think I only want to do this around 4 days time.

Beersmith says I should end up with a beer (if WLP 530 performs of between 10% and 11% ABV). Where do you think this "should end, FG of arond 1.010?

Advice?

Ferment it until it is done (3 weeks plus? You cannot schedule fermentation), I suggest leaving it in the fermentor for another couple weeks after that.

530 abbey ale
Used to produce Trappist style beers. Similar to WLP500, but is less fruity and more alcohol tolerant (up to 15% ABV). Excellent yeast for high gravity beers, Belgian ales, dubbels and trippels.
Attenuation: 75-80%
Flocculation: Medium to high
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 66-72°F
(19-22°C)
Alcohol Tolerance: High

I'd start at the lower end 66*F for about four days of the fermentation,then slowly move it up to 72*F to finish out. Do you have some way to control the temperatures in those ranges (heating blanket/pad)?

Yep, for that small variation I can control it.

when I talk about a fermentation schedule, belgian ales normally have specific temps for certain times. Some ales specifically have to get nice and warm, and I am interested in the experience of other brewers who have tried these ales.

I would pitch @ 64 degrees and ferment @ 64 for a week. Every day thereafter I would raise it by 1 degree up until you get to about ~71 degrees for decent ester production. Lager it for a week thereafter to crisp it. After that, let it condition in on for 2 months @ room temp, and bottle condition for 3 months.

What was your mash schedule? How much candy sugar did you use? It's going to be hard to get it down to 1.010 without significant simple sugar contributions. Duvel for example uses over 15% sugar in their fermentables.

After 3-4 days, I would let it rise freely in a room around 70F ambient

this yeast you can bring it up higher after the vigorous fermentation starts to slow, to bring out more esters. but this strains design produces esters within the temperatures listed that should be enough for this style.

I have a tripel fermenting now that I started at 66*F and it will finsh at around 76*F controlled

if you let these yeasts go they will start producing hot alcohols, which the goldens and tripels dont want in the foreground. you want the cloak & daggar with the alcohol

some styles need the funk and brewers will let the yeast take off from the low end and do it's own thing up in the mid 80 to 90 range. the yeast spit out some strange flavors.

saison yeasts will ferment up in the 80* range

BTW this brew with that high of an OG should finish higher
Vital Statistics: OG: 1.070 – 1.095
IBUs: 22 – 35 FG: 1.005 – 1.016
SRM: 3 – 6 ABV: 7.5 – 10.5%

I agree with something similar to what old brew is saying start lower and ramp up to 83F (if you are using an abbey yeast as he stated).

I just did a belgian quad that is now bottle using a similar strategy and it worked great. I think the ferment schedule for that was:
1. 65F for 2 days
2. 83F for 5 days
3. 50F for 60 days (mine was more like 60-70F)

After that I left mine in the fermenter for a total of 21 days, then racked to kegs and bulk conditioned and just put in bottles this weekend. It is very, very good.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f73/pious-westvleteren-12-style-quad-multiple-147815/

I have a Belgian Golden Ale conditioning in bottles right now with WLP 570. I did this:
-68°F for 2 days ( low end of recommended range)
-72°F for 2 days (middle of range)
-free rise for 4 days to upper end of range
- back down to 70° and hold for 3 weeks


I give a disclaimer that I haven't done this before, but I read several threads and kinda winged it. It has turned out great, and I'm just waiting to condition further to drink. It has a great ester profile, so I can recommend what I did.

Wow, thank you for the excellent advice.

So I can take out that most of you have left this kind of recipe on the yeast for 30days + at least?

I did add 2kg (about 4.4lbs) of sugar to the boil, and I imagine I will get a yeast stall or two along the way; would you suggest I add more sugar to get it going again, I can also pitch another smack pack of 530 if I have to...what would be the best solution?

robtotten said:

What was your mash schedule? How much candy sugar did you use? It's going to be hard to get it down to 1.010 without significant simple sugar contributions. Duvel for example uses over 15% sugar in their fermentables.

After 3-4 days, I would let it rise freely in a room around 70F ambient

Click to expand...

Hi Rob,

I mashed at 149F for 1 hour, and batch sparged to get to 11 gallons in the boil.
Mashed out at 172F.

I added 4.4lbs (2kg) of Cane Sugar to the boil, once at 30mins to flameout, and the other half at 5 mins from flameout.

How would you suggest I encourage the yeast to get down as far as possible?

4.4 pounds of sugar will probably do it! If the yeast is struggling raise the temp to 75+ once it stalls out. I've never done this but a lot of Belgian brewers add sugar during fermentation rather than the boil.

Big starter and pure O2 will help.

The thought behind dosing with sugar after the boil, instead of adding it to the boil, is that the sugars made from converted starches are harder for the yeast to eat. So if you give them a choice, they will start with the easiest sugars first (cane sugar), then they will go to the other more complex sugars. By that time, some of the yeast is stressed and the alcohol level has risen from the simple sugars. You can end up not having enough healthy yeast left toward the end to achieve the highest attenuation.

By letting the healthest yeast in the beginning eat the complex sugars created in the mash then once fermentation slows, you dose the wort with simple sugars. the yeast will not have as much of a hard time finishing up the food.

Thanks for the explanation

I have more yeast, so I can pump up another starter if I have to, and there's always more sugar if things get really tight!

Ramp it up at the end of fermentation for better attenuation. Then drop it to 70 for another 3 weeks. 7 weeks on the cake for big Belgians is my procedure of choice. My Tripel is 8 weeks today on the cake.

I never leave my wort on the yeast once fermentation is complete. If I'm going to bulk condition I'll chill the primary down then flood the secondary with CO2, then rack to the secondary for conditioning. There are too many things in the trub and spent yeast that can produce off flavors. Why take a chance.

UPDATE:

After 10 days, the WLP 530 has munched from 1.090 to 1.022. Fermentation started (we had a wicked cold spell) at 12C (53F), and is now around 18C ambient (64F) and climbing.

I am going to move the fermenter into a warmer room on the weekend that is 20C +, but so far the yeast has not stalled or slowed, its been a beautiful clean and steady ferment thus far.

I can already taste "pear" or what I guess is soft fruit, and of course alcohol and bitter hops from the EKG's i tossed in.

So far so good!

Aweome! I'm brewing a similar recipe today. Using Wyeast 1388. Hope to ferment from 64*F at pitching to 78*F over the course of a week (maybe warmer). I'm still debating on keeping some sugar out of the boil to add to the fermenter later.

I will try the other method on my next try, that of adding the sugar to the fermenter as fermentation progresses, but so far, the WLP 530 has munched its way nice and steadily , even after 4.4lbs of cane sugar in the boil.

Duvel is in the primary for 120 hours, then moved to a secondary. Cold conditioned below freezing after that.

Snotpoodle said:

UPDATE:

After 10 days, the WLP 530 has munched from 1.090 to 1.022. Fermentation started (we had a wicked cold spell) at 12C (53F), and is now around 18C ambient (64F) and climbing.

I am going to move the fermenter into a warmer room on the weekend that is 20C +, but so far the yeast has not stalled or slowed, its been a beautiful clean and steady ferment thus far.

I can already taste "pear" or what I guess is soft fruit, and of course alcohol and bitter hops from the EKG's i tossed in.

So far so good!

Click to expand...

are you talking room temps, or wort temps?
that wl 530 / wyeast 3787 seemed to get lethargic in the mid 50F when ever I have dropped it down that low.
this last part is where the alcohol and complex sugars will start knocking off the yeast. keep us posted on how low she finishes.

Those are room / ambient temps.

I'll be checking it again on Monday when I brew a little IPA.

I only have 40L of the stuff, so trying to take as few samples as possible

I was thinking about tossing together a belgian golden strong this weekend. It would be my first.
Quick question about the sugar additions during fermentation though. Do you guys do anything to sanitize the sugar or just go for it and pitch it in without?

make simple syrup @ 1 to 1 ratio then cool to fermentation temp for dosing.
In the boil you just add the sugar

Gotcha. How would that work (fermentation addition) if using candi sugar (that I made just for this recipe)? Same simple syrup procedure?


edit: Of course it does, still early sorry. The thought of yeast trying to eat pieces of rock candy kind of made me cringe.

Update: 14 Days after brewing, the WLP 530 has eaten down to 1.008. All sugar additions in the boil, hasn't lagged once. Temp is 18C Ambient.

11% ABV currently lol.

Update: 1.006 and counting.

Its been on the yeast for 3 weeks, using a conical so I will take the yeast out on Saturday.

How long should i leave this brew in Secondary for, before I bottle?

Snotpoodle said:

Update: 1.006 and counting.

Its been on the yeast for 3 weeks, using a conical so I will take the yeast out on Saturday.

How long should i leave this brew in Secondary for, before I bottle?

Click to expand...

I would go as long as 2 months, to be honest.

The Tripel I made on the 14th of last month won't be served until November. The higher the OG, the better it tends to age. Balance is key!

EDIT: WHOAH ATTENUATION.

Yeah, you're gonna have to age that sucker. The alcohol % is a behemoth!

JoePro said:

I would go as long as 2 months, to be honest.

The Tripel I made on the 14th of last month won't be served until November. The higher the OG, the better it tends to age. Balance is key!

EDIT: WHOAH ATTENUATION.

Yeah, you're gonna have to age that sucker. The alcohol % is a behemoth!

Click to expand...

Yep, and I added the sugar in the boil, so there was no "yeast stimulation".

Basically we are on 92% attenuation at the moment!

I am leaning more and more towards a full on secondary ferment of at least a month. Several homebrewers have recommended straight to the bottle for aging, is there any benefit to secondary over bottle aging?

Thanks!

Snotpoodle said:

Yep, and I added the sugar in the boil, so there was no "yeast stimulation".

Basically we are on 92% attenuation at the moment!

I am leaning more and more towards a full on secondary ferment of at least a month. Several homebrewers have recommended straight to the bottle for aging, is there any benefit to secondary over bottle aging?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

From my experience, not only does bottle aging tend to lend to a more intimate, personal and sophisticated aesthetic, you actually have more yeast in contact with more beer than bulk aging. Some say that bulk aging puts downward pressure on the yeast, suppressing ester release. I don't know if there's enough volume to really make a difference, but I'm unable to actually give you some science behind it.

Bottles = enhanced character / micro oxygenation due to corking. While this is an article on wine, there are many parallels:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814607002282

Happy brewing, friend!

JoePro said:

From my experience, not only does bottle aging tend to lend to a more intimate, personal and sophisticated aesthetic, you actually have more yeast in contact with more beer than bulk aging. Some say that bulk aging puts downward pressure on the yeast, suppressing ester release. I don't know if there's enough volume to really make a difference, but I'm unable to actually give you some science behind it.

Bottles = enhanced character / micro oxygenation due to corking. While this is an article on wine, there are many parallels:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308814607002282

Happy brewing, friend!

Click to expand...

I don't agree with this.

In general any aging after the first 3+ weeks or so the aging process isn't shooting for ester development from yeast, or benefiting from contact with yeast. In fact the main reason for switching it over to a secondary is to remove the beer/cider/wine from a bulk of the lees to prevent the yeast from autolysis, which can produce off flavors.

As for micro oxygenation, the head space you leave in your bottle is more than adequate. I have read that most wine makers prefer using synthetic corks for wines that will be aged and drank before 5 years of life (pretty sure you aren't going to keep your brew around longer than that). Also that only red wines will show any possible benefit from real corks. Synthetic corks don't breathe (real corks breathe a very, very little amount).

Bulk aging by far is my preferred method. I would venture to say that it creates a more uniform end product, is better protected against temperature swings due to its thermal mass, etc.

Snotpoodle said:

Update: 1.006 and counting.

Its been on the yeast for 3 weeks, using a conical so I will take the yeast out on Saturday.

How long should i leave this brew in Secondary for, before I bottle?

Click to expand...

While some folks leave it on the lees for longer or shorter - I would recommend taking it off the lees after 3 weeks. You don't really get any benefit from leaving it on the yeast longer (see above). you do take on the risk of autolysis, and at that ABV, that is some stressed out yeast.

I agree with CidahMastah on those last posts. +1 on prefer bulk conditioning.

have you tasted the samples? is the alcohol hot tasting or cloaked somewhat?
that is really a low tg for a .090 og

Alcohol is cloaked, I can taste soft fruit, and of course hops - its still rather bitter.

I am going to take the beer of the yeast in 3 days, then leave it in the conical for a while.

Thanks for the advice so far.

Snotpoodle said:

Alcohol is cloaked, I can taste soft fruit, and of course hops - its still rather bitter.

I am going to take the beer of the yeast in 3 days, then leave it in the conical for a while.

Thanks for the advice so far.

Click to expand...

if you have the ability - purge the head space with CO2 (there will still be some O2 in there but less than without purging). I typically secondary when dry hoping, or for my belgian quads, etc. I use kegs though and purge with CO2.

I have a large 80L conical, and the Belgian is only 40L, so this is probably a good idea. I didn't see one bubble through the "airlock" so I imagine all the Co2 has filled the headspace (which is large).

So, do you think a "secondary" off the yeast is necessary for this style, or should i go straight to the bottles and just leave them for 2 months?

Ah forgot that you with your fancy conical don't have to rack..., to get it off the yeast!

Me personally, I would get it off the yeast at ~3 weeks. then age at room temp (55-70F) for about 5-7 more weeks or so and then bottle. You could bulk age it longer, but I would want to start trying it in test bottles to see how it is coming along.

that was the schedule I followed with my quad, and it came out great.

I think there are real benefits to bulk aging something with alcohol that high. If you plan to bottle carb, add your yeast after ~2months when bottling. Personally, I don't prefer the bottle carb over keg carbing, so i would keg carb. I have tried side by side and to me there is no inherent benefit to bottle carbing. Plus I can tinker with the CO2 up and down to suit my liking for the beer, before I bottle.

Update:

I took the yeast off through the bottom tap on the conical. Had to loosen up the truub (mostly hops) with a kebab stick, as it wouldn't drain out! After a little encouragement, I managed to get 2 x 750ml bottles full of yeast + trub that I will be washing.

FG as it stands is 1.006 / 1.007 (from 1.090).

The hectic hop bitterness has faded, and the "soft fruit / pear / raisin" is much more pronounced.

Interestingly, at 11% (and so early), you can't actually taste the alcohol, but you sure as heck can feel it about 2 seconds after you swallow. A nice warm feeling of Belgian awesomeness....

Question:

Since I have taken this off the yeast (well, most of it), when i bottle in 5 - 7 weeks, what yeast should i repitch for bottling? Does this go as bulk into the fermenter, or individually into bottles...help?

Ive only used yeast at bottling after lengthy secondaries (6 months +) I always get good carbonation without it. But you could use any yeast. 1/2 a teaspoon of dry ale yeast, rehydrated in water and added to the bottling bucket.
Did you drink the sample I gave you ?

I'm not sure of the procedure for ales, but during lager fermentation in Cylindro-Conical Vessels the yeast/trub is dumped several times (2-4 times) according to schedule.

You should ideally repitch the original yeast at 1-2 million cells per mL of finished beer. An alcohol-tolerant flavor-neutral ale yeast strain or flavor-neutral wine/champagne yeast can be substituted. I've had success with Lalvin EC-1118; ferments fast and clean forming a nice tight cake. Some people have success without repitching.

Cold conditioning at 50F for a few weeks prior to bottling will speed up clarification and maturation.