PVC Tower Cooling Solution

Williams 728
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I thought I would share a couple of pics from my build, I have been using picnic taps for the last year and finally put in a tower.
I want to thank the OP for the copper tube idea, installed today and seems to work great. Seems to be conducting the cold very well....

Kegerator002Medium-1.jpg

Kegerator003Medium.jpg

Kegerator004Medium.jpg

I put insulation around each tube, one for each faucet and this made it difficult to get both into the tower. But they are not going anywere now.
Cheers and thanks all. I am cooling my latest batch now and I am sure that I will be back with line balancing questions.
CHeers all
 
HA! Found it! I just spent 30 minutes searching for this thread. I'm finally getting my butt in gear and installing a tower on my Oster. If it works as good as reported I think this is a great alternative to the cooling fan method which I was going to use but wasn't too fond of. Heading out to pick up the last few odds and ends now...
 
Any problems with the copper pipes sliding down into the refrigerator?

I'll be using spray foam but I'm not sure if that will help keep them in place vertically. I'm planning on using about 2' of pipe for each line; either 2' straight down into the fridge or about 1' from the tower into the refrigerator and then using a 90 degree elbow and running the other foot of pipe across the ceiling of the fridge.
 
Thanks for bringing this thread back up Drinkswell. I will definitely be using this method to cool the tower I will be building soon.
 
About to build either a tower or coffin box myself...but with 4 taps. Is there any good reason not to just get one bigger diameter copper pipe and put all the lines in there, or two larger pipes with 2 each?

Also, assuming most people are using about 10' of line per tap, with probably 8-9' inside the fridge, does the beer in the fridge not transfer its (lack) of heat to the 10% that is in the tower? I know almost nothing about physics so maybe cold liquid sinks too??
 
This looks awesome man. I'm going to do this, but I can't now since I have beer running through both of my lines. As soon as I go dry, I'm going to do this project.
 
I'm not an engineer or anything so take this with a grain of salt...
tandpbrewing said:
About to build either a tower or coffin box myself...but with 4 taps. Is there any good reason not to just get one bigger diameter copper pipe and put all the lines in there, or two larger pipes with 2 each?
Click to expand...
I think you want to maximize the copper->line contact and minimize air space, using a single pipe won't allow for this.
tandpbrewing said:
Also, assuming most people are using about 10' of line per tap, with probably 8-9' inside the fridge, does the beer in the fridge not transfer its (lack) of heat to the 10% that is in the tower? I know almost nothing about physics so maybe cold liquid sinks too??
Click to expand...
I think if this was actually the case, nobody would bother cooling the tower to begin with as it would be unnecessary. I'm only using 6' lines myself, but I run at a higher temperature and lower PSI and carbonation level than most people.
 
I just built my tower for my keggerator and used 3/4 instead of 1/2 copper to run my beer lines through but it seems to work quite well. With my 5-6 foot lines I get maybe a half inch extra foam on the first pint but it's nothing to worry about. Thanks for this tip it seems like a better idea then having a fan run continuously. It's so much nicer to have a real tap rather then using picnic taps, I'm loving it!
 
I don't understand the objections to using a fan and having it running full time. The fan I have only uses a few cents of electricity per day and it works very well. Relative to the power consumption of the kegerator itself, the fan juice is practically negligible.
 
Catt22 said:
I don't understand the objections to using a fan and having it running full time. The fan I have only uses a few cents of electricity per day and it works very well. Relative to the power consumption of the kegerator itself, the fan juice is practically negligible.
Click to expand...
I addressed my own reason in the OP, but in addition to that I can think of a couple others. It's one less moving part that can break down for one thing. Plus, a few cents a day is a few cents less in the bank, it adds up over time. Why spend money you don't need to? ;)
 
Catt22 said:
I don't understand the objections to using a fan and having it running full time. The fan I have only uses a few cents of electricity per day and it works very well. Relative to the power consumption of the kegerator itself, the fan juice is practically negligible.
Click to expand...

My decision had nothing to do with cost. It's a simpler and effective alternative to the cooling fan in which I didn't have to build something that requires wiring or have to fix it when it breaks.
 
Catt22 said:
I don't understand the objections to using a fan and having it running full time. The fan I have only uses a few cents of electricity per day and it works very well. Relative to the power consumption of the kegerator itself, the fan juice is practically negligible.
Click to expand...

However, compared to the operating cost of copper pipe the cost is massive.

Relativity strikes again.

Copper pipe isn't going to break down either. Copper pipe requires no understanding of how to make a safe electrical circuit. Finally, the cost of a few feet of copper pipe is probably about the same as the cost of a small fan and some electrical components.

So you see that there are lots of good reasons to use pipe instead of a fan up to and including the fact that simple, elegant engineering is beautiful.
 
Wow am I glad I found this thread! I have a tower arriving on Monday that I was going to build a fan unit for. This sounds like a much better alternative.
 
Yeah I agree with the others. A fan is just something else to break or short out. Even if the electricity use is not very much I know how often computer fans break so I would rather not have to change a fan every few years in the keggerator.
 
Another thing to consider with a fan- if you have a tap tower that is relatively uninsulated, AND you are cooling the faucets, you are going to be absorbing a ton of heat there. With the copper tubes, insulation of some sort, and a completely passive system, the losses will be much, much less. I think the difference in power consumption will be bigger than just the power to run the fan. This is a great solution, and I wish I had found it sooner. :)
 
I think the pipe he used for the tower is actually ABS. Ingenious use of an upside-down toilet flange to mount it!
 
I have made this mod, but I found it's very sensitive to the fridge's air temp, which sucks in a Sanyo 4912M (due to the cold plate on the back design). Right now I have about 1' of each tube into the fridge, but opening it for a few minutes is enough to bring it back to almost room temp, since there's nothing to keep the cold. And I'm opening it a lot right now, since I just made it and am still tinkering.

I had a few ideas for this:

1) Elbow back at the top, then run about 6" close to the cold plate. This might cause the beer line to freeze. I could use a T instead of elbow, but the the tube would still reach sub-freeze temperatures and conduct that to the beer line, so it would be close to the same thing. Also, this is still sensitive to air temperature. If I open the fridge when the compressor is off, it'll be the same problem

2) Tape a blue ice pack (the bag one, not the brick one) to the tubes (inside the fridge). The easy way is to just tape it around them just as they are now, and hope it's enough. The really overengineered way is to make a copper "manifold shelf" about 1" from the top, and place the pack on top of that, maximizing contact surface. That might be overkill...

Right now my plan is to get a pack, do the lazy tape thing and see how it goes. If I do end up needing to change the tubing, I'm gonna end up mixing these up and making a manifold + ice pack close to the cold plate.

Edit: OK, I may have done something stupid. Instead of drilling a big hole I just drilled 2 5/8" holes to fit just the tubes, snugly (my idea was to avoid leaving the tower open into the fridge... my tower insulation starts on top of the plastic cover). But this means the tubes are directly touching the metal on top of the refrigerator, and the wood on top of that. And that's 2 inches from the hot spot from the freon line. The freon line might be heating the tubes from the top. I think this weekend I'm gonna have to go ahead and use the hole saw.
 
qvantamon said:
I have made this mod, but I found it's very sensitive to the fridge's air temp, which sucks in a Sanyo 4912M (due to the cold plate on the back design). Right now I have about 1' of each tube into the fridge, but opening it for a few minutes is enough to bring it back to almost room temp, since there's nothing to keep the cold. And I'm opening it a lot right now, since I just made it and am still tinkering.

I had a few ideas for this:

1) Elbow back at the top, then run about 6" close to the cold plate. This might cause the beer line to freeze. I could use a T instead of elbow, but the the tube would still reach sub-freeze temperatures and conduct that to the beer line, so it would be close to the same thing. Also, this is still sensitive to air temperature. If I open the fridge when the compressor is off, it'll be the same problem

2) Tape a blue ice pack (the bag one, not the brick one) to the tubes (inside the fridge). The easy way is to just tape it around them just as they are now, and hope it's enough. The really overengineered way is to make a copper "manifold shelf" about 1" from the top, and place the pack on top of that, maximizing contact surface. That might be overkill...

Right now my plan is to get a pack, do the lazy tape thing and see how it goes. If I do end up needing to change the tubing, I'm gonna end up mixing these up and making a manifold + ice pack close to the cold plate.

Edit: OK, I may have done something stupid. Instead of drilling a big hole I just drilled 2 5/8" holes to fit just the tubes, snugly (my idea was to avoid leaving the tower open into the fridge... my tower insulation starts on top of the plastic cover). But this means the tubes are directly touching the metal on top of the refrigerator, and the wood on top of that. And that's 2 inches from the hot spot from the freon line. The freon line might be heating the tubes from the top. I think this weekend I'm gonna have to go ahead and use the hole saw.
Click to expand...

Let us know how that turns out. Mine could be colder on the first pour as well.
 
qvantamon said:
...The freon line might be heating the tubes from the top. I think this weekend I'm gonna have to go ahead and use the hole saw.
Click to expand...
It sounds to me like this is probably the case, the heat would definitely beat out the cool for the temperature of the pipe. Making the hole large enough to eliminate any direct contact should make a huge difference I would think.
 
I'm planning on doing this with my Danby. I've got a couple of ideas I want to throw out there for comments:

1) use an adpater to increase the size of the pipe at the faucet end, and actually have the copper contact the shank to help keep it and the faucet cold (my setup is a box on top of the counter under which the little fridge sits, so I've got room to make the bend.)

2) use a T at the lower end where the beer hose comes into the fridge and run copper from the side branch -- I was going to just put it in front of the cold plate, but I hadn't thought about freezing. Now I'm thinking it would work well to immerse the copper in bucket of water set on the compressor shelf next to the CO2 tank -- this would eliminate the effect of the air temp on the copper.
 
Sorry to reopen an old thread--has anyone tried this with a T tower? I'm building a T tower right now out of PVC and was going to cool it with copper. I am wondering if I will have to put 90 degree elbows in the tower and a short piece of copper to cool the beer line all the way to the shank or if it will be just fine to stop the copper where it enters the T. I plan on using some attic insulation in the top part and blow in insulation in the tower. I have a Danby kegerator with the cold plate in the back if that helps at all.
 
BigJay13 said:
Sorry to reopen an old thread--has anyone tried this with a T tower? I'm building a T tower right now out of PVC and was going to cool it with copper. I am wondering if I will have to put 90 degree elbows in the tower and a short piece of copper to cool the beer line all the way to the shank or if it will be just fine to stop the copper where it enters the T. I plan on using some attic insulation in the top part and blow in insulation in the tower. I have a Danby kegerator with the cold plate in the back if that helps at all.
Click to expand...

You won't have to, but if it's not too much trouble you might as well do it. The problem is that the beer that sits in the lines there warm will just turn into foam when you crack the lever open. Now if you're only going to have an inch or two of exposed hose, then it won't be too bad... maybe only the first 1/4 to 1/2 of a pint would be pretty foamy. If you have more exposed than that, I'd go with the bends and extend the copper as far as you can go.
 
MacBruver said:
You won't have to, but if it's not too much trouble you might as well do it. The problem is that the beer that sits in the lines there warm will just turn into foam when you crack the lever open. Now if you're only going to have an inch or two of exposed hose, then it won't be too bad... maybe only the first 1/4 to 1/2 of a pint would be pretty foamy. If you have more exposed than that, I'd go with the bends and extend the copper as far as you can go.
Click to expand...

It looks like I'll have between 2 and 3 inches of exposed hose after it travels through 15 inches of pipe. I tried to put elbows on the end of the pipe but it looked like it bent the hose too sharply--I'm headed to home depot so I'll pick up a 45 degree and I'll see if that can get me closer.
 
The gradual bend created by a spring bender might be the only way to get beer line around the bend.
 
Not sure if this thread is too old....but

This will be my second kegerator build, the first was a small chest freezer (2years or so ago). The freezer died so now I want something nicer looking/smaller (apartment). I got a DAR440 4.4cuft mini fridge and I've put my dual tap tower on. In my previous build i rigged up a small pc fan blowing directly up some 3"? dryer type tubing it worked...sorta.

That defiantly wont fit in the smaller fridge so i'm looking for something smaller/cleaner. This copper tubing idea would be great. I was planning to run it back toward the cold plate (thinking I could remove insulation at the top of the tower to combat freezing).

My real question however is, the only one who reported any results was Brad, and he serves his beer a 55oF. Anyone have any tower temps/results when serving at ~38oF?

Running a fan/blower for me is no problem, I already have a micro controller for temp/flow monitoring (originally, adding more to the new kegerator). But I like how clean/simple the copper is.
 
I haven't taken any temp readings of my beer but the copper tubing set up is pretty effective. My beer is cold enough to the point where the beer is probably colder than I prefer and I drink it slowly so it can warm up. I need to adjust the thermostat but I just haven't gotten around to it.
 
Whats your setup like? Is it a mini-fridge or chest freezer? How/how much copper did you run inside?

Any pictures?
 
AllanMar said:
Whats your setup like? Is it a mini-fridge or chest freezer? How/how much copper did you run inside?

Any pictures?
Click to expand...

No pics, sorry. I have an Oster 5.0 cf mini fridge with a single tower with 2 Perlicks. I believe I used 22" or 24" sections of copper and fit about 12" into the tower and the other 10-12" in the fridge. My set up looks similar to Keithsipa's pics earlier in this thread only my fridge is smaller so everything's a bit cramped but it fits and I don't have any problems.
 
I did the copper tubing thing and it has worked great. The tubes stick about 2 inches down into the kegerator and end at the top of the T tower where the lines have to change direction. I'm very happy with this solution and wouldn't even consider using a fan and a hose.
 
Props for this post Brad!
I read all the info from everyone and agree on your rig. I had planned to do the same thing on mine. I have an older mini and was going to run som tube over to the freezer part since I plan on moving and relocated this I have thought maybe even taking some tube and cutting a notch out of the tube and slide it (the freezer foil part between the tube) to have it not freeze the tube but make it conduct the colder temps and pass it on to the tower/lines. Mind you I plan on running a little more tube since its gonna be colder running between the freezer foil.

thanks again on the thread and everyones OP's are welcome!
 
bradsul said:
5408-tower_cooling_pipes.jpg
Click to expand...


Could anyone tell me what the piece is called that connects the 3" PVC to the fridge? Preferably a link to something comparable at Home Depot or Lowes for someone with my non-handyman status. I've heard it referred to as a toilet ring before, but any search of that gives me no results.

I just hate going into those giant stores not knowing exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.
 
mosquitocontrol said:
Could anyone tell me what the piece is called that connects the 3" PVC to the fridge? Preferably a link to something comparable at Home Depot or Lowes for someone with my non-handyman status. I've heard it referred to as a toilet ring before, but any search of that gives me no results.

I just hate going into those giant stores not knowing exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.
Click to expand...

It's called a closet or toilet flange.
 

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