Irish Red

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Sigafoos

Sigafoos

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There seems to be a surprising lack of information on this style around... nothing in Designing Great Beers, and only a few recipes here. I found jezter's BeyerDyke Irish Red, but when I plug the data into BeerAlchemy I get a lot higher OG, FG, etc. Beerrific gave me a good one that I've modified a decent amount to make it simpler.

Since I don't have a mill, even pounds of ingredients make more sense because I won't be wasting anything... I have a few pounds of grain that I let go to waste after my first AG because I didn't brew for a while, sadly. So while I'd really like to have 6 oz of roasted barley, I wound up taking it out because the rest of the pound would probably go to waste.

Here's what I have thus far:

11 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb Caramel 120L

1.25 oz Goldings @60
Wyeast 1084-Irish Ale

Assuming 5.5 gallons at 60% efficiency (it'll be my second AG so I expect to screw things up), that's:

OG: 1.052
FG: 1.014
IBU: 20.5
Color: 16.4 SRM (using Morey; I'm not really sure of the difference, so it's BeerAlchemy's default)

Everything fits within BJCP guidelines. My only worry is that the description says 'generally caramel-like but occasionally toasty or toffee-like in nature,' which would be I assume from the barley. Under ingredients, it says 'Generally has a bit of roasted barley to provide reddish color and dry roasted finish.'

So, while horribly simple, does the recipe look at least sort of ok? And is the barley really necessary, or would it be a lot better with it? I'd like the toastiness, but until I can convince SWMBO to let me get a grain mill I think I may have to be more 'pound of this, pound of that.'
 
why don't you buy a pound of it, uncrushed, and save the remaining 3/4 lb or so? an irish red should definitely have a touch of roasted barley in there and the rest of it will last for months in a sealed container.
 
Well, if I buy it uncrushed, how will I crush it? I've heard you can use a blender or something but that seems... bad. Like I said, I'd like a crusher, and will probably be able to sucker someone into getting it for me for my birthday, but that's two months away and I've got brewing to do afore then :)

If a red needs the barley then I'll include it... even if I have to waste .75 lbs of it (which I'll do my best to avoid; maybe do a stout to age til Christmastime). The issue I run into then is with color. Even taking out the caramel, 11 lbs of MO and .25 of roasted barley gives me a color of 18.8 which is over style. Is that the sort of thing that's fine? I'm still new to color, so maybe it's nothing to worry about.
 
When you're talking about small amounts like less than a pound, can't you get by with a rolling pin? Not an AG brewer here (yet) but just a thought.
 
woah! i didn't realize how much of the Crystal 120L you have in there. i wouldn't use more than say 1/4 lb of each of that and the roasted barley.

if you buy uncrushed, just use a wine bottle or belgian beer bottle and roll it over the grains inside a ziplock bag. it's very easy to do with small quantities. plus you can have a leftover's batch.

i personally would just save the remaining and make a stout ;)
 
Would that work? It'd certainly be nice for grains under a pound.

I adjusted the recipe to include 1/4 lb of barley. I took the caramel down to a pound of 10L to not affect the color as much but still give the 'generally caramel-like' flavor and aroma. That puts it at 19.4 for the color, which is 1.4 over but I expect not a huge deal.

Another question, while I'm being annoying: the style seems to expect a higher attenuating yeast (my OG is in the middle of the range, but FG is at the very top). Is the Wyeast Irish Ale not appropriate?

Edit: Damn, you got one in before me :) 1/4 lb of the 120 is darker than 1lb of the 10L, so which would be preferable? And thanks for affirming that I can crush my own <1lb grains... that'll make my life easier :)
 
120 is also used mostly for color in this recipe, as it will give off a bit of red. you could just knock it down to 2 or 3 ounces. you could still keep a small amount of the 10L as well. play with the quantities and see what you'd like to do. i like to try and keep my stuff to style usually, but as long as it's close you'd probably be ok for competition or whatever. do what works for you.

i like the irish ale yeast for certain beers, such as a few of my stouts, but not for a red. it leaves it a little sweet with a diacetyl flavor. wouldn't be my preference for an irish ale (i've made a few with it and wasn't too into it.) i like my irish red drier...i'd go with nottingham. cheaper, too ;)
 
Sigafoos said:
There seems to be a surprising lack of information on this style around... nothing in Designing Great Beers, and only a few recipes here. I found jezter's BeyerDyke Irish Red, but when I plug the data into BeerAlchemy I get a lot higher OG, FG, etc. Beerrific gave me a good one that I've modified a decent amount to make it simpler.

Since I don't have a mill, even pounds of ingredients make more sense because I won't be wasting anything... I have a few pounds of grain that I let go to waste after my first AG because I didn't brew for a while, sadly. So while I'd really like to have 6 oz of roasted barley, I wound up taking it out because the rest of the pound would probably go to waste.

Here's what I have thus far:

11 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb Caramel 120L

1.25 oz Goldings @60
Wyeast 1084-Irish Ale

Assuming 5.5 gallons at 60% efficiency (it'll be my second AG so I expect to screw things up), that's:

OG: 1.052
FG: 1.014
IBU: 20.5
Color: 16.4 SRM (using Morey; I'm not really sure of the difference, so it's BeerAlchemy's default)

Everything fits within BJCP guidelines. My only worry is that the description says 'generally caramel-like but occasionally toasty or toffee-like in nature,' which would be I assume from the barley. Under ingredients, it says 'Generally has a bit of roasted barley to provide reddish color and dry roasted finish.'

So, while horribly simple, does the recipe look at least sort of ok? And is the barley really necessary, or would it be a lot better with it? I'd like the toastiness, but until I can convince SWMBO to let me get a grain mill I think I may have to be more 'pound of this, pound of that.'
Click to expand...


From my experience Roasted Barley, while giving you some color will not taste very good. The pound of 120L is perfect for color and a wonderful roasted caramel flavor. Do yourself a favor and add about 6%AA of a citrussy hop as well. I would take the Golding down to an ounce and do the following hop schedule:

Bittering: 1/2 oz Golding / 1/2 oz Cascade (or another Citrussy hop that equals approx. 3%AA)
Last 15 minutes: 1/4 oz Golding / 1/4 oz Cascade (or another Citrussy hop that equals approx. 1.5%AA)
last 5 minutes: 1/4 oz Golding / 1/4 oz Cascade (or another Citrussy hop that equals approx 1.5%AA)

This will make a very yummy red.

Forrest
 
wouldn't the citrusy hops make it more of an american red ale? not that it matters. my last irish red used chocolate malt and 120L (no roasted barley) with fuggle and EKG. it was fantastic.
 
I was really happy with the notty I used in my first Irish Red. Even fermented a bit on the high side at 68 F.

Also, tough to argue with AHB, but I stuck with Williamette. I don't even use citrusy hops in my American amber ale recipe, but that one will be brewed to style by the numbers only. It's meant to still have the flavor profile of an Irish red. I'll save the citrusy hop flavor for APA/IPA.
 
DeathBrewer said:
wouldn't the citrusy hops make it more of an american red ale? not that it matters. my last irish red used chocolate malt and 120L (no roasted barley) with fuggle and EKG. it was fantastic.
Click to expand...

My American Red has Cascade throughout the whole recipe and a lot more hops. This is a Goldings/Cascade blend. If you are trying to make it taste like Killians, my recipe for that beer is virtually the same but dumbed down on the hops.

Comments on my Irish Red from customers:

I brewed this as my first beer and after appropriate aging (mine was over 2 months) in the bottle, it tastes wonderful! I would say it is even better than any commercial red ales I have tried before.

Excellent beer! One of the best that I've ever brewed, highly recommended.

This is my favorite. I've brewed this 8 times. Richer than Killians and sharper, not heavier. Very little to no bitter aftertaste.

Fantastic Irish Red Ale. Way better than Killian's. Has a malty sweetness with good hop flavor.

Forrest
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. I think I'll be going back to the pound of 120 and following Forrest's hop schedule. That brings the IBUs to 23.1, for what it's worth.

I'll hopefully be brewing this next Saturday (though probably not live). I'll let everyone know how it turns out!
 
Sounds like you are on the right track following Forrest's recipe / advise.

For what it's worth, I tried the BeyerDyke Irish Red and liked it - more like a Smithwicks (with a more pronounced fruitiness) than a Killians.

Here's my review from the recipe thread:

"I changed this beer only slightly, due to my lower efficiency, and used a few more hops, about 22 IBU's. Falls within all parameter for Irish Red Ale Classification. Brewed 12/30/08. Came out very close to gravities stated in original recipe, the measured gravities were: OG 1.048 FG 1.014

This beer has developed nicely - I seem to like it more with every bottle I try. It has a dark red almost brown color. Very smooth flavor, malty, creamy with just enough hop backbone. Easy drinking. No heavy or sharp flavors to be found. Actually lighter in flavor than I expected. Somewhat comparable to Smithwicks in color and body.

Don't ruin your palette with a heavily hopped beer before this one! I made the mistake of grabing one of these Irish Ales after drinking the last IPA in a case I was drinking. The subtle flavors here are best enjoyed with a clean palette."

Good luck with your Irish Red. Experiment!
 
Not to disagree with Forrest, but with 1lb of 120L and those hops you're not going to make an Irish Red

Maybe that is why there is so little info on on it. No one actually makes one;)
 
I bought indredients the other day for a red type ale.

6lbs amber malt extract
1lb crystal 80
.25 chocolate
california ale yeast

the hops I am a little sceptical on though, I had to get what the store had...ended up with simcoe for bittering and sterling for aroma.

i plan on doing .5oz simcoe (10%AA) at 60 minutes then 1oz of sterling (6%AA) at 5 minutes. It comes out to high 20's lower 30's for IBU's.

my question is what does crystal actually do? I thought it just added color. and are my hops going to be too "strong" and make it taste more like an IPA?
 
niquejim said:
Not to disagree with Forrest, but with 1lb of 120L and those hops you're not going to make an Irish Red

Maybe that is why there is so little info on on it. No one actually makes one;)
Click to expand...

My Irish Red ale is what customers perceive an Irish Red ale should taste like.
IMHO adding chocolate or roasted barley to change the color works but it does change the flavor and not in a good way. IMHO

Forrest
 
Is that for an Irish red? Knowing practically nothing about the style (but anal-retentively obsessing over it for the past few days), it seems like an upper 20s IBU would be too bitter. The BJCP guidelines for an Irish Red says 17-28. Also, a lot of the people I talk to (I've enlisted the help of my LHBC, seeing as they have a vested interest in me brewing well since they have to drink the result ;)) say that you only need a small amount of bittering hops. My recipe has changed 3-4 times since this morning -- I'm serious, I'm going crazy with this -- but right now it looks like I'll have 20 IBUs or so added at the start of the boil.

Again, my knowledge is only from an obsessive reading on the subject in the past few days, but it seems like the crystal gives both color and a caramel flavor (which is why it's also called caramel 120L). I'm considering bumping up the amount back to a pound (it's gone from 1lb to 1/4 lb and back a few times) and lowering the color so that the roasted barley (still at 1/4 lb) doesn't make it too dark.

This is a good exercise for me in recipe formulation and RDWHAHBing... my brain likes to know the 'right' way to do things, and it seems like there's enough dissent that I can go about this a few different ways. Or, as is actually the case, I can try to reconcile five valid recipes from five knowledgeable sources until something starts to leak out of my ears. I fully expect to change the recipe at least once or twice a day until Thursday or Friday when I go into my LHBS and buy the ingredients :)
 

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