Very Wild Saison ECY20

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smokinghole

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Well I brewed up my recipe of a spelt saison this past Friday. I had planned on ending up with 8 gal of wort at 1.052ish gravity. I instead ended up with just over 6 gal of wort at that gravity. I had a brew pump mishap due to not having the fittings I ordered and tried to brew in a jury rigged manner with my new pump. That was a bad idea.

Anyhow after I cooled my wort down and ran it off into two separate 5 gal fermentors with about 3 gal each I had a thought. Each fermentor will give me roughly a case after loss to trub and such. One fermentor got my ECY03 washed yeast from the last saison I made with rye. The other fermentor is now fermenting with ECY20. I decided that I would use part of the culture in this low gravity 3 gal batch with out using a starter of any kind. I figure in three months or so both fermentors will be done with the ECY20 showing some nice sourness.

I sort of came up with my own mash regime for brett fermenations after reading Wild Brews, Farmhouse Ales, and Brew Like a Monk. When using 30% flaked adjunct I infuse 2qts/lb for a 120F protein rest, then sacch rest temp is acheived through a wort only decoction bringing the mash up to 147-149 for 1.5-2hrs. After the sacch rest I pull off another wort only decoction and raise the mash temp up to 158-160 to dextrinize the remainder of any sugar possibly left. After that has settled I start running the mash off with no mash out step and vorlauf to clear it up for about 2-3 gal worth. I heat my sparge water to 185-190 because the measured temp at the end of my sparge hose is about 170-175 after temp loss along the way. The conversion enzymes get denatured in the kettle. This mashing method has given me good fermentable worts that allows the Saccharomyces yeast to take the wort down to about 1.010. Then over 2-3 months the brett has takes it down rest of the way. This mash takes inspiration from BLAM mentioning that Orval has no mash out step. Then the "rising infusion mash" mentioned in Farmhouse Ales that Saison DuPont uses. Finally the wort only decoctions take inspiration from the body building german techniques along with the dextrinous mashing techniques outlined in Wild Brews for lambics. I think it gives a nice balance of quick fermenation for the Sacch yeasts and food for the slower Bretts. This is my first time using this mash for a mixed culture containing bacteria though. So we shall see how long it takes.

I have been on a mission to create a very tasty rustic saison. I figured between using 30% spelt, 25ish ibus of low AA hops, and now a very mixed culture will get me as close as I'll come to historic saisons. Depending on how the ECY20 batch progresses I will brew up another batch this time as a full 8 gal recipe getting the ECY20 so I can have some nicely tart saison to go through the summer.
 
Sounds good. Do you run off how ever many gallons of wort and heat it up then run it back through the mashing process again to achieve the proper mash temp step up? I'm hoping the US-04 in my brown (mashed at 155) leaves enough sugar behind for the brett. I've had a lot of times using 04 or 05 where they get the mash down to .018 or so but never seem to get it drier than that. But with the bigger pitches I've been doing, it's done a better job drying out the beer and not leaving much behind. My 3724/wild yeast saison got down so far that it left nothing for the brett C. No further drop in gravity. No sugar left = no brett character. I might try using a decoction mash for my next bretted beer. I should probably get Wild Brews to gleen more info. But I'm hoping to get there with time on my own.
 
I use beersmith and the decoction calculation will say (based on mash volumes) to decoct 2 gal of wort to raise the mash temp from 120F to 148F. That's just an example but I'll just run the wort into a small 4 gal pot. I measure with a pitcher. Then when it gets to boiling I add it back to the mash to bring the main mash temp up. This denatures some enzymes along the way but not enough to prevent conversion. I only really do this for brett beers and maybe when I use 3711 again I'll use it for that.
 
The krausen on this fermentation is pretty crazy looking. The half that used ECY03 is down all the way and just minor surface bubbles. The ECY20 fermentor has a good 4" worth of giant bubbles hanging out on top.

I can't wait to brew up my big flanders brown on Saturday to use the ECY20 strain.
 
HPIM2144.jpg


There it is so far. Yeast pitched at the same time. The ECY03 carboy has no krausen anymore. The ECY20 is on the right. I will update with deflated pellicle pics as this progresses.
 
I did a gravity check this morning. The ECY03 is already down to 1.003. So that will be going in bottles very soon. The ECY20 is only at 1.010 and is in a sick period. It poured out like maple syrup. So the gravity is likely lower but the viscosity of the beer is throwing off the gravity reading. I will obviously have to wait a few months till the brett chews up the ropiness from the pedio to bottle the ECY20 portion. ECY03 has a very weak dusty pellicle and the ECY20 doesn't have any pellicle to speak of at this point. In fact this was the first I did anything with either beer since I stuck them in the fermentors.
 
I got my ecy yeasts in yesterday and Can't wait to use them. Bug country, flemish ale, newark ale, saison brassiere
 
This will be my first flanders. Is there a recipe or grain bill you could recommend to me?
 
Here's what I'm doing. It's based on what I have on hand and instead of yellow maize I'm using purple maize. The mash will be a split mash with the corn and 10% of the base malt. Hold that at mash temp for a bit then raise to a boil for 20-30 min. Add to main mash that is at protein rest temp of about 122. The corn mash should raise the main mash up to a decent sacch rest temp.


Type: All Grain Date: 7/4/2011
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal Brewer: Adam Cole
Boil Size: 7.86 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (10 gal) and Cooler (52 qt)
End of Boil Volume 6.76 gal Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 6.00 gal Est Mash Efficiency 86.7 %
Fermentation: My Aging Profile Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6 lbs Vienna Malt (Franco Belges) (3.5 SRM) Grain 1 48.0 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Purple Maize (30.0 SRM) Grain 2 20.0 %
1 lbs Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 4 8.0 %
12.0 oz Carared (20.0 SRM) Grain 6 6.0 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 3 12.0 %
12.0 oz Caramunich Malt (45.0 SRM) Grain 5 6.0 %
2.00 oz Strisslespalt [2.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 7 15.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg Flemish Ale (East Coast Yeast #ECY02) [50.00 ml] Yeast 8 -

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.058 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.006 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.9 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.6 %
Bitterness: 15.8 IBUs Calories: 32.0 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 15.9 SRM
 
That looks good. I have 40 lbs of flaked corn so I could use that in place of the maze and use a decoction mash to hit my temps
 
The brett half is nicely cleared and probably almost done. The ECY20 batch is in its sick stage. The first and last time I took a gravity reading it was at 1.010 but it was at the sick period and I don't think that viscosity allows for accurate measuring. I am getting the snotty pellicle bubbles right now in small rafts. It should be fully covered in pellicle in a week or two I think. I think it has about two more months.

Also I got my purple corn for the flemish ale batch. I will brew that after new years when I can hopefully make it to Princeton Homebrew and pick up a culture of ECY02.
 
I bottled up the ECY03 half. It was crystal clear at bottling. I only bottled up 24 bottles worth of the ECY03. The rest was ran into the ECY20 version because I want a larger amount of the potentially sour version. I will brew up another batch of spelt saison as soon as this one is bottled up. I just need to buy the spelt in bulk this time because locally it was $4/lb.
 
Only place I could find it was a health food store and it was organic. I will be ordering some from Vitaspelt soon. I can get 25lbs shipped for like $35 or something like that.
 
I just ordered some from them and 10 lbs came to $23.94 shipped. I had to call it in since the website wouldn't allow me to choose ground shipping so it was quoting like $38 for shipping alone.
 
Well after talking about this beer today I decided to take a gravity reading, taste, and transfer to secondary. I should have transferred a while ago but the the primary had so much gunk stuck to the sides I couldn't see if it was bacterial haze or just protein haze. Anyway the beer is weighing in at 1.004 compared to 1.010 a month ago. There is a noticeable acidity that should become more apparent the drier it gets. It still has a slick viscosity but much less than before.
 
Well this thing is done fermenting. I now have it sitting in my coldish garage to get it to hopefully drop clear and bright like my ECY03 half. It has a nice sour note and a touch of hop bitterness which is exactly what I wanted. I hope it doesn't take forever to drop brite because I want to package and brew it up again.
 
See I thought that ECY20 (and Bugfarm for that matter) would take alot longer then ~3 months. Maybe I will be reevaluating my timeframe on some of my beers going atm.
 
I mashed it like a saison which makes it easier to ferment. It took longer than the brett blend ECY03 but not a year. Last gravity check was 1.004 and it's at 1.002 now. If it shaves 2 gravity points off in the bottle that's fine it's going in champagne thickness bottles.
 
Let us know if you get the sulfur note after bottling. I got it in a blonde with Bugfarm 4. Pre bottling great, after bottling, sulfur until 6 months. Vinnie told me he gets the same thing in Temptation. Seems to only happen in blonde sour beers.
 
Bottled up and drinking the remainder of the bottling bucket. I like the way this tastes a whole lot. It has a good moderate sourness and a slight hop bitterness with a nice hop aroma now. I can't wait till I pop one of these. I will likely try one in May sometime. I bottled in six 375ml corked bottles, 10 - 750ml corked bottles, and a big daddy 3L bottle. I also had enough to toss some in a couple heavy crown cap bottles. Which will be my sample bottles as the months go by.
 
If you had to change anything about the recipe would you. I'm asking because I'm thinking about doing 10 gallons.
 
At this point no. I'm planning on doing another batch very soon and I'm only changing one thing. The next batch with have flaked wheat instead of spelt because I have a bunch I need to use up. So that won't be a huge difference flavor wise anyhow. I am going to split it between more ECY20 and the other fermentor will be a total gamble. I've saved all my sour beer cultures in a jar. I've fed it periodically. I added a bunch of belgian sacch strains, and I plan to pitch that wild belgian cocktail along side the ECY20. That way I'll have a nice 10gal helping after fermentation is done.
 
This had developed pedio rope in the bottle (exopolysaccharide complex) and I'm happy to say the viscosity that developed in the bottle is gone. It has a nice mouthfeel and good body to balance the sweetness. That might be a slight residue from the exopolysaccharide complex but I can't 100% tell. Either way I really like it. The beer is sour but not smack you in your face sour. The 25ibus I think it's a nice a nice feature with the beer that should be interesting as it develops in the bottle. I sort of based this idea on what I've read of the old De Ranke XX Bitter. Can't wait to crack the 3L bottle sometime next year.
 
I'm sorry if I missed this, but did you use flaked spelt or "whole berries?" I'm considering doing a saison with spelt very soon and the only spelt I can find so far is whole, unmalted. Glad to hear that it's tasting nice! How would you compare it to a saison made with wheat or rye?
 
It was a mix of flaked and whole raw "berries". I couldn't get 4lbs of either at the store I went and bought them at. In the future I would likely just get flaked because I don't have a mill that deals with hard wheat like grains that well. I tried raw wheat/spelt in my monster mill but it sort of binds up because of how hard the grains are compared to barley. Maybe if I had a fixed motor to drive it instead of my cordless drill I'd fare better but for the time being my wrist/drill cannot mill the whole raw wheat/spelt grains.
 
Well I'm giving a sour saison another go. I liked the results so much from the first one I'm doing it again only this time I brewed up 16 gallons and dropped the gravity a tad. I added a decent amount of oats and rye to try and thicken up the 1.043 beer. I also did dedcoction mashing to provide a little structure and body to the beer hopefully. I am splitting the 16 gal into 8 gal of brett trois and 8 gal of wild stuff. Will report back in about 6-7 months how the new batch turns out.
 
Sounds awesome, Im 22 days in primary on a Brett Trois table saison (1.045) of which I also pitched 1 gallon of the same wort with ECY20 since I hadnt used that wash in quite some time and wanted to wake it up a bit.
 
22 days on the table saison? Isn't it finished yet or are you just waiting for it to clear up? I know it's very non-flocculant based on how dusty it looked in the tube and how easy it was to re-suspend the culture in my starter flask.

You will want way more than 1 gal of that trust me. I only ended up with 4 gal of my first go, and regret not making the whole thing with ECY20.
 
Yea just waiting for the Trois to drop, Im thinking about hitting it with some gelatin to help it out a bit. Although I do see some very slight activity still as I'll see something shoot up from the bottom if I stare at the fermenter for a minute, but at 1.004 Im confident in bottling soon. I have 15 gallons of funky beer that needs bottling so its about finding the time over the next week or so.

Yea I just didnt have the available carboys to do anymore than 1 gallon of the ECY20, it had been ~3 months since I had harvested that culture and really wanted to get it going again so I was able to kill 2 birds with one stone. I usually bottle these 1 gallon beers in those 187ml champagne bottles so I can have a small taste from time to time but yea, I'm sure Im going to want more.
 
Im thinking about doing the same Table Saison in about a month but 15 gallons of it and splitting it 3 ways, ECY20, Bugfarm 5, and ECY03. Im really excited for that one.
 
DO IT. Once I get this one out and bottled I will do another one again in like 6-7 months. My last saison with ECY20 took like 5-6 months to lose the ropiness. This is ECY20 and every bottle sediment dumped from sours I've had in the last two years. So the culture is growing in complexity and genetic variety.
 
Bugfarm 5 gets REAL if you pitch it with your primary yeast/oxygenated wort, if you haven't used it before. Mine took about 8 months to be palatable. But, it's REALLY good now.

Sounds tasty!!

-S
 
Bug farm 5 and Bug County have been primary pitches for me and I have never preceded them with a different primary yeast. In fact all ECY strains I've used that are souring strains were direct pitches into wort. So I get you, and I love the ECY stuff.
 
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