Huge Carbonation!!!!

I have been fighting against bacteria and losing. When I go to bottle I use 3/4 cup corn sugar in 1 pint of water. After a few weeks my "smelly brew" (a bad perfume) gushes out of a room temperature bottle, when opened. Just want to be sure: I believe it is an infection or is it too much sugar?

I don't know what bacterial infection would cause that, but you definitely used the right amount of sugar. What smell was coming out of your brew during fermentation (both primary and secondary). And, most importantly, did you taste the brew during different stages to see what the fermentation was yielding and to see if it has been infected, etc? If it still tasted like extract and not beer after "fermentation" your beer wasn't fermented enough and the yeast had more than just corn sugar to eat during conditioning...

There could be a number of factors that could cause this. First that come to mind is how many gallons is your batch. 3/4 cup is just about right for a 5 gal batch. Second would be if your beer was fully fermented out. What was your OG and FG?

My most recent attempt feremented for 1 week in the primary and 1.5 in the secondary. No activity was noted when I bottled. All my attempts using various kits have yielded a smelly result. One "taster" thought it was lacto. Besides me the only common denominator was the yeast which was Nottingham. I am at my wits end. I have tried leaving one brew only in the primary to limit exposure, but same result.

What are you using to ferment in? What type of sanitizer are you using?

I have used bleach and that oxygen powder - I can't think of that name right off but it is real popular in this forum. As far as fermenters I use a bucket and a glass carboy.

In order to solve your problem we need a step by step of your brew day.

Or let us try this: Plastic bucket, it screams at me. It is saying i am f'ing up the beer it is me,ha ha ha. Get rid of the plastic bucket and replace w/ a 6.5 gallon glass carboy.
How are you chilling your wort? How long does it take to chill it? This could be a possible source of infection as well.
Bottling: are your bottles cleaned and sanitized? Have you tasted your brew during transfer from the primary to the secondary? how about at later stages?
Are you boiling your dme and water for priming long enough?

Let me think more and i will pose some more questions for you. We will get this figured out and get you brewing some great stuff. Dont give up!!

I don't think there is anyting wrong with using plastic, as long as there are no nicks or scratches on the inside where the nasties can hide.

A gushing bottle can be a sign of infection, but not necessarily. Perhaps you bottled too soon. Is there a telltale ring on the neck of the bottle? That's a good sign of infection.

"That oxygen powder"- I assume you mean OxyClean? Oxyclean is an excellent cleaning agent, but it is NOT a sanitizer. Use your OxyClean to clean, then your sanitizer to sanitize. If your sanitizer is bleach, you must rinse rinse rinse. That means that the last thing to touch your bottles (other than your beer) is your rinse water. Do you have well water? Have it tested-It's probably not the source of your infection, but at least you'll have eliminated one possiblilty.

As AHammer said, don't give up, you'll figure it out.

O.K. - I'll give you step by step - and use the last brew process

The American Pale Ale kit came from a very good brew supply house in the area. It called for making a tea out of some grains. I kept the temp at 150 for 30 minutes. Took the "tea bag" out and brought to boil. I then added the hop bag and the malt extract. This was boiled for 1 hour. As it got closer to the one hour I cleaned the primary fermenter (bucket, no scratches) with One Step and rinsed it clean. This fermenter sat uncovered (sanitized) until I put in the cooled wort. After the hour of boiling I placed the metal pot into an ice bath in the sink. In about 20 minutes I can get the temp to 100. In that time I poured 3 gallons of bottled spring water (chilled) into the fermenter. I then pour the wort into the bucket which gets the temp to about 70-75. I then pour in the nottingham yeast stir like mad, put the lid on with the airlock. I usually get some bubbles anywhere from 18-30 hours and then it bubbles like mad. After a week I transferred into a glass carboy. Once again One Step was used. The only time I did not smell this odor that I am plagued with was when I brewed a Brown Ale - different yeast - and when I transferred my very first attempt at brewing from primary to secondary. When it came from the primary it smelled like beer, not this smell I am getting. This last attempt the odor was apparent before I transferred it to the secondary. As for the bottles - no rings Any help would be great

revdoggy said:

This fermenter sat uncovered (sanitized) until I put in the cooled wort.

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sanitize everything: bucket, lid (if it has a spigot disasemble it sanitize and assemble before sanitithing the bucket). And keep it covered all the time

revdoggy said:

In that time I poured 3 gallons of bottled spring water (chilled) into the fermenter. I then pour the wort into the bucket which gets the temp to about 70-75. I then pour in the nottingham yeast stir like mad,

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Do you use a sanitized spoon for stirring?

revdoggy said:

After a week I transferred into a glass carboy.

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how do you transfer? sanitized syphon? how do you start the syphon in that case?

revdoggy said:

The only time I did not smell this odor that I am plagued with was when I brewed a Brown Ale - different yeast -

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Dry yeasts have been known to sometimes carry wild yeast or other nasties. It's not common, but it does happen.

The only other thing I can think of is if the spoon you stirred it with right before pitching was sanitized.

All equipment was sanitized with One Step. I started the siphon (after sanitization) with tap water. The only other thing I can think of is that leaving the empty sanitized bucket open for a period of time caused the infection or my clean thumbs on the siphon??

All equipment was sanitized with One Step.

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As ablrbrau said earlier, One step is a cleaner, NOT a sanitizer.

I made the same mistake a few months ago and it ruined a batch of amber ale. Sounded quite similar to your situation, except there were definitely rings on the necks of the bottles. 5 bottles blew up in my closet. My LHBS owner said it seemed like lactobacillus. He said this bacteria can process sugar more effectively into CO2 than yeast can, hence the excessive foaming. The rest of the batch that hadn’t exploded in the bottles went up like geysers when I dumped them.

-magno

magno said:

As ablrbrau said earlier, One step is a cleaner, NOT a sanitizer.

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True, but ONLY because it has not beed tested/approved by the EPA. You need the stamp of the EPA to be labeled a sanitizer (and this costs a lot of money to get done), so that's why they call it a cleaner instead.

I believe lots of people use it for sanitizing just fine. It sounds like you had a problem with that batch, but I don't know if I would necessarily point the finger at One-Step.

FYI: I think we all agree that bleach will sanitize things, but it cannot claim to be a sanitizer for the same reasons as One-Step: no EPA registration #.

-walker

My guess is that your bucket is the source. although there is nothing wrong with plastic, once you get an infection its hard to get rid of. I doubt you infected your beer at bottling time, but when you said you siphoned using your 'clean fingers' this raised a red flag for me. the human body is a walking incubator covered with literally billions of microbes. I dont EVER have the beer touch actuall skin. i wear sterilized surgical gloves (real ones i get from the hospital) when ever handling anything that goes near the beer. Another thing you mentioned was how you 'stirred like crazy', this is another problem with buckets, they have a huge opening where microbes can easily fall into, either from your hair, or your nose, or breathing. I wear a surgeons mask while im pitching yeast.

i had an infection problem i couldnt trace, and the minute i threw away my plastic bucket and used a glass carboy for primary it went away. (and never came back btw)

Plastic can carry infections.. especially if it has been scratched or scuffed. Get a glass primary for good measure. As others have said, make sure everything that comes into contact with the cooled wort has been sanitized (spoons, thermometers, EVERYTHING!) and re-sanitize it again if you put it down on the counter top or touch it with your hands - even if only for a second. Wash your hands good and do it again if you touch the dog, a door knob, or the fridge handle...

I probably won't be very popular for saying this but I think the single most likely source of your original infection is your water (though the bucket may be carrying it now). First of all one-step is a no rinse cleaner - mix it up correctly and don't rinse it. One-step may sanitize but it probably is not a very good sanitizer - this much I was told by my LHBS guys who are generally very knowledgeable though I would not take it as gospel. Anyhow, just get some star san and be done with it.. there's no excuse not to get a better sanitizer that's no rinse if you're having infection problems. By rinsing after sanitizing you are exposing your beer to whatever microbes are present in the water and in your plumbing system... some do this without problems but if your having an infection problem this is definitely one of the first issues you should address (right up there with the plastic bucket). Any top up water MUST BE BOILED - the only time I ever had an infection and I've been doing this for a while now was the single time I did not boil the top up water for my gf's wine. When I say sanitize everything I mean everything.. including the water. If you absolutely must use bleach (though I can't understand why anybody bothers with it) then rinse it with boiled water. Get an autosiphon or use the carboy caps & a pressure differential to siphon - don't use your mouth, hand, or unboiled tap water to start the siphon.

I know I sound paranoid but hey, at least I'm not wearing latex gloves and a surgeon's mask

Bottome line: star san and a glass carboy and you should be good to go.

I was reading the Palmer book just last night and he described a 'gusher bug' that sounds like it may be what you have. He states that this is a wild yeast or bacteria infection that can happen at any time during the brewing process. If it hits in the fermentor it will be ferment like mad and seamingly never stop. If it happens at racking or bottling then the bottles will be super carbinated and gush when opened. Appearently this infection will eat any sugars that are usually unformantable by the yeast and leave you with 'fizzy, bitter alcoholic water'. An example of this bacteria is called 'pediococcus'.

I got a gusher infection in one of my saved yeast samples in the fridge. I keep them in sanitized 0.5L soda bottles, and when I was moving some thigns around I noticed that my irish ale yeast's bottle was as hard as a rock.

I twisted the cap a teeeeeeeny bit, and it started a geyser of horrible putrid, rancid, ass-like smelling fluid. I gagged pretty hard.

I will never forget that smell....

-walker

My money is on bottling too soon. What temp was your fermenter at during the feermenetation process? If the temp was in the 60's or lower, your yeast may not have been done. Nottingham (from what I understand) will ferment pretty much everything it can. If you bottled too soon, and the yeast wasn't finished, it would cause gushers or even bottle bombs. And the times when I have gusher batches, they don't taste too good.

I guess it could be an infection. It wouldn't hurt to fill your fermenter with bleach/water solution and let it set for a few days then rinse it out with hot water and store it upside down, or with the lid on it. Then before using it again, wash it with starsan and DON'T rinse it. Use the same cleaning techniques on the other parts of your equipment. Also, make sure that when you add stuff like spring water, you must boil it first to kill the nasties.

Good luck. Don't get discouraged. Your best batch lies just ahead.

Thank you all for your advice. Star San and a more cautious approach seems to be the answer.

Imperial Walker said:

FYI: I think we all agree that bleach will sanitize things, but it cannot claim to be a sanitizer for the same reasons as One-Step: no EPA registration #.

-walker

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Im not sure I agree with that one. I worked in foodservice for several years (In restaurants and also in grocery stores as a meatcutter) and every health inspector I ever ran into was perfectly satisfied with bleach as a sanitizer.