1 to 2 gallon automated system a waste?

I've currently got the setup to do 10 gallon full boil batches. I use a cooler mash tun, a keggle, and a propane burner. It's simple and it works.

I was thinking about building an automated 1~2 gallon batch system. This could be boiled on my stove, or be heated with relatively light duty heating elements that wouldn't require new wiring. I could use cheapo 4 gallon pots from wallyworld and a 5 gallon drink cooler for MLT, or biab. I would automate this system as much as I could afford in order to save time and stress.

I'm thinking that maybe I could use this small system to "crank out" test batches and work on recipes. Then use my current "manual" system on occasion to make 5~10 gallon batches that I want more of or would like to share.

Am I wasting time and money with this? Should I just work on automating my 10 gallon system? How short do you think one could make an all grain brew day for 1~2 gallon batches (automation, biab or herms/rims)? I'm new to brewing and I usually hear about people wanting to scale up as the progress, not down.

I have a semi automated biab setup for brewing 1 gallon batches. I find it quite useful for testing out new ideas. It's nice when you want to do a side by side comparison for some sort of experimenting. There are things I have tried out that I would have never done if I had to experiment with 5 gallon batches.

I'm in the middle of apartment brewing rebuild 4.0, and I've downsized each time. My lifestyle doesn't suit to 10 gallon or even 5 gallon batches. I'm a half batch brewer, and my 5.0 build will be automated. It's a hobby, so it's supposed to be fun! If you like the idea of having an automated system, regardless of the size, go for it!

I think it's a waste of $$ to automate. I do ~2 gallon batches, BIAB, get everything to mash temp and place it in the oven that was preheated to 170, shut it off and insert my 4 gallon kettle to sit for an hour. It holds temp fantastic. No need at all for automation. Brewed two batches in a weekend, Will be bottling one tonight. I never done BIAB and wanted to try it. Never really bottled, so I hope I like that aspect. Roughly 20 bottles per batch. Already had a 4 gallon kettle, didn't want another mash tun or more equipment. I made my BIAB bag and bought a mini siphon. So a real small investment.

I enjoy it a lot, I hate brewing outside or in the garage in the winter. Mainly due to chilling hoses freezing, and being a PITA sometimes. So this is my winter brewing go to at this point. Experimenting is a plus, having some bottle volume/variety will also be great.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/1-gallon-brewers-unite-311884/

you could do a pretty automated biab system for like 100$ I integrated one into my main brewing system for smaller 1-2 gallon test batches just like you are saying. All electric is way nice too. Im using it to try to clone a beer, that way i can make 1-2 gallons drink and brew again really fast and not end up with like 5 gallons of stuff I dont want. So far it has been very worth it. I had 2 5 gallon batchs turn out not to my standards back to back and it pushed me to make it.

Both good points. Leaning toward poptarts pov for two reasons: 1) I now seem to be addicted to DIYing all this home brew gear, 2) I've decided to start working toward a RIMS system anyway. I feel at that point making a little 4 gallon dedicated eBIAB pot would be relatively painless.

Thanks all for your input.

BTW poptart, if it wasn't RIMS it was definitely going to be your $50 HERMS.

30Bones said:

I think it's a waste of $$ to automate. I do ~2 gallon batches, BIAB, get everything to mash temp and place it in the oven that was preheated to 170, shut it off and insert my 4 gallon kettle to sit for an hour. It holds temp fantastic. No need at all for automation....

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I'm sorry but I can't resist the irony here... Isn't using a temperature controlled oven to set mash temps considered automation???

BrokenHorn said:

I'm sorry but I can't resist the irony here... Isn't using a temperature controlled oven to set mash temps considered automation???

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How is turning an oven on, warming it up, shutting it off and inserting a kettle automated? It's no more complicated than a cooler mash tun IMO.

I love DIY projects, I don't do a lot of things earth shattering, but I get the draw. Build it up and enjoy. That's what makes this hobby so fun is the options to skin the cat.

thekraken said:

Both good points. Leaning toward poptarts pov for two reasons: 1) I now seem to be addicted to DIYing all this home brew gear, 2) I've decided to start working toward a RIMS system anyway. I feel at that point making a little 4 gallon dedicated eBIAB pot would be relatively painless.

Thanks all for your input.

BTW poptart, if it wasn't RIMS it was definitely going to be your $50 HERMS.

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Yea, its pretty sweet setup , My HLT is a 7 gallon pot, So I tossed a 1500w element in there and a false bottom made from a pizza pan. Then I controll the element with my 50$ HERMS stc, and recirc with my pump biab style. Flawless temp control for the mash and boil. Then I use a counterflow chiller for both systems so that works well.

If you have fun doing it, then its not a waste of time.
Brew, drink and be happy, cheers!

I just thought about building something like this the other day, and the idea has been stuck in my mind. I've been procrastinating automating my big system because I don't like drinking 10 gallons of beer at a time, especially when you have a less than optimal batch. I'd much rather drink a gallon of one recipe and then move on to a different flavor. Also I want to be able to crank out test batches with slight tweaks to the recipe and taste them all side by side.

I'm actually thinking about automating a system more in the 1/2 - 1 gallon size, so a growler or 2 per brew.

(Duplicate post)

Doing something like a 1 gallon eBiab seems like the best route for you, and I dont think it would be a waste. You could use a small pump to recirculate (one of those low volt DC pumps) and maybe a hot plate as the heat source. You could use a PID as a controller, or just use an off the shelf temp controller like a Johnson or STC. If your hotplate isnt warm enough to boil, you could move over to the stove.

Dont tell my wife, but Im planning on sneaking a similar build in as part of my brewery remodel. Im already $800 over budget, what is another $100?

Here is a picture of my setup. It is basically a double boiler. All of the components I already had lying around except for the hot plate which I picked up for $20 and a small wire rack that is used to set the inner pot on inside the larger pot.
It works good but temperature rises are slow. The pump circulates the water in the double boiler which helps create more even temps in the mash.

The hot plate I got had a thermal overload protection so I couldn't get to a boil with it. Since then I took it apart and removed the thermal protection so I should be able to use it to boil as well.

I went with the double boiler aproach cause I also make cheese and in that application you want the extra thermal mass in between the heat source and the milk to prevent uneven heating. Some of the hard cheese recipes require the milk to be on a heat source for the better part of a day with slow temperature ramps between rests. This setup will make it so much easier than sitting at the stove all day long adjusting the burner.

I started working on a cascaded feedback loop controller for it with the arduino. I will have a normal PI loop control the hot plate based off of the temp sensor in the outer pot. The temp inside the mash will drive the second loop which will adjust the setpoint of the first loop, keeping it within a range from the mash setpoint.

View attachment 1417972291993.jpg

crane said:

Here is a picture of my setup. It is basically a double boiler. All of the components I already had lying around except for the hot plate which I picked up for $20 and a small wire rack that is used to set the inner pot on inside the larger pot.
It works good but temperature rises are slow. The pump circulates the water in the double boiler which helps create more even temps in the mash.

The hot plate I got had a thermal overload protection so I couldn't get to a boil with it. Since then I took it apart and removed the thermal protection so I should be able to use it to boil as well.

I went with the double boiler aproach cause I also make cheese and in that application you want the extra thermal mass in between the heat source and the milk to prevent uneven heating. Some of the hard cheese recipes require the milk to be on a heat source for the better part of a day with slow temperature ramps between rests. This setup will make it so much easier than sitting at the stove all day long adjusting the burner.

I started working on a cascaded feedback loop controller for it with the arduino. I will have a normal PI loop control the hot plate based off of the temp sensor in the outer pot. The temp inside the mash will drive the second loop which will adjust the setpoint of the first loop, keeping it within a range from the mash setpoint.

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Cool! I'm definitely going to need more pictures of your setup. Have a build thread?

thekraken said:

Cool! I'm definitely going to need more pictures of your setup. Have a build thread?

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I don't have a build thread. I don't have any more pictures now. I'll try to take some more and post them up here.

I have gone down every route, Keggles, BIAB, Love controllers, Herms Systems, 2 tier and 20 gallon Full Auto now. If I were going to do it again, Id build a simple Auto BIAB. just my 2 cents.

crane said:

Here is a picture of my setup. It is basically a double boiler. All of the components I already had lying around except for the hot plate which I picked up for $20 and a small wire rack that is used to set the inner pot on inside the larger pot.
It works good but temperature rises are slow. The pump circulates the water in the double boiler which helps create more even temps in the mash.

The hot plate I got had a thermal overload protection so I couldn't get to a boil with it. Since then I took it apart and removed the thermal protection so I should be able to use it to boil as well.

I went with the double boiler aproach cause I also make cheese and in that application you want the extra thermal mass in between the heat source and the milk to prevent uneven heating. Some of the hard cheese recipes require the milk to be on a heat source for the better part of a day with slow temperature ramps between rests. This setup will make it so much easier than sitting at the stove all day long adjusting the burner.

I started working on a cascaded feedback loop controller for it with the arduino. I will have a normal PI loop control the hot plate based off of the temp sensor in the outer pot. The temp inside the mash will drive the second loop which will adjust the setpoint of the first loop, keeping it within a range from the mash setpoint.

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Thats pretty cool, I question the sanitary fitting going into a questionably food grade plastic pump but yea electric recirc biab systems are the way to go for precision small batch.

poptarts said:

Thats pretty cool, I question the sanitary fitting going into a questionably food grade plastic pump but yea electric recirc biab systems are the way to go for precision small batch.

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This pump is from my keggle mash tun. I use the tri clamp as an easy way to mount the pump directly to the mash tun. I went with a tri clamp there as it is sturdier than the cam lock disconnects. In this application no wort or brewing water goes through the pump. I'm only recirculating the water in the double boiler.

I'm working on a fully automated 2.5 gal system now. I think that size makes sense for a lot of people. 10 gallons is efficient but it you want to brew often and have variety it can be too much. 10 gallons is just way too much for me. I brewed on a 10 gal system for a long time, i ended up dumping a lot of beer because i'd keep running out of keg space. It would take me months to go through a 10 gallon batch nowadays. I'd rather brew more often and have variety.

I'm doing an a two vessel direct fired recirc system. Fly sparge, plate chiller, whirlpool, etc. Here's the beginnings...

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1426907495.998600.jpg

That's pretty

What pump is that?

Jkoravos, thats a lot of electric valves. Nifty. Looking forward to seeing the build.

I do 2-3 gallon patches exclusively and i've used RIMS, induction, jot played, HERMS, and stove top. For small batch, do automation for the fun of it, but I've actually made my best beer on the gas stove, using a biab bag but not full volume mashing, I mash at 1.5-1.7 and dunk sparge in second pot. Maintaining temps on 2 gallons of mash water is super easy on the stove. I keep my scientific thermometer in the pot, stir every once in a while with a wisk, and put the stove on lowest setting when the temp starts to dip. Easy peasy. That being said, I do prefer single tier Brutus 20 brewing, which is what is going in my brew room build (which is going super slow).

These would be nice for a small batch, countertop brew sculpture in 16 quart pots:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/stainless-teapot-heating-elements-481356/

Weezy said:

Jkoravos, thats a lot of electric valves. Nifty. Looking forward to seeing the build.

I do 2-3 gallon patches exclusively and i've used RIMS, induction, jot played, HERMS, and stove top. For small batch, do automation for the fun of it, but I've actually made my best beer on the gas stove, using a biab bag but not full volume mashing, I mash at 1.5-1.7 and dunk sparge in second pot. Maintaining temps on 2 gallons of mash water is super easy on the stove. I keep my scientific thermometer in the pot, stir every once in a while with a wisk, and put the stove on lowest setting when the temp starts to dip. Easy peasy. That being said, I do prefer single tier Brutus 20 brewing, which is what is going in my brew room build (which is going super slow).

These would be nice for a small batch, countertop brew sculpture in 16 quart pots:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/stainless-teapot-heating-elements-481356/

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I saw your post about the system with bain marie pots. Using 12 qt bain maries was my original plan but i decided to go with a 2.5 gallon finished batch size and they wouldn't be big enough. I bought a 16 qt (BK/HLT) and 20 qt (MLT) Update International stainless pots for my system. It's a two vessel system with the BK doubling as the HLT.

I'm going with 120V electric range elements to heat the pots. So the heating elements won't actually be inside the pots. The main reason for doing that was to keep the brew kettle as free obstructions as possible so I can get a really good whirlpool going. I also like that I can just disconnect the quick disconnects and it's still a standalone kettle without electrical connections hanging off of it.

Cool, cool.

kickflip_mj said:

What pump is that?

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It's an Aro-Mag branded mag drive pump. I forget where I got it.