garden hose cause infection ??

the last 3 batches I brewed outside for the first time. And the last 3 batches that where sitting for 3 months, got infected !! The ONLY difference between any procedures outside, and inside where using the garden hose !

what do you guys think could have caused the infection ? Could it be the outside wind blowing little contaminants into my primary ? or that the garden hose itsself is quite dirty, and hense the water I used had micro bacteria in it and whatnot ??

I have done maybee 10 batches, these past 3 where the only ones I have EVER had trouble with

I think I'm back to brewing inside when noone else is home !

The only way your garden hose could've introduced an infection is if you used it to add water to the cooled wort in the primary. I brew exclusively in the back yard and use the water hose, but NEVER after chilling the wort. Did you use it to top off your primary?

First you really shouldn't use a garden hose for potable water. Garden hoses are not made of food-grade material(s) and can leach chemicals into the water. If you need to use a hose, buy an RV water hose (typically white).

Second, if you're topping up with water, you should boil/cool it first to kill any microbes that could cause contamination. Some use it right from the faucet and get away with it, but I wouldn't. Water from your faucet still contains microbes and it's not worth the risk of losing a whole batch of beer.

no I did not top it off. I filled the primary directly with water from the hose, then poured my boiling wert right into the primary. I put the cap on, and shook the crap out of it for a good minute. Took the cap off, pictched the yeast and the put the cap back on. I filled my airlock with vodka and stuck it in there....DONE.

Everything had been thoroughly scrubbed & soaked with B-brite for a good 5 minutes, then rinsed. This is the same procedure that I use inside. But I had never had an infection prior to brewing outside...

Garden hoses are rather well known for harboring bacteria as well as not being food safe. If you are using water straight from a regular garden hose I would say it's a good chance that the hose is the reason your beer is not what it should be.

illnastyimpreza said:

no I did not top it off. I filled the primary directly with water from the hose, then poured my boiling wert right into the primary.

Click to expand...

Isn't that essentially the same thing as topping it off, only "bottoming it off"... or am I missing something?

menschmaschine said:

Isn't that essentially the same thing as topping it off, only "bottoming it off"... or am I missing something?

Click to expand...

then how the hell am I supposed to do it ??

illnastyimpreza said:

then how the hell am I supposed to do it ??

Click to expand...

Boil water first to sanitize, then cool to the same temp as the wort. Use this cooled water to achieve your desired batch size.

daktruckie99 said:

Boil water first to sanitize, then cool to the same temp as the wort. Use this cooled water to achieve your desired batch size.

Click to expand...

even when doing extract kits ??

Problem 1

illnastyimpreza said:

I filled the primary directly with water from the hose

Click to expand...

Introduction of unwanted microbes and lead from garden hose. Use boiled and cooled water (preferred) or bottles water (many people do this).

Problem 2

illnastyimpreza said:

then poured my boiling wert right into the primary

Click to expand...

You run the risk of thermal shock here if you use this method on a glass carboy which may cause it to crack or break spectacularly. If using plastic, you run the risk of melting or weakening. In any case the mixture of room temp water and boiling wort will still leave you on the higher end of desireable pitching temps. Read: Weak yeast = off flavor.

Problem 3

illnastyimpreza said:

Everything had been thoroughly scrubbed & soaked with B-brite for a good 5 minutes

Click to expand...

B-Brite is a cleaner and not a sanitizer. You may not have killed potential bacteria. Use B-Brite for cleaning and a good no-rinse sanitizer for sanitization like Star-san (preferred) or Iodophor.

Problem 4

illnastyimpreza said:

then rinsed.

Click to expand...

Potential re-introduction of bacteria. See above.

illnastyimpreza said:

even when doing extract kits ??

Click to expand...

Yes. The only way to skip this would be to do full boils and not need any top off water.

^ wow really ?? so even my regular tap water can contain enough micro organisms to infect a batch ?? I guess it matters where I get my tap water huh ?

I will have to find some star-san. do I just add it to the water I'm sanitizing with, swash it around for like 5 minutes, then pour it out ? I should NOT rinse it out with tap water correct ? I will take a trip to a different LHBSS today, I just got some 1 step cleaner, but it doesn't look like its a sanitizer.

Also, I have the ability to boil 5 gallons, but it takes FOREVER. can I just sanatize the primary bucket, and then pour in like 4.5 gallons of bottled SPRING water, then pour my wort right ontop? what would be the best way to do it ?

menschmaschine said:

Isn't that essentially the same thing as topping it off, only "bottoming it off"... or am I missing something?

Click to expand...

You can call it want you want, but the bottom line is that the OP is adding water from the garden hose. This seems to be the common denominator in the equation. Stop using the garden hose and I bet that you will be back to normal.

Good Luck!

You have 3 viable options IMO:

1. buy Spring water to add to the primary (what I do for partial boils)

2. boil and then store water in a sanitized containers for adding to primary

3.do a full boil (this will also benefit the flavor of your beer - search the site for info about this)

At the very least I would not use water from the garden hose - use the indoor tap and cart it outside.

illnastyimpreza said:

^ wow really ?? so even my regular tap water can contain enough micro organisms to infect a batch ?? I guess it matters where I get my tap water huh ?

Click to expand...

It absolutely does!

illnastyimpreza said:

I will have to find some star-san. do I just add it to the water I'm sanitizing with, swash it around for like 5 minutes, then pour it out ? I should NOT rinse it out with tap water correct ?

Click to expand...

Yes. Star-San is a NO-RINSE sanitizer. As soon as you pour your wort into it the PH of the wort will neutralize the sanitizer.

illnastyimpreza said:

Also, I have the ability to boil 5 gallons, but it takes FOREVER. can I just sanatize the primary bucket, and then pour in like 4.5 gallons of bottled SPRING water, then pour my wort right ontop? what would be the best way to do it ?

Click to expand...

Does the boiling take forever or the cooling? I much prefer to do full 5 gallon (actually 6 gallon to make up for evaporation) boils whenever possible. I bought a cheap turkey fryer propane kit (like $75) to accomplish this quicker than stove-top. Then my issue was cooling quickly (snow bank took like an hour), so I went and got parts at the hardware store (about $20) and made my own immersion chiller. For me, this represented the cheapest, and easiest way to get into full boils early on.

You mentioned pouring 4.5 gallons into the bucket? How much are you boiling? In any and all cases for extract brewing, you should boil as MUCH water as you comfortably can. For a 5 gallon batch, I'd recommend at least 3 gallons of water if at all possible. W/ the inclusion of the ME, it will be higher than the 3 gallon mark, so you usually need at least a 4 gallon boil pot. Then yes, use spring water to top off to the 5 gallon mark, or pre boil the extra water for 15 mins to kill all bacteria and if you have chlorine, it will boil that away too. Sounds like you've got some great advice though, for your next batch. Good luck!

Here is how I do it.

I've used bottled water to top off for years. A local warehouse club usually has a local brand for about $7 for six gallons. To me it's worth it for the time and flexibility, and my local tap water can have issues. If you are cheap, you can pre-boil your tap water and put it into clean water jugs beforehand.

First, put your pot of hot wort in a sink/bucket/bathtub full of ice water to cool it down. you don't need to get it all the way down to yeast pitching temps, just down below 110 or so.

Add a gallon or two of room temperature topping off water to the sanitized fermenter and add the warm (but not boiling) wort. Put the (sanitized) top on and shake to mix. Give it a minuet of two and check the temperature.

I usually keep one of two jugs in the refrigerator, and one or two at room temp. If your temp is still high, add some of the cold, if it is too low, add all of the room temp and so on. If you really overshoot, keep the lid on the fermenter and heat up some of the water and add it.

You should be able to hit the target temp pretty close this way, all of your water is clean, and you aren't leaching chemicals from the hose.

how long do you guys boil your wert ?

Depends. If I'm doing a pre-hopped kit (yes, I still do occasionally when I'm experimenting or want to do a quick brew) I'll only boil for 15-30 minutes.

For my own extract recipes usually 60 minutes.

If I want to get something darker or raise my OG, maybe 90 minutes. That's the longest I've done, but I've heard of others going longer.

so 15-30 minutes continuously, once it STARTS boiling ??

15 minutes at a rolling boil ensures all the baddies are dead,so yes a minimum of 15 minutes after it hits a nice boil.

oh wow, I would say I only bring it to a boil, then add the can of goop, then sugar or DME, and then I almost immediately add it to my primary. I will have to boil longer !

illnastyimpreza, I have to ask because I have been following this thread, but where did you pick up this procedure? Have you read Palmers online excerpt of his book "How to Brew" ???

I have no malice or ill intent, just suggesting you at least read this: How to Brew - By John Palmer - Brewing Your First Beer With Malt Extract

actually I have come a long way since MR Beer , I joined this forum, and kind of went to town with brewing. I have brewed 3 batches just this week But I couldn't do it without you guys. I learn more and more every day ! Soon, I will be brewing Smash all grain in my bag

I would review your sanitation techniques. Get some star san or some iodophor. It sounds like you're missing that step.

carnevoodoo said:

I would review your sanitation techniques. Get some star san or some iodophor. It sounds like you're missing that step.

Click to expand...

If I grasp this in full, he is also just boiling the water, adding the malt extract and hops, stirring it in, and then straight to the fermenter.

Ya gotta do an hour long boil man!!

RedIrocZ-28 said:

If I grasp this in full, he is also just boiling the water, adding the malt extract and hops, stirring it in, and then straight to the fermenter.

Ya gotta do an hour long boil man!!

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. If you're using pre-hopped extract it's usually gone through all of the conversions it needs to. You just need to boil it long enough to kill bad stuff.

RedIrocZ-28 said:

illnastyimpreza, I have to ask because I have been following this thread, but where did you pick up this procedure? Have you read Palmers online excerpt of his book "How to Brew" ???

I have no malice or ill intent, just suggesting you at least read this: How to Brew - By John Palmer - Brewing Your First Beer With Malt Extract

Click to expand...

I second this. I read through most of that book before attempting my first and as well as The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing by Charlie Papazian since I found it at Half-Priced Books.

You basically always want to kill any potential "baddies". The best way to do that is to boil all water that isn't included in the wort boiling and by using a sanitizer for all surfaces of _anything_ (including stirring spoon/etc) that will come in contact with the wort after it's been boiled.

You can also use diluted bleach as a sanitizer (read the book at the link above) but you need to rinse it off with "boiled" water.

Some folks are taking in this thread about an hour long boil. Just to try to make it clearer as it was kind of confusing to read, you need to boil your wort for at least 15 minutes just to kill the baddies. The rest of the boil when _not_ using malt extract that is "prehopped" is so that the hops you would be adding can be fully utilized.

kcstrom

illnastyimpreza said:

I have done maybee 10 batches, these past 3 where the only ones I have EVER had trouble with

!

Click to expand...

That is 30% infection rate!!!!! I have brewed maybe 250 batches. If I had had 80 batches go bad I would quit without a second thought.

To nip this in the bud you need to replace the equipment that you can i.e. hoses, canes, and bucket fermenters, and boil what you can, and soak the carboys in a strong bleach solution.

dontman said:

That is 30% infection rate!!!!! I have brewed maybe 250 batches. If I had had 80 batches go bad I would quit without a second thought.

To nip this in the bud you need to replace the equipment that you can i.e. hoses, canes, and bucket fermenters, and boil what you can, and soak the carboys in a strong bleach solution.

Click to expand...

hah I've only had a problem when It was outside with the garden hose though. I JUST brewed my first batch in like 4 months last wedsday, and I put it on tap tonight, it tastes AWESOME ! I forgot how rewarding a good homebrew was ! I have 2 more that I brewed since then that are gonna ferment out at least a few months...or untill I run out of beer thats why you can never have enough primaries !

I had one batch that seemed to have a lacto infection after being bottled for a while. I still don't know how/when that happened. But that's once in several years of brewing, and once in about 250 batches. I'd be concerned with any infection, that's for sure.

I'd recommend trying a kit like Brewer's Best or one from NorthernBrewer.com or Austinhomebrew.com. They have steeping grains, hops, extract, etc, all included, along with good instructions. A kit that is boiled, quality ingredients, and using good brewing techniques, can guarantee good results.

im a noob but how can the OP have so many primaries and a kegerator and done that many batches and still be so misinformed about the process of brewing.

Mossbergmike said:

im a noob but how can the OP have so many primaries and a kegerator and done that many batches and still be so misinformed about the process of brewing.

Click to expand...

because I'm still a newb too I never had a problem until using the garden hose... my friends all brew the same way and have never had problems. I assumed the FULL boils where only used when doing ALL GRAIN. Now I realize its for sanitstion purposes. thats why the internet is awesome. SOOO much info from people who have all done it before...right at your finger tips. thanks guys !

I guess you don't really ask how to fix your car until the tie rod end (that has been clicking for 15k miles) actually breaks

+1 on picking up a copy of Palmer's book "How to Brew".
+1 on the starsan (or idophor)

After getting back into this sport I found a whole list of things I was doing that could have led to problems, like even adding tap water w/o a garden hose *can* be risky.

Brew on

I'm gonna have to invest in a cooler or some kind in order to cool all that boiling water... whata u guys think, imersion or counterflow ?

should I build it myself, or buy one used ??

I'm building my own from 3/8" copper tubing. I can't wait, its going to be better than anyone elses because of my affinity for understanding heat transfer. They are not hard if you are mechanically inclined, plus its cheaper to do it yourself. So I vote for you building one on your own.

illnastyimpreza said:

I'm gonna have to invest in a cooler or some kind in order to cool all that boiling water... whata u guys think, imersion or counterflow ?

should I build it myself, or buy one used ??

Click to expand...

If you buy "The New Complete Joy of Homebrewing" by Papazian to read, he has instructions in an appendix on how to construct an immersion chiller. It's super easy.

kcstrom

Bobby_M produced an awesome vid on Youtube.

I don't have a link, but search for Immersion Chiller on the tube, and you can't miss it. I just built one, 50' from 1/2 inch copper for about $65. That's about 1/2 cost from online.

After you build it, MAKE SURE YOU CLEAN IT. I'm dumping a batch that tastes like machine oil and dirt because I only sprayed it down quick with starsan and gave it a quick towel-off.

Also, in the infection department, I'd suggest replacing hoses every year. It's a couple bucks, and can save you a bunch.

Bang for your buck, the immersion chiller with hardware store parts just can't be beat. I think I did mine for less than $25 and it works pretty darned good. 5 gallons from boiling to pitching temps in 15-20 minutes usually.

I would love to make a chiller our of my old mini fridge that the Tstat went bad. I could just cut all the copper piping out and build a immersion chiller out of that