Speidel Fermenter Mod???

I have one of the 5+ G Speidel Fermenters and would like to add either a thermowell for a "deep probe" or even simply a "grommet" that would allow me to insert my turkey fryer thermometer into the top few inches. I think either will work well.

Any creative ideas? I'm looking at going down through the large plastic cap. I'm not sure if I could drill a 2nd hole in the stopper to make that work. Don't have lab cork borers available any more.

Guess I'm thinking there must be some sort of grommet I can fit to the cap.. or some sort of stainless item that has an o-ring that can be tightened around either the thermowell or even the turkey thermometer?

All thoughts welcome.. thanks guys n gals.

If it's just a turkey fryer thermometer, why not just tape it to the outside or better yet, just get a fermentometer strip and stick that to the outside?

Drilling holes and dropping probes just sounds like you're opening the path for possible infection.

I have an eBay C* thermometer with a probe on a wire.. I have taped that to the outside under a piece of closed cell foam.. that's not bad. I have a strip fermometer stuck to the outside.

Two problems with both of those..
1. If I try to raise the water level around the fermenter.. both the strip thermometer and the ebay thermometer would either be under water or with the ebay unit.. would likely be above the beer level.
2. The plastic, IMO, will insulate the thermometer from the real beer temp.. I'm really getting to the point where I believe the temp inside during active fermentation is hotter than my strip therm shows.

But, thanks for the thought..

I'll post up a pic here in a bit.

I put a 12" 1/2" NPT thermowell using weldless techniques. So I got 2 silicone o-rings and a lock nut with the groove in it, and put one on top and one on the bottom and just tightened it up.


Untitled by HDIr0n, on Flickr


Untitled by HDIr0n, on Flickr

Hope that helps.

-G

Thats about the idea I had in mind.. Where did you get that particular thermowell?

Thanks

http://www.mainlandvalveandfitting.com

They are local for me, and have always hooked me up whenever I need anything.

-G

So, did you already have the thermowell and bring it to the place for the fittings?

What size thermowell is it? 1/4" ID or ??OD

The thermowell is 1/4" ID, I took my temp probe from my STC-1000 and made sure it fit snug in the thermowell and purchased the thermowell from those guys.

-G

I've got a buddy from TX who is a Wallace.. funny if there is a relationship.

So you have a 1/4" ID probe.. What is the rest of it if I want to order? Thanks, Bill

I just pondered some similar options for getting a thermowell into my Speidel 30L fermenter.

The thermowell I use is the 16" from Brewershardware: https://www.brewershardware.com/16-Stainless-Steel-Thermowell.html The end is spun shut and looks very fancy. But how to get it into my Speidel?

Option 1: Drill two 3/8" holes in a (previously undrilled) No. 9 stopper. That stopper will replace the red stopper the Speidel comes with. You can place a standard airlock into one hole (ditch the giant Speidel airlock), and the thermowell into another.

Option 2: Drill a 1/2" hole in the side of the Speidel lid, which is what HDIr0n ended up doing, but instead of gaskets/washers I fit a rubber grommet into the hole that the thermowell fits into.

I ended up going with Option 2 because I can't seem to get my drill to core out the rubber stopper. Supposedly if you get it super cold, you can drill it like wood, but my freezer wasn't up to the task, and I didn't feel like finding dry ice to really freeze it down. When I get home, I'll post a picture of option 2 on my Speidel. It's simple and air tight which is all you can ask.

[Edit] I went to MoreBeer this afternoon (their Concord showroom is 3 miles from my house... score!!) and tested stoppers. That's how I settled on the No. 9 stopper as replacing the Speidel stopper if you want to use a standard airlock. The 8.5 also seems to fit, but I liked the No. 9 better... just FYI if you want to go that route.

Here are the pics (zoomed shot of the grommet and a long view of the whole lid):

Pfgonzo, I was doing some searching and found your thermowell solution. How did it work out? Was the lid able to stay sealed? I was thinking about the contraction of the rubber when cooled. If it did shrink it seems like that wouldn't seal right.

I used one of the brewers hardware thermowells along with a rubber stopper with a hole in it. Then I drilled a hole in the top cap similar to HDIr0n shown above. Works great...

balrog429 said:

Pfgonzo, I was doing some searching and found your thermowell solution. How did it work out? Was the lid able to stay sealed? I was thinking about the contraction of the rubber when cooled. If it did shrink it seems like that wouldn't seal right.

Click to expand...

I had to test fit a number of grommets before I found one that worked with the thermowell and the 1/2" hole I drilled. The one i went with is super, super tight at room temp. As in I tore through several grommets getting the thermowell in, it was so tight. Next time, LUBE!

Anyway, I have no sealing issues at any temp. Works like a charm. I love it and am adding a thermowell to my second spiedel.

Note: some folks here find they get too much of a temp swing when using a thermowell in the fermenter in conjunction with a temp controller. In other words, they find that by the time the center of the liquid hits the set temp and the cooler/heater shuts off, they get carry over where the temp dips even further (assuming cooling was on) than they liked. I had not had this problem, and love my thermowell being in the fermenter.

I've put a few batches through my 30l one and have been attaching the probe to the outside of it. The issue that was concerning me was the thickness of the plastic. It's way thicker than something like a better bottle.

Lol....lube.

pfgonzo said:

I had to test fit a number of grommets before I found one that worked with the thermowell and the 1/2" hole I drilled. The one i went with is super, super tight at room temp. As in I tore through several grommets getting the thermowell in, it was so tight. Next time, LUBE!

Anyway, I have no sealing issues at any temp. Works like a charm. I love it and am adding a thermowell to my second spiedel.

Note: some folks here find they get too much of a temp swing when using a thermowell in the fermenter in conjunction with a temp controller. In other words, they find that by the time the center of the liquid hits the set temp and the cooler/heater shuts off, they get carry over where the temp dips even further (assuming cooling was on) than they liked. I had not had this problem, and love my thermowell being in the fermenter.

Click to expand...

Where do you get the grommets?

Bought a multi pack of different sized vinyl grommets from Radio Shack when I made my STC-1000 box (to make the cord-through-box transition look professional) and the biggest ones were just right for this project.

Had I known about these I would've used this on a new solid stopper and had a port for blowoff and a thermowell.

https://www.google.com/search?q=RUB...08,d.aWM&fp=6ca84d98d48f74bf&biw=1366&bih=653

I hope that helps somebody.

-G

Looks like a sharpened piece of pipe.

So have you guys found a big temp difference reading in your new thermowell vs your old external method?

Don't beat yourself up HDIr0n. I asked my LHBS guys about cork borers before engaging in my project. Consensus seems to be that they don't work that well. I'm sure there are quality ones out there, but the under ~$20 seem to be more trouble than they're worth.

JSmoon888, I have an external aquarium sticker thermometer as well as my internal thermowell on my Speidels. Bear in mind, there will always be a temperature differential between the middle of the vessel and the outter edges. Before I was looking at and controlling things to the outter edges, and now I use the center.

Warnings about carryover temperature drops when measuring from the center (in other words, if you use a temperature controller and measure the center temp, by the time it gets cool, the outter edges of the vessel will get too cold and the temp will continue to drop past where you want it) to be a boogeyman. Not real. I've never seen bigger than a 1-1.5 degree difference between the sticker and the internal temp, with no carryover problems. Besides, I do most ales at 68, and if the center occasionally drops to 67, or even something extreme like 64-65, that's ok with me (though I've never seen it happen).

Now, that said, I'm using a fridge as my fermentation chamber, not a chest freezer which is more powerful, and I'm only doing 5ga batches. Bigger batches, or using a powerful cooler like a chest freezer, and I'm sure the thermal carryover from cooling would be more noticeable. How much, I cannot say.

pfgonzo said:

Option 2: Drill a 1/2" hole in the side of the Speidel lid, which is what HDIr0n ended up doing, but instead of gaskets/washers I fit a rubber grommet into the hole that the thermowell fits into.

Click to expand...

Sorry to resurrect this topic, but what kind of grommet did you end up using? I imagine I could find a store nearby with some and buy a number to try, but it looks like you got a very snug fit and that it's airtight (I imagine it's a true grommet and not a pair of o-rings?)...

Waiting for my Speidel 60L to be delivered and would love to do this to my new fermenter - thanks!

Edit: I presume you had a 3/8" ID grommet based on the thermowell, and the OD is less important, but if you determined the panel thickness for the Speidel's lid, I'd be most grateful... I.e., value (D) in this image

Your image is exactly the type of grommet I used. I just went to Radio Shack and bought a small $2 (if memory serves) bag of misc sizes. I ended up using the largest in the bag, and the fit is nice and snug. In fact, I just Googled it: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103392

That's the pack I bought, but bear in mind, the size I used was perfect for my specific thermowell. https://www.brewershardware.com/16-Stainless-Steel-Thermowell.html

The grommet size, per Radio Shack's description is 1/4" panel hole size, 1/16" panel thickness, 1/4" total grommet depth, 9/16" total grommet width.

If you have a different thermowell, your grommet size will have to adjust accordingly. Both the largest, and the next size down in the Radio Shack pack (and perhaps even one further size down), fit the width of the Speidel lid perfectly (Value D from your image).

As another option, someone in another thread claimed that the threads on a carboy cap fit the speidel top perfectly, and you can get carboy caps with built in thermowells. No drilling required, no grommets.

If I can find that thread, I'll edit my post to include the link.

[edit, here it is: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/30l-speidel-fermenter-417864/ See posts by fpweeks on page 2 (for me), posts 12, 14 and 17.]

Thanks so much! I ordered the grommet and thermowell, and while I'm a little worried about it being airtight (easier to do a pressurized transfer to a keg without lifting the thing out of my freezer), but figure I can save my back by spending $5 on a replacement lid (sans-thermowell) for racking time.

Awesome and clean solution.

Where do you get the lids?

I ordered a replacement spigot as part of my original Speidel order (link)...

You can also get a locking cap that seals the port completely.

For those of you who have purchased the 60L Speidel, which uses a different spigot lid than the 30L in pfgonzo's method, you can still drill the thermowell port into the spigot lid without drilling it into the lid of the Speidel itself (potentially an expensive mistake), with a little creativity:



Sorry, I neglected to take pictures while I was doing this, and it's really hard to explain without those images... but:

I used a rubber mallet to remove the spout (orange) and disassemble the spigot assembly. I then drilled a hole 3/8" hole in the white plastic, and enlarged it until I could fit the grommet (size-matched with the thermowell before drilling) into the hole. Measure three times, drill once - it's a very precise fit, and if you drill too close to the port itself you could compromise the spigot.

I had to shave a little of the plastic on the upper-inside portion of the spout-holder (you can see a little shaved off in the image), so that I could push the thermowell into the grommet. Once it was secure in place, I put the spout back in and made sure it was secure.

Doesn't appear to have compromised the spigot's function at all, and now I have a thermowell I can use (and swap out for another spigot when I need to pressure-transfer the beer). The temperature probe (STC-1000) can be easily fitted behind the faucet, and it should work perfectly for my brew this weekend ::

I use one of these http://morebeer.com/products/hood-thermowell-65-gallon-threaded-neck-carboys-15.html - it fits tightly so no air leak worries.


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On another mod tangent - what brand and size tubing are you all using for the Spiedel spigot? I can get 3/8" ID on but it doesn't stay on well and I end up holding it the entire time I'm draining to the keg.


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I found the easiest way to get a thermowell into a bucket or something like this that has a large hole is to just drill a 1/2" hole, and buy an appropriately sized drilled rubber stopper and shove the thermowell down the hole...I know the thermowells at brewershardware fit snuggly inside of a standard drilled stopper and dont leak CO2.

I have two i use for my big 8 Gallon buckets. I tried the whole drilling the hole the same size of the thermowell it just doesnt work. The biggest issue is the leverage that gets put on the connection when you take it out ...once that extra weight dangling below gets leverage it just breaks any kind of seal you have usually. Weldless setup would probably fix this but its also probably quite a bit more expensive than a 25-50 cent rubber stopper that you can easily take apart and clean.

Carlscan26 said:

On another mod tangent - what brand and size tubing are you all using for the Spiedel spigot? I can get 3/8" ID on but it doesn't stay on well and I end up holding it the entire time I'm draining to the keg.


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Click to expand...

I push a 1/2" silicone hose all the way up on the spigot. No part way, but all the way. Stays on for me


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3/8" silicon works well for me, at least so far... Rigged up one spigot with a permanent tube to a co2 line for pressure transfers, and have a line ready for transferring to a keg when the batch is done.

Thanks! I'll try the 3/8" first because on the other end I have a beer side ball lock connector for transferring into the keg via the dip tube. The 3/8" vinyl I have now is a snug fit on the MFL threads - I had issues with the 3/8" fitting on a barb tightly enough then noticed the hose slid over the threads and that is working really well so far.


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You can also get 5/16" and even 3/8" barb-FFL/MFL fittings. I grabbed a few from MoreBeer and a few online sources, and use them in my system a lot. Makes for a leak-free system

jwbeard said:

For those of you who have purchased the 60L Speidel, which uses a different spigot lid than the 30L in pfgonzo's method, you can still drill the thermowell port into the spigot lid without drilling it into the lid of the Speidel itself (potentially an expensive mistake), with a little creativity:

Sorry, I neglected to take pictures while I was doing this, and it's really hard to explain without those images... but:

I used a rubber mallet to remove the spout (orange) and disassemble the spigot assembly. I then drilled a hole 3/8" hole in the white plastic, and enlarged it until I could fit the grommet (size-matched with the thermowell before drilling) into the hole. Measure three times, drill once - it's a very precise fit, and if you drill too close to the port itself you could compromise the spigot.

I had to shave a little of the plastic on the upper-inside portion of the spout-holder (you can see a little shaved off in the image), so that I could push the thermowell into the grommet. Once it was secure in place, I put the spout back in and made sure it was secure.

Doesn't appear to have compromised the spigot's function at all, and now I have a thermowell I can use (and swap out for another spigot when I need to pressure-transfer the beer). The temperature probe (STC-1000) can be easily fitted behind the faucet, and it should work perfectly for my brew this weekend ::

Click to expand...

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I was thinking of doing exactly what you are doing on a Speidel 30L fermenter. I was curious if you had any issues with your thermowell connection.

Eamon said:

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I was thinking of doing exactly what you are doing on a Speidel 30L fermenter. I was curious if you had any issues with your thermowell connection.

Click to expand...

None to speak of - it's worked quite well. The one thing I'd flag is that there isn't a ton of clearance behind the valve to insert your thermoprobe. I have an STC-1000, and there's enough clearance to angle the probe in. If you're using a different probe, check the clearance before you drill.

I do love that I can swap out caps as needed - I have one with the probe drill, one that has a CO2 line hooked up to do gas-assisted racking, and one with a camlock attachment that I use to rack wort at the end of a brew day.

Can you post pictures of those and describe the processes?

Are you using this on the screw port at the top?

i guess I'm confused how you are using it to do a co2 push.

Frostbrewer said:

Can you post pictures of those and describe the processes?

Are you using this on the screw port at the top?

i guess I'm confused how you are using it to do a co2 push.

Click to expand...

I don't know about the poster you were referring to, but here is how I do CO2 transfers:

Remove airlock from Speidel and replace with stock cap with spigot (I have more than one)

Attached hose from CO2 regulator to spigot on top of the bucket

Attach a second hose to the other spigot on the bottom front of the bucket, then attach to this a ball lock beverage out quick disconnect and attach to the beverage out post of my keg.

I then turn on my regulator and push the beer out of the fermenter and directly to my keg. It takes very little PSI and goes directly into my keg without exposure to the atmosphere (or at least very little). I should probably try purging the keg with CO2 before transferring the beer next time.

OK, gave this project a whirl since I tried the Thermowell Carboy cap on my last batch and it failed to seal properly. They no longer sell the threaded neck caps BTW.

So, onto the specs (that worked for me):

1/2" drill bit
EWG-13 1/4"x1/2" Grommet

-Marked a starter hole/dent with an icepick into the Speidel lid.
-Drill a hole in the Speidel lid with the 1/2" drillbit
-Insert the EWG-13 Grommet into the 1/2" hole (it will fit 'ok', but not snug...that's ok. Once you insert the thermowell, it is VERY snug)
-Turn the lid upside down and rest the lid/grommet on a cutting board, next to the sink or a table edge so the large bubbler hole has a place to extend downward.
-Apply dishsoap or another safe lubricant to the 'flared' end of the thermowell, NOT the crimped end.
-At an angle, insert the thermowell into the grommet (that is now in the lid), keeping pressure on the lid against the cutting board (or else the grommett will be pushed through the 1/2" hole)
-Push thermowell through the grommet hole.
-BINGO, you are done with a very snug thermowell in your Speidel lid.

I figured out the right grommet size from a Variety pack I bought:
Cal-Hawk AZGA125 Rubber Grommet Assortment Set Electrical Gasket, 125 Piece

I've seen these packs as low as $4.50 at Sears.
http://www.sears.com/ctt-tools-inc-125-pc-rubber-grommet-assortment/p-SPM12955685019

Hope this helps.