Now a Riddle.

Essentially, if I put as much sugar as i could get into a one gallon batch of water- and ferment it out, would that make vodka or something of the such, eh?

No, unless you drink 48 proof vodka. The very best distiller's yeasts can get up to 24%, but it is a tricky process controlling the temperature and the results are not drinkable without distillation.

No. You would have some relatively low percentage alcohol mixed with water and yeast. In order to obtain a spirit that contains a higher percentage of ethanol and water you would have to distill it, which is illegal in the U.S.

John

Um, nope. Water has no nutrients in it on its own, so you'd get very sweet water that would poop out at the yeast's alcohol tolerance. For example, champagne yeast will ferment to about 18% max. Once you've reached that, the yeast will die out of alcohol poisoning. So whatever sugar is left will be left alone and not fermented. So, you'd get 18% alcohol sugar water. Or if you used grape juice- you'd get super sweet grape wine with 18% alcohol.
In order to get a pure alcohol, you'd have to distill it. Think "moonshine" with a still.

Lorena

Uh, how old are you? That's the kind of question usually posed by kidlings... just sayin'...

To answer, most beer yeasts will die out once the alcohol reaches 9% - 10% or so, give or take a few percent. Very high ABV brews will often call for a secondary fermentation using champagne yeast, which doesn't die until quite a bit higher. Vodka and other spirits are made by distilling - highly illegal in the States. The highest naturally fermented (not distilled) "spirit" that I know of is Sam Adams' Utipia, which is "only" 50 proof.

In any case, you would end up with some nasty-ass sugar water that was probably 6% - 8% or so, not anything remotely resembling a spirit or anything I would ever think about consuming.

You can do it with honey and make a mead. That is about as easy as it gets but it will still only be around 12% using wine yeast. Honey has flavor to it so whatever does not get fermented adds flavor to the final product.

The resulting liquid would be quite sweet and have a percentage of alcohol to the tollerance of the yeast, which has already been stated.
You can get turbo yeast which ferments out in 24-48 hours to 24%. You put a specific ammount of sugar in the fermentor, not as much as will disolve.
You can filter the mixture after it ferments and add flavorings or distill it, which is not illegal, as long as yo don't produce more than 10 gallons (I believe) a year.

I've never heard the 10-gallon a year limit; I always thought it was illegal, period.

BTW, I apologize for my earlier crack at your age, this is just the kind of question that always rings the alarm bells in my head.

Brew beer...it tastes better.

the_bird said:

I've never heard the 10-gallon a year limit; I always thought it was illegal, period.

BTW, I apologize for my earlier crack at your age, this is just the kind of question that always rings the alarm bells in my head.

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The crack was understandable, i am underage,- most of you know and its been discussed and brought up many times- it was just a question, now that i understand the process more clearly im just asking questions. Im pretty afraid of going blind so theres no need to worry about me trying i was just wondering. Also another way that i think this would work is to freeze basically whatever alcohol you have made solid- flip it over and let it drip out until you have a ball of white ice in the center then you have removed most of the water and made the abv higher.


I know i will be flamed for being young.


Flame away .

D*Bo said:

...or distill it, which is not illegal, as long as yo don't produce more than 10 gallons (I believe) a year.

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Wrong. It is federally illegal to distill hard alcohol, (even for personal consumption) no matter what the amount, without a license.

(from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms)

"You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant. [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying special tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequate equipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailed records, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.

Spirits may be produced for nonbeverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive ATF's approval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports."

John

johnsma22 said:

Wrong. It is federally illegal to distill hard alcohol, (even for personal consumption) no matter what the amount, without a license.

(from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms)

"You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant. [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying special tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequate equipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailed records, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.

Spirits may be produced for nonbeverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive ATF's approval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports."

John

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I wonder how many people they actually catch doing this just for themselves. I got the whole idea of homebrewing watching how they catch distillers on the discovery channel anyways.

How old id "under age"? Some parts of Canada, 18 is legal drinking age.

I think distilling is legal in small quantities in Canada. Been trying to figure that out for sure for years.

Dennys Fine Consumptibles said:

How old id "under age"? Some parts of Canada, 18 is legal drinking age.

I think distilling is legal in small quantities in Canada. Been trying to figure that out for sure for years.

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Im in the states, ill be able to vote soon.

Muntzster said:

Also another way that i think this would work is to freeze basically whatever alcohol you have made solid- flip it over and let it drip out until you have a ball of white ice in the center then you have removed most of the water and made the abv higher.

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You should've listened more in chemistry class. Alcohol freezes at a MUCH lower temperature than water. Most alcohol (ethyl is the variety we are concerned with) is also completely soluble in water, thereby lowering the freezing temperature of the water it is dissolved into. So even you if you could freeze your high in alcohol fermented concoction, you would be left with alcoholic ice cubes. There are stories from Alaska of people burning their throats on high proof whiskey because it hadn't frozen at ambient temperatures down to -60 degrees F. Internal contact frostbite...ouch! Anyway, in order to separate water and alcohol and still wind up with a drinkable product, you need to distill. Illegal first because home distillation is prohibited in the US. Even more illegal (is that possible?) because you are underage.

Relax, don't worry, have a soda until you're 21.

Distillation is the simplest form of chemistry. Evaporation followed by condensation. Alcohol boils at a lower temperature than water 160 degrees i believe maybe wrong will be corrected quickly. Anyway the alcohol boils off leaving water then you direct the alcohol steam through copper coils or glass where it cools and codenses and voila you have rotgut shine. That is of course if you don't blow yourself to high heaven or get arrested. Ethyl alcohol is highly flammable. As far as going blind that only happens if you don't use clean coils or make bathtub gin. Alot of backwoods folk were using whatever they had to cool the liquor most often radiator coils from rusted out cars and trucks. So as the steam traveled through the coils it leached chemicals from the rusted coils.

Basically unless you want to kill yourself or go to jail distillation is not worth it. A

Also you can buy machines that are for distilling oils and liquers but not meant for hard liquor.

If you really want to make some high proof spirits search the internet. I have come across stove top stills that use a tea kettle and a copper coil in a milk jug filled with ice water. The mash can be something simple as sugar water or full blown malted grain like you do in brewing. You will have to spend a little cash and fabricate the hardware but no major investment. The legal aspect, give me a break. You can purchase online fully fabricated distilling rigs. You would need a major operation to draw enough attention to be worried about. In which case you are young enough to plea youthful offender, lol. It might be a worth while thing to try as I don't see you being able to supply yourself with enough spirits quantity or quality wise to make it a recreational habit.

Going blind was more of a lead poisoning issue. Bootleggers were using car radiators containing lead as part of their rig. Using them as condensing coils leached the lead into the cooling spirits causing the ill effects.

A little bit of a sidetrack, but...

At the wine/beer shop where I part-time, one of our distributors' delivery guys who is a great guy and a friend of our beer manager was able to, somehow, some way, sneak us some stuff that Eggenberg did---they took their Urbock 23 (9% ABV) and Samichlaus (14% ABV), and distilled them. The resultant clear beverages were incredible...like extremely alcoholic liquid chocolate! Distilled beer is awesome!

I've tasted a few moonshine's from upstate NY and I'll tell ya right now its worth it to give your 21yr old buddy 30 bucks to pick up some store bought booze. Probably doesnt make a lot of sense right now, but most people on this forum drink alcoholic beverages for taste, not go get blitzkrieg'd.

Here's a very thorough site on at-home alcohol distillation:
http://homedistiller.org/

It's run by a Kiwi - where it's legal, incidentally - and covers about all the angles, techniques, and recepies you'd need. So, next time that "friend of yours" (wink, wink) goes down to New Zealand (wink, wink), you can try it out.

This website says that going blind from 'shine is caused by the "heads" of the alcohol (the methanol that evaporates first during the distilling portion) if they're not discarded. I'm sure the lead in the radiators didn't help any either - but important to note even these days next time you're stillin' down under.

Focus

:cross:

Additionally, I've tasted some killer 'shine from Tennessee. A friend brought it to my wedding - classy, I know - and people were drinking it on the rocks. I don't know what he did, but it was much better than the lighter fluid that I'd tasted from my country folk relatives as a kid.

The brew shop my boss visits has a still and sells stills.
They distill their own spirits. That's where I got my inffo.

D*Bo said:

The brew shop my boss visits has a still and sells stills.
They distill their own spirits. That's where I got my inffo.

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Sounds like the LHBS equivalent to the tobacco shop that sells water pipes and herbs.

D*Bo said:

The brew shop my boss visits has a still and sells stills.
They distill their own spirits. That's where I got my inffo.

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Whatever you do, don't mention the name of the place or they might just get a visit from the ATF!

John

Took a course in applachian folklore many years back - remember reading about skullcracker moonshine - so full of impurities that folks committed suicide to get away from the hangover headaches - likely a myth, but a good story nonetheless.....

Further affiant sayeth naught.....

Skol!

Luckillly I don't know the place, or if it's even over the border.

If you ever distill alchohol make sure you throw away the first distilled runnings. These will contain the nasties such as methol alchohol.

Dennys Fine Consumptibles said:

How old id "under age"? Some parts of Canada, 18 is legal drinking age.

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Unfortunately, you must be 21 in the US to be "legal". You can vote, graduate, get married, have kids, run for office, and die for your country at 18 but you can't have a beer. Thanks a lot, MADD. BTW I was old enough at 18 to drink, before the legal age changed, so I'm whining for others, not myself.

edit: yeah, I know if you're in the military you can drink in certain places, but IMHO that's not good enough.

the_bird said:

I've never heard the 10-gallon a year limit; I always thought it was illegal, period.

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I have been looking into home distilling for about the past 2 years. In the US it is illegal, period

ablrbrau said:

Unfortunately, you must be 21 in the US to be "legal". You can vote, graduate, get married, have kids, run for office, and die for your country at 18 but you can't have a beer. Thanks a lot, MADD. BTW I was old enough at 18 to drink, before the legal age changed, so I'm whining for others, not myself.

edit: yeah, I know if you're in the military you can drink in certain places, but IMHO that's not good enough.

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Yeah, I was in the reserves here in Canada when I was 17. They turned a very blind eye on base but off base, though perhaps becasue drinking age here is a provincial matter and we were on Federal property. Evenn in unifrom, on frackin' Rememberance Day, I got carded.. !@#$ Can die for your country, but can't drink a flippin beer. What a joke.

Did I ever mention how we were doing a navigation exercise during GMT (general miltary training ie "basic) and were split into squads and I ended up navigating the whole exercise by compass sine the rest of the squad had found some pot plants and decided to east the buds and decorate our cam netting with the leaves? (1989)