Using 50/50 Marris Otter and 2-Row

I would like to brew an american amber tomorrow.

I'm thinking ...

4 lb MO
4 lb 2-row
1 lb munich
1/2 lb vienna
1 lb crystal 80
1/4 lb carapils

American hops, probably mostly "C" hops, a bunch of late hopping with an IBU of around 40-45. Mash around 152.

I have not made up the recipe yet in beersmith.. but I'm thinking 0.75 OG/Hop ratio.

Most of the recipes I see have a base grain of all 2-row or all MO. What is wrong with mixing the 2 to get a slightly malty, but nicely aroma'ed west coast style light Amber?

Would you stick with one type of base grain?

There is nothing at all wrong with mixing the two. It can be pretty good.


TL

The fact that you're using Munich in the recipe to an extent offsets the inclusion of the domestic 2-row. The domestic 2-row adds less "malt" than the MO, the Munich adds more. So, nothing wrong with it, but I wonder if you could simplify to just using 9# of MO in place of the MO/domestic 2-row/Munich combo.

I think sierra nevada's Early Spring Beer is a 50/50 mix of the two.

the_bird said:

The fact that you're using Munich in the recipe to an extent offsets the inclusion of the domestic 2-row. The domestic 2-row adds less "malt" than the MO, the Munich adds more. So, nothing wrong with it, but I wonder if you could simplify to just using 9# of MO in place of the MO/domestic 2-row/Munich combo.

Click to expand...

This makes sense. I was adding munich because the pale ale I made with munich was delish. I am concerned using all MO would give me too malty a beer. I still want to keep it an american style and a little on the dry and hoppy side. Maybe I should just drop the munich by a lb and increase the MO by a lb.

2-row costs me $1.00/lb
MO costs me $1.40/lb
Munich (and all my specialty malts) cost me $1.40/lb

I liked your original recipe just the way it was. If I were to do anything at all, I would bring the crystal down to the 40-60 range. I am also not quite sure what a half pound of Vienna will do for you in that recipe, but it certainly will not hurt. You could just as easily drop it and bump your MO bill by that half pound and save a little complication. I doubt anyone would ever notice in that beer.

Munich brings more than mere maltiness, and a pound if it can be mighty good in an American Amber. I do not find MO or Vienna to be a compromise between U.S. pale malt and Munich malt.


TL

Oh, I *love* me some munich in a pale ale as well; my best "house" beers have had more than a pound. Personally, I'm not afraid of maltiness in my pale ales (within reason); remember the difference between the maltiness from Munich (and MO) is distinct from the sweetness that CAN really take away from a pale ale's drinkability.

So, I'd concur that the pound of crystal might be a little much, and I'd personally drop the carapils (since you aren't really looking for a lot of body here). If you're worried about head retention, toss in a half-pound of wheat.

I'm actually fine with the pound of crystal, too. I just thought it should come down to the more straight-up caramel range. I just put 18oz. of 55L crystal in an American hybrid (too brown for an amber or APA or IPA, too big for an amber or APA, not roasty), and it is not at all sweet (upon racking last night).

Of course, Bird, you are the guy that hates a sweeter American style, and I am the guy that has thrown three pounds of crystal in a batch. Maybe OP should not listen too much to either of us.


TL

Listen to Tex, not me!

I would have done the grain bill a little different, but as written originally, I agree that it'll be pretty good. Most of what I'm talking about is my own personal preferences.

I'll just shut up now.

TexLaw said:

I liked your original recipe just the way it was. If I were to do anything at all, I would bring the crystal down to the 40-60 range. I am also not quite sure what a half pound of Vienna will do for you in that recipe, but it certainly will not hurt. You could just as easily drop it and bump your MO bill by that half pound and save a little complication. I doubt anyone would ever notice in that beer.
TL

Click to expand...

I started with the 60L crystal, but the beersmith color chip did not come up enough to make it an "amber" color.


I think I'll get rid of the vienna. I am still doing my test batches to hone in on some house favorites. I tend to try too many things at once. I have some honey malt I want to try out, but don't know where to go with that. I have only made 25 so far in 10 months.

I put carapils in only for head retention. I don't have and wheat on hand, but will add that in the future for the same reason.

Thanks a lot for all the help Bird and Tex. I really appreciate it.

Mix em up baby...

Mash it higher and shorter for a fuller, maltier beer.

If you want color, add about a handful (seriously, no more than 4 oz, and probably less) of chocolate malt to the grain mill. It will add plenty of color and a bit of toasty maltiness, but you will not get any strong, roasty flavors or aroma.


TL

This thread got the wheels turning and so I just threw this together...might be a fun experiment.

Recipe: Alliance Ale
Style: American/English/German Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.20 gal
Boil Size: 6.28 gal
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 42.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 30.43 %
3.50 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 30.43 %
3.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 30.43 %
0.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4.35 %
0.30 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 2.61 %
0.20 lb Toasted Malt (27.0 SRM) Grain 1.74 %
0.75 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 35.8 IBU
0.75 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 5.1 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min)Hops 1.7 IBU
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 11.50 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 14.38 qt of water at 163.7 F 152.0 F

Sorry. this is a late post, but here is what I finally made this morning:

House Amber test #1

4.5 lb 2-row
4.5 lb Marris Otter
1 lb Munich
.75 lb Crystal 80L
.50 lb Honey Malt
.25 Lb Cara-pils/Dextrine

Mash at 156º
Batch Sparge
Galena Bittering, Columbus @ 20 min.
Cascade @ 15,5,0 min.

1.060 OG
39 IBU

Safale 05

I plan to dry hop with 1/2 oz. of cascade.

I threw in the honey malt at the last moment... just because I have not used it before.

The cold break was something else - reminds me of a sci-fi movie.

I post again once I taste it in 6-7weeks.