That missing malty flavor

I have been brewing for several years and all but the first few have been all-grain. For the most part my beers have been quite good. Except for one thing. Lately I have noticed that my beers are lacking in malt flavor. My porters and stouts in particular have almost none. To the point that they taste of roast and not much else. I am have been getting all of my recipes from Brewing Classic Styles so I know they are sound. Any ideas what could be causing this?

Pitch rate/Yeast Health.
Fermentation Temperature.
Malt quality.
Water Profile.

In that order. If your fermentations are near perfect, and you don't have a wacked out water profile than your BCS recipes should be good. Ingredients are more important for some beers, but less for others. You can make a great Munich Helles without great Pils malt, but a Stout has a lot going on so a less than stellar base malt won't kill you.

Try tasting some of his recipes next to the beer they are taken from, just so you can be sure you're not where you need to be. Brown Porter is S.Smith Taddy, for example.

Add more specialty malt like munich.

The way I understand it (and have been brewing...) is for a maltier flavor you need to use about 1qt water per lb of grain and mash at 155 for 60 mins instead of 1.5 qts per lb.

If you use more water then you'll end up with more fermentables which result in a thin drier brew.

Since it is a recent change, suspect your thermometer's calibration. If it is starting to read high, your worts will be more fermentable and have less residual malt.

I think a simple, inexpensive way to help would be just to toast a bit of your base malt in your oven. I use great western 2-row as my base and i toast it at different levels to get different effects. A particularly good method is to soak a measured amount of malted barley in water for about fifteen minutes, drain it and then put it on a baking sheet (make sure it is evenly spread on the pan and is not layered thick). Roast it in a 315 deg. oven. turn it every 7-8 minutes until it is dry, about 30 minutes. comes out to being like amber malt, 25-40 L, mildly sweet and very malty.

david_42 said:

Since it is a recent change, suspect your thermometer's calibration. If it is starting to read high, your worts will be more fermentable and have less residual malt.

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I was going to mention this as well, as it's very important. But the reason I didn't is that a highly fermentable beer can still be a MALTY beer.

Sweetness on the other hand is a different quality, though often confused. And malty sweetness and body will certainly be affected by a faulty thermometer.

I would certainly check your thermometer regardless!

I would also disagree with those who suggest toasting or adding different ingredients. It's not that it won't help, but this is a process/technique issue, or an ingredient quality issue. It is not a recipe issue in my opinion. Jamils recipes are some of the simplest and best out there. If they don't taste right then something is going wrong. I stand by that.

Sorry I should have specified. They don't lack body or sweetness just malt flavor. I know my thermometer is good since I just bought it and it was calibrated by the Department of Weights and Measures guidlines. My fement temps are right on as I use a ranco temp controller in a chest freezer.

I never thought about my source of grain though. They are a reputable store but maybe I'll try somewhere else for a few brews.

I'm finally learning about water chemistry and was shocked to read about how much sulfate/chloride ratio plays in whether a beer will taste malty or bitter. Time to send your brew water for testing to see if that's the issue.

Bobby_M said:

I'm finally learning about water chemistry and was shocked to read about how much sulfate/chloride ratio plays in whether a beer will taste malty or bitter. Time to send your brew water for testing to see if that's the issue.

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But Bobby...as an expat Jerseyite I have to ask how radioactive is your water?

Hey, I'm coming back to Rockaway, 21-25 Sep. Any chance we finally getting together for a brew or two? Any club meeting that week? I already met the guys at NJHOPZ in Hackettstown.

If the wife doesn't come along I hope to bring a keg of something...

I'll make sure I free up some time Bill. The Whales meeting is the previous week unfortunately.

Bobby_M said:

I'm finally learning about water chemistry and was shocked to read about how much sulfate/chloride ratio plays in whether a beer will taste malty or bitter. Time to send your brew water for testing to see if that's the issue.

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You know I have just started playing with water too. As of now I was focusing on mash ph and alkalinity. But now that you mention it my chloride to sulfate ratio is more than 3 to 1 in favor of chloride. That is really not helping.

Hmmm, I think higher chloride is "very malty" so maybe that's not it.

FWIW, IMHO the idea that mashing even as thin as 2qt/lb makes a more fermentable wort and thinner beer is completely false.

Also, with regard to the malt. It may not be the store you are buying from, but the BRAND of malt you are buying. What brand is your malt?

Oops... its 3 to 1 in favor of sulfates.

I knew what I meant but apparently can't type it.

As for the brand of malt. The pilsner is Wyerman. Marris Otter is Fawcett. And I think American 2 row is Briess.

Ah, yep. That is going to be a problem. It might not be your only problem, but that will have a major effect on the perception of maltiness.

Download Palmer's spreadsheet here.

Though I don't know your overall mineral content (just the ratio of sulfate to chloride) You might have to resort to RO or distilled water in order to avoid too many minerals overall. For example, you definitely need to add some chloride ions. But the salts you add to do that will contain other ions too. Therefore the total mineral content could get out of hand. The spreadsheet will help.

Play around with this, it should make a noticeable difference!

homebrewer_99 said:

The way I understand it (and have been brewing...) is for a maltier flavor you need to use about 1qt water per lb of grain and mash at 155 for 60 mins instead of 1.5 qts per lb.

If you use more water then you'll end up with more fermentables which result in a thin drier brew.

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Boy, I've got to say that I've never found that to be the case for me. I recently have gone to using 1.75 qt./lb. and haven't found a decrease in maltiness.

Denny said:

Boy, I've got to say that I've never found that to be the case for me. I recently have gone to using 1.75 qt./lb. and haven't found a decrease in maltiness.

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I always brew at 2.0qt/lb and the FGs have not been any lower than last year when I brewed the same beers at 1.25qt/lb. I know this myth has been around a while, and maybe it does make a difference if you get up to 3+ qts/lb... but nothing changes at 2.0qts/lb

Denny said:

Boy, I've got to say that I've never found that to be the case for me. I recently have gone to using 1.75 qt./lb. and haven't found a decrease in maltiness.

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Only relaying what I've read in several books.

You know just maybe this hobby is still too new that truth/fantasy/hearsay/conjecture, etc. are still one...

I like my brews malty (9 years of living in Germany...) so I haven't deviated to see if this holds true or not. Maybe someday I'll use more than 1 1/4 qts per lb.