1 2 or 3 tier electric? Talk me out of 3...

So getting ready to move to all grain as soon as the weather breaks here I have everything but my stand/pump ideas...

I have two 9 gallon SS pots with 2 1500 watt heatsticks and a 10gallon cooler MT and control panel built and ready.

I am sticking to 5 gallon batches as I really want to brew more often and experiment.

I had planned to go with a single pump, 1 tier setup, then a 2 tier single pump with gravity from MT to BK, but now I'm thinking really why mess with a pump at all? They sound like a headache and I worry if used from BK to primary contamination. I was thinking only use the pump to move liquid before the boil.

Seems like a 3 tier made from wood (all electric) would be less hassle.

No pump or hoses to clean, no worry about losing prime, no worry about stuck sparges, etc..

I have a sightglass and thermometer on the HLT, so is it really a pain to have it up high?

Money isn't the issue, I just worry about adding extra work and risk when I'm only doing 5gallon batches... I use an IC by the way. All pots have ball valves.

No recirculating system here? Just electric heating?

I am not sure what I would do if I hadn't gone down the path I went down.

My whole venture into electric started with my wife insisting that I get a pump because she didn't like me up on a ladder with a pot full of sparge water ready to dump into the MLT.

After I had the pump, and already had a copper coil... my mind started to wander towards HERMS.

Oh.... and the pump is really not a hassle, IMO. I've had no more or less issues with stuck sparge using a pump than I did when I used gravity.

It would be the easiest. Run a pipe form the bottom of the stand to the top so you can attach a hose to the bottom and let it fill your HLT up top. Then you're not worrying climbing and lifting water. Then you just have to climb to open a valve. Put a sight glass on the HLT so you can measure the water coming out and into the Mash Tun. Then a sight glass on the BK so you can see how much you're collecting.

I've got a 3 tier system with an electric HLT. I've got water piped right up to the HLT so I don't have to lift anything. If you want to keep it simple, and you have the vertical room for it (your stand will be tall) 3 tier is the way to go. Plumbing (and also cleaning and sanitation) is also easier on a 3 tier gravity system.

One other thing, if you're going 3 tier, think about how high your mash tun will end up being, especially if you want to gravity feed from your boil kettle into the fermenter. I've got a 2.5 gallon system, so i don't need a stool to mash in, but with a 5 gallon system, you may need to.

Fwiw, the gravity fed 3 tier I'm planning on building will stand almost 96" tall when including the height of my hlt.

Great info guys..

Baj, yes my thought was to place a better bottle down, measure the height of my ball valve on the BK about 6 inches higher, then the MT valve 6 inches higher , then the HLT, so I can gravity to primary for sure but keep the stand as short as I can.. I want to use a wort sprayer to aerate.

I have planned to run copper up the end with a hose attach at bottom, 3 nozzles mid way up and then a hook up to HLT. So I can hook up a sprayer, my IC and a bottle washer nozzle.

Guess I should measure out the heights and make sure its not crazy.

Walker, no circ or anything on this setup. Maybe when I mount elements and go 240 down the road though. I assume I could always add a pump and build a better stand then. Not like a wood stand is costly, and I like making new stuff.

So far I think I'm still set on 3 tier...

I had a 3-tier when I was using propane.. I didn't like having to stand on a ladder to pour water into the HLT. Granted, I could have plumbed in a line to fill the HLT - but that seemed like more hassle and cost since I really wanted to go 2 or 1 tier. I ended up with a 2 tier as you describe. I like being able to look into my MLT and HLT without being on a ladder. Also, it stores so much more nicely than my 3 tier ever did. It fits easily under the cabinets on the wall in my garage.

Also, pump contamination isn't an issue - run the pump for the last 10 minutes of the boil to sanitize, I've never heard of anyone having any issues.

bruin_ale said:

I had a 3-tier when I was using propane.. I didn't like having to stand on a ladder to pour water into the HLT. Granted, I could have plumbed in a line to fill the HLT - but that seemed like more hassle and cost since I really wanted to go 2 or 1 tier. I ended up with a 2 tier as you describe. I like being able to look into my MLT and HLT without being on a ladder. Also, it stores so much more nicely than my 3 tier ever did. It fits easily under the cabinets on the wall in my garage.

Also, pump contamination isn't an issue - run the pump for the last 10 minutes of the boil to sanitize, I've never heard of anyone having any issues.

Click to expand...

So you recirc the boil back to itself? Does this sanitize the ball valve well enough?

yeah, recirc the boiling wort out through the ball valve, the pump, my plate chiller, then back to the kettle. All sanitized, ready to drain after flameout

I say do a 2-tier system with the HLT high, gravity feeding down, and a pump feed from MLT to BK.

TheSlash said:

Baj, yes my thought was to place a better bottle down, measure the height of my ball valve on the BK about 6 inches higher, then the MT valve 6 inches higher , then the HLT, so I can gravity to primary for sure but keep the stand as short as I can..
...

Click to expand...

Keep the stand as short as you can. IMO there is no need for 6" additional b/w vessels. HLT to MT can be at the minumum, you never "overfill" the MT do you?? You likely don't fill the BK to the rim? The ball valve only needs to be as high as the foreseen level you intend to fill the next vessel. I see 3 tiers all the time that have an additional 18-20" extra height. One trick is to run the outlet tubing through the keggle handle.

Shorter more "cubic" vessels can reduce the overall height req'd for three tiers.

wilserbrewer said:

Keep the stand as short as you can. IMO there is no need for 6" additional b/w vessels. HLT to MT can be at the minumum, you never "overfill" the MT do you?? You likely don't fill the BK to the rim? The ball valve only needs to be as high as the foreseen level you intend to fill the next vessel. I see 3 tiers all the time that have an additional 18-20" extra height. One trick is to run the outlet tubing through the keggle handle.

Shorter more "cubic" vessels can reduce the overall height req'd for three tiers.

Click to expand...

Exactly my thoughts. I see these 7 or 8 foot tall HLT's and I just wonder why.

My goal is to have the whole thing not more than 6 or so inches taller than all my pots stacked on the primary.

Look at it this way. A $120 pump at minimum would move your entire operation down by at least 20" and you wouldn't have to get on a step stool to stir your mash.

Walker said:

My whole venture into electric started with my wife insisting that I get a pump because she didn't like me up on a ladder with a pot full of sparge water ready to dump into the MLT.

After I had the pump, and already had a copper coil... my mind started to wander towards HERMS.

Click to expand...

Bobby_M said:

Look at it this way. A $120 pump at minimum would move your entire operation down by at least 20" and you wouldn't have to get on a step stool to stir your mash.

Click to expand...

Like Walker, the reason I even started thinking of an electric system at all was because pouring boiling water, lifting heavy MLTs full of grain, etc, was a drag. I needed a pump. They're not a pain at all!

And like Bobby said, if you don't have to be on a step stool to stir your mash, that's a bonus. I'm short, so I still stand on a stool to mash in but then don't have to ever get up on a step again during the brewday. I have one pump, and gravity drain to the BK. With one pump, you can run a HERMS and also pump through a CFC. My system is two tier.

My system is ugly- the stand is just some metal shelving. But it's efficient, no heavy lifting at all, and super easy to clean.

Ok, Bobby and Yooper in my thread telling me to pump it up!

Going to just do it.. Thanks =)

P.S. Bobby, sight glass and valves are awesome, thanks.

TheSlash said:

Ok, Bobby and Yooper in my thread telling me to pump it up!

Going to just do it.. Thanks =)

Click to expand...

Oh, sure... it's don't listen to me, but when the young punk and the old woman suggest it, it's go time.

I see how you are.

Walker said:

Oh, sure... it's don't listen to me, but when the young punk and the old woman suggest it, it's go time.

I see how you are.

Click to expand...

Hey! Stop denigrating your elders young man! I'll hit you with my cane.

Walker said:

Oh, sure... it's don't listen to me, but when the young punk and the old woman suggest it, it's go time.

I see how you are.

Click to expand...

lol. Love your posts, but I think I try to get that avatar out of my head right away!

Thanks..

Walker said:

Oh, sure... it's don't listen to me, but when the young punk and the old woman suggest it, it's go time.

I see how you are.

Click to expand...

Seriously.. we both said the exact same thing. No respect I tell ya!

TheSlash said:

Money isn't the issue, I just worry about adding extra work and risk when I'm only doing 5gallon batches... I use an IC by the way. All pots have ball valves.

Click to expand...

Well, if money isn't an issue, I'd recommend getting a CFC or a plate chiller while you're at it.

But on the topic of tiers, my homebrewery system list can be sorted by tiers (just click on the heading "Tiers"). Maybe that could be a source of inspiration for you.

When I decide to build a brew stand it'll be 2 tier. BUT, I'll gravity fill the MLT from the HLT and pump the MLT and BK (single pump). Then switch hoses and pump from BK to fermentor. This will make it even easier on adding grain and stirring the mash. Now I just gotta talk SWMBO into a pump....and 2 more keggles...