Founders All Day IPA

Interesting. I think the carbonation will change a few things don't you?

So on a scale of 1 (not a clone) to 10 (clone) what is your opinion?

brewski09 said:

UPDATED: Using Amarillo hops

I'm thinking its just base malt with some light caramels for a touch of color.

single infusion mash with 75% efficiency. SG=1.048 FG=1.012 SRM=6 IBU=42.1 using Rager. ABV clocks in between 4.4% and 4.8% depending on the yeast strain used.

3.36kg 2-row base malt
0.63kg Caramel 20L

0.75oz Cascade 8.9%AA 50 minutes
0.50oz Amarillo 8.6%AA 25 minutes
1 oz Amarillo 8.6%AA 10 minutes
1 oz Centennial 9.9%AA Dryhop for 1 week

Use a neutral yeast like WLP001, or whatever you use for your house strain. Wyeast 1056? Safale US-05?

You can sub in 3kg Briess CBW Golden Light LME and remove all grains to get about 4.5%ABV and SRM=5 with IBU=43. Let's get some discussion on this idea and see what people think about it. If you want to adjust the color darker, use a little bit of Chocolate malt since it acts like a Caramel malt in small quantities and won't change the flavor like a roasted barley or black patent malt will. You also don't need to mash chocolate malt, just steep for 30 minutes between 140-170F (closer to 140 for less bitterness from the husk).

I used Cascade for bitterness and the citrus peel flavor. i used the centennial dry hopping flavors and aroma because i use it frequently and thought i tasted it, but not overpowering.

Click to expand...

Changes
Add in 112grams of Rye Malt (the extract will be fine without this part). The Cascade is replaced by Simcoe - 9grams at 13%AA. The 25 minute Amarillo goes from 14g to 21g. The 8 Minute Amarillo goes from 1oz to 2oz. I would try this one next and I think it will be extremely close. i'll get some more for side by side and see how it stands up.

maybe a 6ish with potential for more like an 8-9 with the changes above.

Homercidal said:

Where can I find this All Day IPA?? I haven't seen it at the beer store that's only 1.5 hours from the brewery...

Click to expand...

Wow, I'm in Chicagoland and I had this over a month ago. It's phenomenal. I bought another sixer of it two weeks ago (I don't often buy a beer more than once).

I would assume it's all over there place in Michigan.

TheMan said:

Wow, I'm in Chicagoland and I had this over a month ago. It's phenomenal. I bought another sixer of it two weeks ago (I don't often buy a beer more than once).

I would assume it's all over there place in Michigan.

Click to expand...

I could probably get it if I lived in a larger city. Once the major markets are supplied they will probably decide to start allowing the small guys to have some.

We had some in Dayton for 2 weeks. Now it's gone. I guess it's just a seasonal thing for us?

This thread has made me realize how spoiled I am being a 10 minute drive from Founders' tap room.

I like the look of the clone you guys are working on though. All Day is a really good session beer. Tons of citrus with a little bit of bite, which is probably the notes of Rye some of you have mentioned.

You are lucky!

Well, it's cool brewski09 is going for it.

I've searched the internets and haven't seen a clone anywhere.

msmith92 said:

You are lucky!

Well, it's cool brewski09 is going for it.

I've searched the internets and haven't seen a clone anywhere.

Click to expand...

All things considered this is pretty quick turnaround since this beer just started getting distributed a couple months ago. It's been on tap at Founders for over a year now, and was called Endurance Ale before they changed the name to All Day IPA. Ever since I started homebrewing I wanted to make something similar to it, even if it wasn't a perfect clone. I've got a batch dry hopping right now that used Simcoe, Amarillo and Citra that has similar ABV and IBU's to All Day. I'm pretty excited to get it bottled and carbed.

Hmm..we've been questioning the Citra. What made you go that route?

msmith92 said:

Hmm..we've been questioning the Citra. What made you go that route?

Click to expand...

I wasn't specifically trying to clone All Day, but I wanted a beer with the same characteristics, good hop aroma without overwhelming bitterness, low to mid 40's IBU/OG, and high alpha newer american varieties which are my favorite. Essentially, a tasty "Session IPA." I've never brewed with Citra and wanted to give it a try. Once someone establishes a good All Day clone though I am sure I will give it a shot.

It will be a few weeks until I brew again. Anyone want to take on the updated version?

HopRodGR said:

I wasn't specifically trying to clone All Day, but I wanted a beer with the same characteristics, good hop aroma without overwhelming bitterness, low to mid 40's IBU/OG, and high alpha newer american varieties which are my favorite. Essentially, a tasty "Session IPA." I've never brewed with Citra and wanted to give it a try. Once someone establishes a good All Day clone though I am sure I will give it a shot.

Click to expand...

you'll have to let us know how your beer turns out. can you post the recipe on this thread too?

brewski09 said:

you'll have to let us know how your beer turns out. can you post the recipe on this thread too?

Click to expand...

Sure, here it is.

A few notes. First, I think I mistakenly said I already started dry hopping. I actually just transferred it tonight. Hydro sample tasted very nice, good citrus flavor already, exactly what I was going for. Second, it'll be 4-5 weeks before this one will be ready, between dry hopping and bottle conditioning.

A few changes I would make when I brew this again.

1. To get closer to the profile of All Day, I'd move the Simcoe 30 min addition to 45, and choose another hop addition for 15-20. I'll probably going with something mid-alpha, likely Ahtanum or Cascade, maybe even more Amarillo. That should get this closer to 42-45 IBU's. I had originally planned on this being more bitter, but this was my first all grain brew and my efficiency was on the high end of what I expected, so I eased up on the hops just a bit.

2. I think I might try replacing 2-4oz of the Carapils with a like amount of honey malt. I'd like to experiment with it and think it might go well with this recipe, though if you wanted a bit of a bite, you could replace this with rye instead. That's totally up to personal preference though. US-05 attenuates very well (82% for me this time), so I'm not worried about too much residual sweetness.

For those looking for an extract version, I believe subbing 3.25lb of Pilsen Light DME and 1.75lb of Golden Light DME should work for the base grains. Steep the C40 and Carapils for 30.


Recipe: Doubleheader Session Ale
Brewer: Nick
Asst Brewer:
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.72 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.72 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 4.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 76.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs 4.0 oz Briess 2 Row Brewers Malt (1.8 SRM) 60.0 %
2 lbs 12.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) 31.4 %
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) 5.7 %
4.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) 2.9 %
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min 19.4 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min 6.0 IBUs
0.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min 3.3 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min 4.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 1.0 min 1.0 IBUs

1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)

1.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 14.0 Days


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 8 lbs 12.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 11.54 qt of water at 163.6 F 152.0 F 60 min
Mash Out Add 7.00 qt of water at 198.0 F 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun, , 3.02gal, 0.27gal) of 168.0 F water

Nice thanks for the feedback on your clone. Did you do a side by side? I am curious too if it is Amarillo or Citra because I am not familiar with citra. Here is what I think the malt bill should roughly be:

8 lbs 2 row
0.5 lbs munich 20
1 or 1.5 lbs of rye

I have switched to Munich for my pales and IPA and have been brewing with it a lot lately. I think that it creates a crisper / dryer malt background that helps accentuate hop flavors better than crystal.

There isn't much head retention on All day so I think the malt bill is pretty thin. Having such a low ABV allows less body to cover the ethanol flavor. The color is also quite light so that is why I think it could be Munich instead of crystal.

It will be 4-5 weeks before the dry hopping is done, so I won't know till then. Like I said earlier I'm not aiming to clone All Day, just brew something nice and hoppy that had similarities, so it won't bother me if the flavor is different.

As far as your ratio of Rye, I think that's probably high. Red's Rye from Founders only uses about 10% rye in the grain bill (direct from Founders per another thread), so I'd be pretty surprised if there was that much in All Day. I have not brewed with it yet, but I've heard a little rye goes a long way.

Correction: 4-5 weeks before dry hopping and bottle conditioning are done.

You could be right on the rye. I almost always throw a pound into my IPAs but they are usually pretty big brews and not as light as the target All Day bill. 1 lb might come through a bit more in the lighter beer than what it does in my heavier IPA bill.

I have a top secret batch that I half tailored to be an All Day Clone so I want to share it because I am doing a side by side right now and they are fairly close.

My Extract APA - 6 gal boil
Malts------------
6lbs Pilsen DME
0.5 lbs Munich 20
0.25 lbs Victory
0.5 lbs red wheat

Hops-----(60 min boil)
10 M - 2.5 oz Chinook whole leaf
10 M - 1 oz Cascade pellets
Dry (in keg) - 2 oz Cascade pellets in mesh bag

Pitched 1056

Target ABV = 4.72%
Target IBU = 42.16

Upon side by side with All Day, mine is lighter in color and more orange where All Day has a browner tint. The body of mine is thicker and a bit sweeter. All Day definitely has a rye spice where mine does not. The All Day malt profile almost tastes a bit oxidized (bottle source) but it is a little more round so I think they are using some caramel in there, hence why it is a bit darker than mine.

The bitterness is spot on in regards to harshness so I think chinook is a good candidate for bittering. The hop flavor is really close as well but I think it is missing that Amarillo tangerine note.

Here is what I want to adjust the next batch to be which will be all grain.

Malt bill ------
8.5 lbs 2row
0.5 lbs Munich 20
0.5 lbs Caramel 10
0.75 lbs Rye

Hops----(60 min boil)
10 M - 2.5 oz Chinook
10 M - 1 oz Cascade
Dry - 2 oz cascade, 1 oz Amarillo

1056 yeast.

I won't have time to re-brew this one any time soon but someone should give this adjustment recipe a go and see how it compares. It should be fairly close.

Here is a pic. All Day on the left, mine on the right. It is a bit cloudy but is the first few pints from the keg.

ColumbusAmongus said:

Here is a pic. All Day on the left, mine on the right. It is a bit cloudy but is the first few pints from the keg.

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting. Looks great!

i won't have fundings to do this beer next. but i do have more questions.

i found a few bottles at my local store and i really get a huge grapefruit taste out of this beer.

are there hops or yeast that fit a profile like that?

msmith92 said:

i won't have fundings to do this beer next. but i do have more questions.

i found a few bottles at my local store and i really get a huge grapefruit taste out of this beer.

are there hops or yeast that fit a profile like that?

Click to expand...

It could be a house strain like Bells Brewery uses, but I am thinking more hops. That's why I went with Cascade, but that's more of a non distinct orange that a grapefruit. I am now leaning towards Simcoe bittering, maybe flavor addition too. Still Amarillo flavor and huge aroma though.

This is the Simcoe hop description from Rebel Brewer's website

Description: Very unique pine-like aroma with grapefruit and pineapple notes.
Low Co-humulone level (17%) makes for a very clean bittering.
Known as a bittering hop with good aroma characteristics.

brewski09 said:

This is the Simcoe hop description from Rebel Brewer's website

Description: Very unique pine-like aroma with grapefruit and pineapple notes.
Low Co-humulone level (17%) makes for a very clean bittering.
Known as a bittering hop with good aroma characteristics.

Click to expand...

Well that sounds spot on.

This information was on the Founder's Blog

"A description. The beer you’ve been waiting for. Keeping your taste satisfied while keeping your senses sharp. An all-day IPA naturally brewed with a complex array of malts, grains, and hops. Perfectly balanced for aggressive aromatics, moderate bitterness and a remarkably clean finish. It’s the perfect companion for tall tales around the bonfire, working around the yard, or introducing great craft beer to your Uncle Ernie and Aunt Claudia.

The stats. 4.7% ABV, 42 IBUs, 6 SRM

Tasting notes. Fresh and hoppy, tropical fruits, oats and wheat.

Ingredients. Three varieties of malts, Simcoe and Amarillo hops (among others).

The accolades. Won a silver medal at the 2010 GABF"

Hah! We are almost there. Now that we have the Simcoe right. Time to focus on malts a bit more...

Wayne1 said:

This information was on the Founder's Blog

Ingredients. Three varieties of malts

Click to expand...

do you think this means 3 types of malt such as 2-row base, crystal, and something like rye? The other option to me is Barley (both base 2-row and crystal), Rye, and Wheat malt all together. if its just barley, rye and wheat with no crystal, then a hotter mash is needed to achieve more residual sugars, but that is doable...

As Founder's is not available in CO, I have not had the chance to taste the beer.

Perhaps the description gives some more clues:

Three varieties of malts...oats and wheat

It may be that the recipe is simply barley, oats and wheat. All are offered as malted. It might be worth a try.

I was doing some research on the Harpoon Leviathan Imperial IPA and I am starting to think that the Dryhopping on this beer may be a bit more complex. Leviathan uses Simcoe, Amarillo, and Centennial as well as Chinook. Not sure how they dryhop yet, but I think this one may be a slightly milder version of the Leviathan. Just a thought in case anyone knows anything about the Leviathan beer that I don't.

New Recipe
SG=1.048 @75% Efficiency
FG=1.012
SRM=6
IBU=43.2 using Rager
ABV=4.8%

7lb 2oz Briess 2-row Pale (81%)
1lb 2oz Briess Caramel 20L (13%)
4oz Briess Red Wheat Malt (3%)
4oz Briess Rye Malt (3%)

Mash at a low temp like 148 for 1 hour.

Hop Schedule
0.25oz Simcoe 60 minutes
0.5oz Simcoe 30 minutes
0.25oz Amarillo 30 minutes
0.75oz Amarillo 8 minutes

Dryhop
0.5oz Amarillo 7 days
0.5oz Simcoe 7 days
0.5oz Centennial 7 days (can be increased to 1oz if not enough to your taste)

WLP001 California Ale

Extract version does not include wheat or rye malt, but should still be relatively close. Use 2 cans of Briess CBW Golden Light Extract (1.5kg per can) and 6oz Briess 20L steeped at 150-160F for 30-60 minutes.

brewski09 said:

New Recipe
SG=1.048 @75% Efficiency
FG=1.012
SRM=6
IBU=43.2 using Rager
ABV=4.8%

7lb 2oz Briess 2-row Pale (81%)
1lb 2oz Briess Caramel 20L (13%)
4oz Briess Red Wheat Malt (3%)
4oz Briess Rye Malt (3%)

Mash at a low temp like 148 for 1 hour.

Hop Schedule
0.25oz Simcoe 60 minutes
0.5oz Simcoe 30 minutes
0.25oz Amarillo 30 minutes
0.75oz Amarillo 8 minutes

Dryhop
0.5oz Amarillo 7 days
0.5oz Simcoe 7 days
0.5oz Centennial 7 days (can be increased to 1oz if not enough to your taste)

WLP001 California Ale

Extract version does not include wheat or rye malt, but should still be relatively close. Use 2 cans of Briess CBW Golden Light Extract (1.5kg per can) and 6oz Briess 20L steeped at 150-160F for 30-60 minutes.

Click to expand...

I'll brew this (extract) recipe next week (start 4-14-12).

Thanks!

awesome. i think it will be pretty close and have a lot of complexity. I saved the first recipe into my library so I can brew it again this summer. cheers!

I'd love to try this recipe soon, but there's problem. My LHBS is out of simcoe and says that they have no idea when it's coming in next. Any good simcoe substitutions?

Also, what about adding some rye LME for us extract brewers?

I don't know of a eye extract myself. You can do it without it though and it should be fine. No Simcoe substitution either. Try hopunion online or another vendor. Sorry

Simcoe and Amarillo are pretty much sold out across the country. Some vendors may have small quantities that they want a fair amount of money for.

You can try LabelPeelers

Finally got to try this one. Not bad. I think they got what they were going after, but I would have preferred a bit more body. That would have taken away from the "being able to drink them all day" aspect a bit, but I wasn't a fan of the huge amount of hops and the watery mouthfeel combination.

I would have preferred a low ABV IPA with a bit more backbone. Personally, I'm not drinking more than a couple in a day anyway.

brewski09 said:

I don't know of a eye extract myself. You can do it without it though and it should be fine. No Simcoe substitution either. Try hopunion online or another vendor. Sorry

Click to expand...

Northern Brewer makes a rye extract, but I've never used it.

Uziyahu said:

Northern Brewer makes a rye extract, but I've never used it.

Click to expand...

If you can steep grains, you can use Rye. Just do a mini countertop mash using a really small cooler, like 2 gallons or less. Heck you could even do this in the brewpot if you just extend your steeping from 30 mins to 60. I'd say for most beers, as long as the rye was less than 15-20% of the grain bill, this would be your best option.

HopRodGR said:

If you can steep grains, you can use Rye. Just do a mini countertop mash using a really small cooler, like 2 gallons or less. Heck you could even do this in the brewpot if you just extend your steeping from 30 mins to 60. I'd say for most beers, as long as the rye was less than 15-20% of the grain bill, this would be your best option.

Click to expand...

30 minutes would likely be sufficient if you used a 2:1 ratio of 2-row to rye malt. I would just start the temp at 155 for the mini mash and let it run without concern of the temp or sugar types. It is such a small amount it won't change the beer. BYO did an experiment on starch conversion times and found many people achieve conversion well under the hour mark.

Homercidal said:

Finally got to try this one. Not bad. I think they got what they were going after, but I would have preferred a bit more body. That would have taken away from the "being able to drink them all day" aspect a bit, but I wasn't a fan of the huge amount of hops and the watery mouthfeel combination.

I would have preferred a low ABV IPA with a bit more backbone. Personally, I'm not drinking more than a couple in a day anyway.

Click to expand...

Mash the all grain version at 154-156 and see how that works for you. That's the nice thing about a clone, you can also make changes to the beer. Cheers