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mjatrucker

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On Saturday I brewed an APA. It was an all grain recipe. I used 12 lbs. of Caramel/Crystal malt-40L. and did a two stage sparge resulting in a 5 gallon batch. For the yeast I used Wyeast 1056.

After two days in the fermenter, I had no fermentation. I think what happened is that I activated the nutrient packet within the yeast pouch 3 days prior to brewing. After activating the yeast nutrient, I refrigerated the package to try to slow the yeast down. By Saturday the package was swollen to the point that the package was hard. When pitching the yeast I had to cut the package with a knife to open it. As you can imagine the package burst and I know I lost some yeast outside the fermenter.

I think my lack of fermentation could be two fold:

1. Three days of yeast nutrient activation caused the yeast to consume all the nutrient and this resulted in dead yeast.

2. Losing yeast to the bursting of the package resulted in an insufficient quantity of yeast getting into the wort.

My local brew supplier did not have any Wyeast 1056 or an equivalent strain in stock. They directed me to use:

2 Packages of Fermentis Safale US-05 11.5g.
5tsp. of Fermax Yeast Nutrient

These were mixed into 1.5 C of boiled and cooled water that was then pitched into the wort.

Any thoughts on this?
 
If you used 12lbs of crystal malt, I doubt there's much fermentable sugar in your beer.
 
#1 -Not likely
#2 unless you lost MOST of the yeast there is still enough to start fermentation.

Even one smackpack is usually considered underpitching. see mrmalty.com

When you pitched the yeast was it still cold. If so the yeast was dormant and will have to "wake up" then reproduce to the appropriate population before you will get much fermentation.

If you pitched 2 packs of US-05 you now have a TON of yeast and you should see something very soon,

All Crystal 40 with no base malts seems strange to me but I have so far done only kits and semi proven recipes. Though it should still ferment (I think)
 
I pitched the yeast at room temp not right out of the fridge.

I am getting good bubbling action now with the second addition of yeast.
 
The first starter. After the second day in the pouch you should have pitched the yeast into a wort with a gravity of 1.040. This with allow your yeast to culture and create a larger cell count without too much alcohol. I prefer using a spin plate and approximately 500mL of wart! By putting the starter aside for 3 days in the pouch you very well could have killed the yeast. There is not a lot of headspace and lack of oxygen. You also did not mention your sanitation process. Was the tool used to open pouch sanitized? The yeast was at a very fragile state at this point. This could have resulted in the lack of fermentation. These are all that could have went wrong, it is a lot!
All said, the starter smack packs are designed for same day use. Approximately 3 to 5 hours prior to pitching. Sanitize packet and hands. The packet has a point for easy opening and no tool (Scissor or knife) should be necessary to open. Again SANITATION!!!! With only 12 lbs. of grain your SG could not have been very much. I am guessing 1.040 plus or minus. Fermentation would be slow and almost unnoticed depending on head space in fermentor. So creating a starter is not needed.

Your second pitch….

Pitching instructions:

Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C (80F ± 6F). Once the expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to 30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.
Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration. :mug:
 
Did you ever take a gravity reading or are you going by airlock bubbles to decry whether fermentation is happennig or not?

Yeast can take up to 72 hours to even begin fermenting your beer. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/, and by visible signs we don't necessarily mean a bubbling airlock. it means gravity reading

It IS a sticky at the top of the beginners forum for a reason, afterall. ;)

I do believe today is tuesday, you pitched on Saturday? It's just barely at the 72 hour mark. Take a gravity reading.
 
On Saturday I brewed an APA. It was an all grain recipe. I used 12 lbs. of Caramel/Crystal malt-40L. and did a two stage sparge resulting in a 5 gallon batch. For the yeast I used Wyeast 1056.

Was this a typo or was that really your grain bill?
 
I wonder how much hops would be needed to get that beer balanced. :drunk:
 
Thanks for the information. I used 5-star for sanitation. I cleaned and scrubbed everything with C-Brite and then sanitized with 5-Star, including the yeast packet. The yeast packet was so swollen I couldn't use the tear tab on the package. I did sanitize the knife blade before opening package. My OG was 1035
 
Thanks for the information. I used 5-star for sanitation. I cleaned and scrubbed everything with C-Brite and then sanitized with 5-Star, including the yeast packet. The yeast packet was so swollen I couldn't use the tear tab on the package. I did sanitize the knife blade before opening package. My OG was 1035

Not your OG, your current gravity, that's the ONLY way to know if you have fermentation or not right now. Nothing else is an accurate indicator of what's going on.
 
1. Revvy is correct that signs of fermentation can take a while to show themselves, especially if your lid on your fermentation bucket isn't sealing right or your carboy bung isn't in there tight or a whole host of other things. The thread he posted is relevant.

2. I'm more concerned about the fact that he's saying this recipe is 100% crystal 40. 12 lbs. of anything in a 5 gallon batch and 1.035 as your OG should be sounding some alarm bells. I'm not saying this won't ferment or there's no sugar to ferment, but that it's going to taste awful when it does.

So there are two pieces of advice you can take with you after this brew. The first is Revvy's set of comments about how to really tell if things are fermenting. The second is, if that really did have 100% crystal malt in it, that's way too much.
 
It's pretty simple, you underpitched without a starter. The yeast had to work harder to get started than they otherwise would have. This results in long lag times. It would likely have fermented without any extra yeast. As Revvy said, it isn't even 72 hours yet...that's the point where you take a sample and if no fermentation has occured you add more.
 
I see two problems. One is if your grainbill is really 12 pounds of crystal malt, you have no beer. Two, you probably underpitched by not making a starter- however, if it bubbled at all for a day or two, it's fully fermented. Fermentation itself is pretty quick, especially if the wort is warm when the yeast is pitched.
 
On Saturday I brewed an APA. It was an all grain recipe. I used 12 lbs. of Caramel/Crystal malt-40L. and did a two stage sparge resulting in a 5 gallon batch. For the yeast I used Wyeast 1056.

Are you sure the entire grain bill was Crystal 40? Was the wort jet black?

Can you tell us the full recipe (type & quantity of hops) and your process, etc.
 
I asked about the OG. But you are right. Need to verify with a new reading. I wasn't even going to talk about the Grain bill, but you are all right. There is no base. The "Beer" has no soul. Crystal 4o along with all of the crystal malts should be used to increase body and head retention. Some flavor and color. No more that about 15% should be used in a batch.

Go with about 14Lbs. 2 row and 1 to 2 Lbs. Crystal with 1 to 2 oz of Columbus hops @45 min Nice simple ale!!!
 
Well I guess I have mud on my face and probably an awful first all grain batch. The grain bill was my idea. I based it on a partial grain APA I did a few years ago. In that brew I used 2 lbs of Crystal 40L that I steeped before adding DME as the base. I figured that more of a good thing was even better! So, tonight I pulled out "How to Brew" by Palmer. As I read about grains I got that horrible sinking feeling in my gut when I read that Crystal malts have a small amount of fermentable sugars and that they only make up a small percentage of the entire grain bill. So I guess 12 lbs for 5 gallons was not so good. And yes, the first runnings out of the mashtun were jet black.

Thank you for everyone's input. I guess that at the very least I got to test my rig; all be it an expensive test. :(
 
mjatrucker said:
Well I guess I have mud on my face and probably an awful first all grain batch. The grain bill was my idea. I based it on a partial grain APA I did a few years ago. In that brew I used 2 lbs of Crystal 40L that I steeped before adding DME as the base. I figured that more of a good thing was even better! :(

You are not alone. I did something similar when I switched from extact to all grain a few years back. From memory I still drank it all.
 
I'll second the last two posts, every brewer has a "one time I..." story.

Brewing on a new rig coupled with recipe creation puts a lot of variables at play. There are tons of proven AG recipes here on HBT and plenty of great AG kits available at local & online homebrew shops; it might be worthwhile to dial in your new brew setup with a tested recipe to smooth that transition to all-grain brewing.

Cheers
 
Well I guess I have mud on my face and probably an awful first all grain batch. The grain bill was my idea. I based it on a partial grain APA I did a few years ago. In that brew I used 2 lbs of Crystal 40L that I steeped before adding DME as the base. I figured that more of a good thing was even better! So, tonight I pulled out "How to Brew" by Palmer. As I read about grains I got that horrible sinking feeling in my gut when I read that Crystal malts have a small amount of fermentable sugars and that they only make up a small percentage of the entire grain bill. So I guess 12 lbs for 5 gallons was not so good. And yes, the first runnings out of the mashtun were jet black.

Thank you for everyone's input. I guess that at the very least I got to test my rig; all be it an expensive test. :(

Heh, it's okay man, you live and learn. My first brew kinda sucked. Now you know!

People make worse mistakes, like marrying some moron you met at Basic Training and then getting her knocked up and divorced and being a 22 year old divorcee with a kid to support.

No, not my own story, but I see it far too often!
 
I am curious too. Go through with the whole process and let us know what it tastes like. When I was a noob I thought of doing this lol...never got around to it. Sounds like you will have solved the mystery for me after all!
 
Agreed, I will see this syrupy brew through to the end and for my penance, I will give a testimonial here as to how it turned out.
 
Well, I let this mess ferment....oh it was BAD. Couldn't bring myself to do more than sip this. Sorry, no video. Trust me it would have been ugly! On a high note, just racked an IPA into secondary fermenter that was. Reese with 10 lbs of Pale Malt and 2 lbs of Crystal 40. This is MUCH better! Thanks for the help everyone.
 
Well, I let this mess ferment....oh it was BAD. Couldn't bring myself to do more than sip this. Sorry, no video. Trust me it would have been ugly! On a high note, just racked an IPA into secondary fermenter that was. Reese with 10 lbs of Pale Malt and 2 lbs of Crystal 40. This is MUCH better! Thanks for the help everyone.

What was the FG of the all crystal beer? Everyone has one **** up batch. Mine taught me the lesson of using spices in small amounts.
 
The good news is that in the future, every brew will be better than that first one and you learned the first cardinal rule of brewing: less is very often more :D

Might I also suggest brewing proven recipes ?
 

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