Priming sugar calculator for certain styles CO2 volumes.

Hi All. Quick question here - I see the recommended CO2 volumes for German Hefeweizen to be 3.6 - 4.5. When I put 4.0 that into the carbonation calculator it comes out as being a total of 8.8 ounces of priming sugar over the usual 3/4 cup (5.3oz). Just wanted to check in and make sure that's correct, wouldn't want to overdo it and create bottle bombs. Also, is 4.0 indeed a good CO2 volume recommendation for a German Hefeweizen? I'm looking for about the same carbonation in Franziskaner and other popular german weizens.


Rev.

That is correct. Bottle bombs would be the product of unfermented sugars in the beer. If you are using that high a carbonation, you want to be certain your beer has reached its FG without any changes in several days.

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't bottle without being sure the fermentation has stopped in the primary. I was thinking I'd take a gravity reading on day 10 or 11 then on day 14. If they're the same then I'll go ahead and bottle. I don't really want to leave the hefe in the primary much more than 2 weeks being I've read a lot of people say they're better younger than older. Is this ok thinking?


Rev.

Sounds sound to me. Although I'm sure it would be fine left for longer, even a few weeks (which could be the case). I would give your carboy or bucket a little heat boost just to be sure those yeast are being active. And if it ends up dropping in those three days after checking, don't rush it.

Maybe I am reading the OP wrong. Are you asking if you should add 8.8 oz to the 5.3 oz for a total of 14.1? 8.8 oz is the TOTAL amount of sugar for five gallons.

WhiskeySix said:

Maybe I am reading the OP wrong. Are you asking if you should add 8.8 oz to the 5.3 oz for a total of 14.1? 8.8 oz is the TOTAL amount of sugar for five gallons.

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Heh, no I wasn't meaning to add 8.8 to 5.3. I was asking if 8.8oz total priming sugar would be correct for a 5 gallon batch at 4.0 volumes.

So many of the hefeweizen recipes I see for sale online (Midwest, NorthernBrewer) just say in the instructions to use 5oz priming sugar. Why wouldn't they match the style guidelines?


Rev.

Ah, gotcha. Yes 8.8 is about right. I came up with 8.42 for 5 gallons at 68*. You have a good point. It's probably a good idea to determine style guidelines and order extra sugar or DME as needed. Maybe it's because the sugar comes in convenient 5 oz bags. Easier for the stores. I never just dump in the whole 5 oz. I always use a calculator.

Geez! That sounds like bottle bombs waiting to happen!

Sure, hefeweizens can be more highly carbed, but that amount, double the amount I'd normally use, sounds nuts!

What the heck calculator are you guys using? Whatever it is, stop! Think for a minute. That doesn't seem safe at all. Have you ever had a beer carbed to 4.5 volumes? That sounds like champagne! Not hefeweizen.

Use 5 ounces (by weight). That will give you 2.9-3.0 volumes, more or less. That is fine. And won't produce bottle bombs.

Yooper said:

Geez! That sounds like bottle bombs waiting to happen!

Sure, hefeweizens can be more highly carbed, but that amount, double the amount I'd normally use, sounds nuts!

What the heck calculator are you guys using? Whatever it is, stop! Think for a minute. That doesn't seem safe at all. Have you ever had a beer carbed to 4.5 volumes? That sounds like champagne! Not hefeweizen.

Use 5 ounces (by weight). That will give you 2.9-3.0 volumes, more or less. That is fine. And won't produce bottle bombs.

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I used the Beer Recipator carb calculator. No Hefe but a Dunkelweizen on there calls for 3.6 to 4.5. Using 4.0 is 8.42 oz. Hmmm? Beersmith says 2.5 to 2.9 for a Dunkel. BIG difference! What's a guy to do?
http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html?9467935#tag

WhiskeySix said:

I used the Beer Recipator carb calculator. No Hefe but a Dunkelweizen on there calls for 3.6 to 4.5. Using 4.0 is 8.42 oz. Hmmm? Beersmith says 2.5 to 2.9 for a Dunkel. BIG difference! What's a guy to do?
http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html?9467935#tag

Click to expand...

I dunno- but I know that you have to use some sense as well. Seriously? 4.0 volumes? Are you drinking champagne or beer? (and remember what happens when you open a bottle of champagne!).

4.0 volumes is crazy!

Yooper said:

I dunno- but I know that you have to use some sense as well. Seriously? 4.0 volumes? Are you drinking champagne or beer? (and remember what happens when you open a bottle of champagne!).

4.0 volumes is crazy!

Click to expand...

I see your point. I think I'll stick with Beersmith.

What temperature is the fermenter is at? That makes a big difference.

http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html


I agree 4 volumes is a HUGE amount of carbonation. I carb my Saisons to about 3 volumes usually and even that is pretty effervescent.

It's accurate, assuming he is doing a very light hef. He's also doing the maximum of that style.

Edit: The highest I've done was a rye with 7oz corn sugar. It turned out fine, although probably too carbonated for the style. The only thing I can stress is that there are not sugars left over from the fermentation in it.

@Yooper - this is exactly why I posted asking, it's nearly double the usual priming sugar so I was wondering if it is right or wrong. I guess my next question is why do the carbonation calc apps list the volumes for something like Hefe at 3.6 - 4.5?


Rev.

Pretty sure those volumes come from Charlie Papazian's Complete Joy of Homebrewing book. I believe he lists German Weizen and Dunkelweizen at 3.6 - 4.5 and German Weizenbock at 3.7 - 4.8.

I don't have Beersmith so can't speak to what it listed there. If anyone is able to list their carb to style guidelines I'd love to see them. I'm about to post a pretty extensive update to my brew chart and used Papazian's recommendations for my bottle priming tab. If Beersmith looks more accurate to most I'd use their figures instead. Anyone able to do so?

I imagine there are several reasons. One might be that it balances the hefe's malty sweetness. I can also imagine it has to do with sustaining that frothy, creamy head created by the wheat. Though mostly it probably has to due with tradition. Let me add that such a carbonated beer will have to be poured incredibly slowly so that it does not foam up too much. Also, a narrow hefe glass helps a lot with the over-foaming. If you want a well-carbonated beer and not something you have to fuss with or worry about exploding in the bottles, go with 5 or 6ozs of corn sugar.

I recently posted about the same disparity between the available calculators.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/carbonation-219197/

The recommendation I received was to follow BeerSmith.

From Beersmith;

Dunkelweizen 2.5 - 2.9 vols

Weizen 2.5 - 2.9 vols

Weizenbock 2.4 - 2.9 vols

Thanks Mark.

Any chance there is an easy way for you to copy the whole list and post it? If not, don't worry about it.

In my bottle priming calculator I have the styles listed as:

American Pale Ale 2.2 - 2.8 Am. Light Lager 2.5 - 2.7
India Pale Ale 1.5 - 2.5 Am. Standar Lager 2.5 - 2.7
English Pale Ale 1.5 - 2.3 Am. Premium Lager 2.5 - 2.8
Ordinary Bitter .75 - 1.5 German Pils 2.4 - 2.6
Special Bitter .75 - 1.5 Bohemian Pils 2.3 - 2.5
Extra Special Bitter .75 - 1.5 German Dark Bock 2.2 - 2.7
Dry Stout 1.6 - 2.0 Helles Bock 2.1 - 2.8
Foreign Stout 2.3 - 2.6 Doppelbock 2.2 - 2.7
Sweet Stout 2.0 - 2.4 Eisbock 2.3 - 2.5
Imperial Stout 1.5 - 2.3 Munich Dunkel 2.2 - 2.7
Amber Ale 2.2 - 2.8 Schwarzbier 2.2 - 2.6
Cream Ale 2.2 - 2.8 American Dark 2.5 - 2.7
Blonde Ale 2.2 - 2.8 Dortmund/Export 2.5 - 2.7
Brown Porter 1.7 - 2.5 Munich Helles 2.2 - 2.7
Robust Porter 1.8 - 2.5 Vienna 2.4 - 2.6
Baltic Porter 1.8 - 2.5 Oktoberfest/Marzen 2.5 - 2.8
Scottish Light .75 - 1.5 Barley Wine 1.3 - 2.3
Scottish Heavy .75 - 1.5 Flanders Brown 1.9 - 2.5
Scottish Export .75 - 1.5 Belgian Dubbel 1.9 - 2.4
Strong Scotch Ale 1.5 - 2.3 Belgian Trippel 1.9 - 2.4
Old/Strong Ale 1.5 - 2.3 Belgian Ale 1.9 - 2.5
English Mild 1.3 - 2.0 Belgian Strong Ale 1.9 - 2.4
American Brown 1.5 - 2.5 Belgian White 2.1 - 2.6
English Brown 1.5 - 2.3 Belgian Lambic 2.6 - 4.5
Altbier 2.1 - 3.1 Fruit Beer 2.5 - 3.3
Kolsch 2.4 - 2.8 Berliner Weisse 3.3 - 3.6
California Common 2.4 - 2.8 German Weizen 3.6 - 4.5
Rauchbier 2.1 - 2.6 Ger. Dunkelweizen 3.6 - 4.5
American Wheat 2.3 - 2.6 Ger. Weizenbock 3.7 - 4.8

No way to copy from Beersmith. The guidelines are from BJCP 2008. The guidelines don't list CO2 vols just a description.

For example. Weizen - Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium body; never heavy. Suspended yeast may increase the perception of body. The texture of wheat imparts the sensation of a fluffy, creamy fullness that may progress to a light, spritzy finish aided by high carbonation. Always effervescent.

Dunkelweizen - Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium-full body. The texture of wheat as well as yeast in suspension imparts the sensation of a fluffy, creamy fullness that may progress to a lighter finish, aided by moderate to high carbonation. The presence of Munich and/or Vienna malts also provide an additional sense of richness and fullness. Effervescent.

Weizenbock - Mouthfeel: Medium-full to full body. A creamy sensation is typical, as is the warming sensation of substantial alcohol content. The presence of Munich and/or Vienna malts also provide an additional sense of richness and fullness. Moderate to high carbonation. Never hot or solventy.

http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style15.php#1a

Yep, I've got the guidelines as well. Too bad they don't list actual carbonation levels.

Just wanted to see what Beersmith listed for recommended carbonation levels if it was easy to copy and paste. No worries.

Thanks.

cp

BeerSmith has a trial version if you'd like to check them out for yourself.

Here is a copy/paste of the styles:

http://pastebin.com/vFKDMBPS

Downloaded the trial and running it under Ubuntu Linux. Wow, what a program! I'm definitely buying this one. I was beginning to fret at not yet knowing all the calculations and such. I am halfway through Palmer's book and it does give a lot of that info but of course along with learning everything else it can't all possibly stick freshly in my mind. It will be so much nicer to have all this under one "roof" so to speak.

I also learned that in my attempt to lower the hoppiness of my Amber Ale kit from NB I did good with the hop replacements and quantities but since the pot I was boiling in couldn't fit the full 2.5 gallon boil I under utilized the hops. Oh well, lol... should still be ok I think. Now I know for sure I absolutely need a real brew pot! At least plugging in my Hefe shows it's all perfectly within the style guidelines


Rev.

I used to carbonate pyramid hefeweizen to 2.55 volumes. That was at 33 degrees and tested with a zahm and nagel SS-60 tester. At no point would ANYTHING that left the bottle shop get carbonated to over 2.70 because you could not keep it in the bottle. I view with great distrust anything that recommends a 3.00 or higher CO2 saturation level.

I also have a similar problem. I just bottled a Bavarian Wheat for 3.6 CO2. I just learned that my 12 oz. Pry-off bottles aren't able to hold anything more then 3.0 CO2.

So now after about a week in a 66°F priming closet, I have to decide if I am going to pry off 48 caps to release the pressure and recap again...

Or roll the dice, place the 12 packs into plastic garbage bags, and into a second cardboard container with more plastic and when the time is ready, handle each bottle like a hand grenade.

damn it.

Since it's said that the typical pop-top bottles can't safely hold more than 3-3.5 Vco2, I primed my Bavarian watermelon hefe to 2.8 Vci2. It foamed in the glass very easily & carbonation was like a roiling, boiling storm.