Closed-system pressurized fermentation technique!

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What do you guys think about pressure fermentations? Time for a poll.

  • I've done it and I liked it just fine!

  • I've done it, nothing wrong with it, but prefer normal fermentation techniques.

  • I've done it, hate it, and never will do it again!

  • I've never done it, but it is on my list!

  • I've never done anything. I only brew beer in my mind.

Results are only viewable after voting.
I have a second IPA in the can fermenting from last Fridays brew day. I have the STC 1000+ running an ale profile and the spunding valve set to 7psi.

I learned my lesson about straining hops though, jammed the pickup tube full of hops and can't pull a sample. I'll let it finish the profile and pull the tube after cold crashing, give it more radius and see if I can't keep it clear enough to transfer the beer to a serving keg.

I am planning on filtering this beer though, is going to the state fair so it has to be clear.
 
A bit of gelatin finings and a decent cold crash will provide beer just as clear as if you filtered.
 
Since I have been doing my full carbonation while cold crashing (using store co2 from the ferment) I have had to wait for a couple weeks to clear. This last beer with more hops is not completely clear even three weeks later.

I stopped using gelatine when my beers seemed to clear with crashing alone. It does seem that the carbonating is interfering with the clearing.

I might have to either delay connection of the stored co2 for a week or add gelatine after crashing.

Don't mind drinking it myself but would like to have clear beer to share.

Tom
 
Gelatin isn't an option for me, I have a vegan kid (I know, I know) and that's not going to work. I also have to provide clear beer and can't take the chance of sediment or cloudy beer.

The pressurized system sure has made for a clean and minimalistic brewing setup though. Single pot BIAB, dunk sparge, pressurized fermentation... Clean and fast.
 
Vegans eat jello all the time. No one knows that stuff is made of ground up cows.
 
The only down side is cleaning the fermentation vessel. I use Sanke kegs (they have a very narrow bung), so it's difficult. Looks like from the link you are going to use Corny kegs? Those are a lot easier to clean, but difficult to seal since pressure is needed to make a good seal. Typically the poor initial seal lets all the gas escape before a good seal is made.
BTW, I use a pressure washer with a 90 deg. tip to clean my vessels. Works great if you have access to a pressure washer.
 
acidrain said:
The only down side is cleaning the fermentation vessel. I use Sanke kegs (they have a very narrow bung), so it's difficult. Looks like from the link you are going to use Corny kegs? Those are a lot easier to clean, but difficult to seal since pressure is needed to make a good seal. Typically the poor initial seal lets all the gas escape before a good seal is made.
BTW, I use a pressure washer with a 90 deg. tip to clean my vessels. Works great if you have access to a pressure washer.
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Yes I have Cornies and they're a dream to clean. I can get my arm almost in all the way. Do you mean that the initial pressure from fermentation isn't enough to seal the gaskets?
If so what tips are there to help it seal?
 
You can also do the keg lube thing. But instead of doing 5 lbs, you pump it up to 10-15. Once a seal is established you can de-pressurize the corney and it should retain a good seal at the lower psi later. I have some real crappy kegs I got on purpose that were labeled bad when I bought them. I knew I could either fix them or turn them into something. I have one that's nearly perfect but the lid lip is deformed and this is the only way I can get it to seal reliably.
 
wbarber69 said:
You can also do the keg lube thing. But instead of doing 5 lbs, you pump it up to 10-15. Once a seal is established you can de-pressurize the corney and it should retain a good seal at the lower psi later. I have some real crappy kegs I got on purpose that were labeled bad when I bought them. I knew I could either fix them or turn them into something. I have one that's nearly perfect but the lid lip is deformed and this is the only way I can get it to seal reliably.
Click to expand...

All of my corny kegs are very used and need 10-15 psi to seal. I found that sealing at this pressure then dropping to 3-5 worked, but doing so seamed to compromise the health of the yeast as fermentation was slow and resulted in a higher than expected final gravity. Since then I only use sanke kegs for fermentation and I'm back to faster finishing fermentation and lower FG's.
 
I was referring to a keg you were using for blowoff. But since we're on the subject. Basically you would have to transfer into the bad keg from another keg. Or you'd have to pump straight into the keg inlet, which isn't recommended because of the diameter of the fittings. I only use my bad kegs as blowoff or secondary/serving vessels.
 
Thanks for the tips. Another question:
I only have a couple of kegs so will it be ok to transfer to the keg as a secondary post high krausen and serve from the same keg? Or will there be too much yeast deposit?


Sent from hell
using Home Brew
 
beerkench said:
Thanks for the tips. Another question:
I only have a couple of kegs so will it be ok to transfer to the keg as a secondary post high krausen and serve from the same keg? Or will there be too much yeast deposit?


Sent from hell
using Home Brew
Click to expand...


Sometimes I filter and that's how I do it. When the primary is done I let it sit and crash for a couple days then I filter to the second keg to carb up and clear out further. Then I serve from the same keg.
 
wbarber69 said:
Sometimes I filter and that's how I do it. When the primary is done I let it sit and crash for a couple days then I filter to the second keg to carb up and clear out further. Then I serve from the same keg.
Click to expand...


Sorry I didn't explain my intention too clearly. Due to my lack of kegs, I want to primary in a normal plastic fv and then transfer to the serving keg at the back end of fermentation to carbonate. I'm wondering though if this will leave too much yeast deposit in the serving keg?


Sent from hell
using Home Brew
 
beerkench said:
Sorry I didn't explain my intention too clearly. Due to my lack of kegs, I want to primary in a normal plastic fv and then transfer to the serving keg at the back end of fermentation to carbonate. I'm wondering though if this will leave too much yeast deposit in the serving keg?


Sent from hell
using Home Brew
Click to expand...

Anyone tried this way?



Sent from hell
using Home Brew
 
As long as you don't intend to be serving out the back of a moving truck. The yeast will settle at the bottom and you'll be good to go.
 
homebeerbrewer said:
I was wondering how I'd dry hop using this technique. Well, here's an idea: Jack's Abby Brewing: Spunding and Slurming Updates
Click to expand...

The method you linked to doesn't seem very applicable or necessary for the home brew scale of brewing.

My method goes as follows. After primary fermentation is done I place my dry hops in a second keg that has a screen on the dip tube to filter out the hops later on. I seal the keg with the hops in it and purge it with CO2. Then I transfer the beer under pressure (fully Carbonated at 30psi) from primary to dry hopping keg. Let sit for a week or so to dry hop then transfer to another keg to cold crash and then serve out of.
 
beerkench said:
Is there risk of autolysis affecting flavour?


Sent from hell
using Home Brew
Click to expand...


Of course. If the yeast is still present there will be some activity even at lower temps. I guess it depends on how long it takes to kick a keg. But unless you use gelatin. Then filter and finally pasteurize your beer, you're always going to have some yeast in there. In my opinion, or should I say in my past experiences, I've actually seen some of my beers get better with time while sitting in the keg.
 
crane said:
+1. After fermentation begins the refractometer never agrees with the hydrometer reading. It's close but not reliable. I built an air lock from a water filter housing and cutoff part of a sanke dip tube. Being able to watch the bubbling allows me to gauge where the fermentation is at so I usually only take one sample before cold crashing to make sure I'm at or below the final gravity I'm expecting.
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Crane, where did you get that filter housing, and how did you attach the spear to the center? And also, you have MFL fittings on it, what size is the pipe thread for them?
 
homebeerbrewer said:
Crane, where did you get that filter housing, and how did you attach the spear to the center? And also, you have MFL fittings on it, what size is the pipe thread for them?
Click to expand...


I can't speak for him but I think I got my filter from Midwest or Austin homebrew supply. It was a while back. The filter housings I see in the big box store are slightly different from this model now a days. What was nice about getting it from a brew supply is it came with barbs for beer line (I think they also sold a more expensive model with the mfl connectors). I bought mine originally as a transfer filter. It looks like he just cut down a spear and shoved it in the hole.
 
homebeerbrewer said:
Crane, where did you get that filter housing, and how did you attach the spear to the center? And also, you have MFL fittings on it, what size is the pipe thread for them?
Click to expand...

The filter_housing can be bought on amazon.

The MFL_fittings are from McMaster.

Yes I paid more for the flare fittings than I did for the filter housing. Still comes out cheaper than the filter Midwest supplies is selling (not to mention the fact that midwest screwed up the last 3 orders I placed with them so I am boycotting them from now on). I have a number of hoses for transfers, fermenting, etc. so having everything be a flare fitting is convenient for reuse of hoses.

The spear is cut down from a keg that I cut the top off for a boil kettle. I cut the spear down with a pipe cutter, which turned out to help make a good seal. The spear slides over the center part of the top that holds the filters in place. The uncut end was snug and fit well, but wasn't air tight. The first time I used it no bubbles were pushed through the water. The other end was curved in from the pipe cutter, so I used some needle nose pliers to widen it a bit and then I was able to barely fit it over the end of the center part of the top. A couple of persuasive taps with a hammer and it was bottomed out and was air tight. It works great as a pressure air lock. It saved my spunding valve on one fermentation as I had 6 gallons in a 7.5 gallon sanke and forgot to put fermcap in. A few inches of blow off made it into the airlock that time. I generally use fermcap and that does a good job of keeping the krausen from leaving the keg. I'll post a picture of it in action when I get a chance.

I have also removed the spear to use the filter housing for filtering beer and the spear is still air tight after reinstalling it. I'm sure if I remove and replace it continuously, it will eventually fail to be air tight. When that time comes I will just pay another $16 for a new filter housing.
 
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crane said:
The filter_housing can be bought on amazon.

The MFL_fittings are from McMaster.

Yes I paid more for the flare fittings than I did for the filter housing. Still comes out cheaper than the filter Midwest supplies is selling (not to mention the fact that midwest screwed up the last 3 orders I placed with them so I am boycotting them from now on). I have a number of hoses for transfers, fermenting, etc. so having everything be a flare fitting is convenient for reuse of hoses.

The spear is cut down from a keg that I cut the top off for a boil kettle. I cut the spear down with a pipe cutter, which turned out to help make a good seal. The spear slides over the center part of the top that holds the filters in place. The uncut end was snug and fit well, but wasn't air tight. The first time I used it no bubbles were pushed through the water. The other end was curved in from the pipe cutter, so I used some needle nose pliers to widen it a bit and then I was able to barely fit it over the end of the center part of the top. A couple of persuasive taps with a hammer and it was bottomed out and was air tight. It works great as a pressure air lock. It saved my spunding valve on one fermentation as I had 6 gallons in a 7.5 gallon sanke and forgot to put fermcap in. A few inches of blow off made it into the airlock that time. I generally use fermcap and that does a good job of keeping the krausen from leaving the keg. I'll post a picture of it in action when I get a chance.

I have also removed the spear to use the filter housing for filtering beer and the spear is still air tight after reinstalling it. I'm sure if I remove and replace it continuously, it will eventually fail to be air tight. When that time comes I will just pay another $16 for a new filter housing.
Click to expand...

Why do you need the spear for pressure fermenting?
 
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If you don't mind using Fermcap you can fill almost all the way to the top and still not have any blowoff. (At least in my experience with moderate brews)

Tom
 
Tegra said:
If you don't mind using Fermcap you can fill almost all the way to the top and still not have any blowoff. (At least in my experience with moderate brews)

Tom
Click to expand...

I totally agree, but it is an extra piece of insurance. I did forget the fermcap one time and this saved me from having to buy another PRV.
 
crane said:
The filter_housing can be bought on amazon.



The MFL_fittings are from McMaster.



Yes I paid more for the flare fittings than I did for the filter housing. Still comes out cheaper than the filter Midwest supplies is selling (not to mention the fact that midwest screwed up the last 3 orders I placed with them so I am boycotting them from now on). I have a number of hoses for transfers, fermenting, etc. so having everything be a flare fitting is convenient for reuse of hoses.



The spear is cut down from a keg that I cut the top off for a boil kettle. I cut the spear down with a pipe cutter, which turned out to help make a good seal. The spear slides over the center part of the top that holds the filters in place. The uncut end was snug and fit well, but wasn't air tight. The first time I used it no bubbles were pushed through the water. The other end was curved in from the pipe cutter, so I used some needle nose pliers to widen it a bit and then I was able to barely fit it over the end of the center part of the top. A couple of persuasive taps with a hammer and it was bottomed out and was air tight. It works great as a pressure air lock. It saved my spunding valve on one fermentation as I had 6 gallons in a 7.5 gallon sanke and forgot to put fermcap in. A few inches of blow off made it into the airlock that time. I generally use fermcap and that does a good job of keeping the krausen from leaving the keg. I'll post a picture of it in action when I get a chance.



I have also removed the spear to use the filter housing for filtering beer and the spear is still air tight after reinstalling it. I'm sure if I remove and replace it continuously, it will eventually fail to be air tight. When that time comes I will just pay another $16 for a new filter housing.
Click to expand...
I wasn't advocating that anyone buy from Midwest. Just noting that the filter housing model needed was no longer available for purchase off the shelf in any of the places that used to carry them. Till you posted this link to Amazon I haven't seen anywhere else to buy them other than homebrew supplies.
 
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So just wanted to say a big thank you to Mad Scientist and WortMonger and everyone else on this thread! I have my first ferment underway (which is actually my first batch in over 5 years) in two 5 gal corny's using the spunding valve from the original post.

I am following MS's pressure schedule from a bunch of posts back with a few changes due to technical difficulties getting the kegs to seal up front (i unfortunately didn't see the posts about keg lube and seal until Day2):

Day 1 (0 - 24 hours) - 0 PSI @ 72 F
Day 2 (24 -26 hours) 4 PSI
Day 2 (26 -27 hours) 5 PSI
(turned knob 3 times)
Day 2 (27 - 42 hours) 9 PSI
(turned down til 7 PSI)
Day 2 (42+) 7 PSI

Future plan
Day 3 - 7 PSI
Day 4 - 7 PSI
Day 5 - 7 PSI
Day 6 - 7 PSI
Check Gravity, if over 60% finished begin raising the pressure)
Day 7 - 12 PSI
Day 7 - 16 PSI
Day 8 - 20 PSI
Check Gravity, if over 80% finished, remove the spunding valve to being carb)
Day 10 - check pressure to release to around 20/25 PSI
check Gravity and once over 90% start crash chill

two main differences (that I planned at least) is that I am fermenting at the top temp limit for my yeast (72/73 F). From what I have read on this thread it seems the higher pressure is supposed to forgive for a higher temp (though I couldn't find an example that tried higher than normal temps on an ale) and since I didn't have my fermenting chamber up and running yet though this would be a good chance to test that.

The other difference is my finish cold crash, I think others have gotten away with only doing a few days (I have seen some talking about grain to glass in 14 days so only a day or so of cold crash). What is everyone's experience here?

If I get within 80% completion of primary by Day 8 how long should leave the fermenter "capped" before cold crash? should I wait until around 90% done before cold crash?

And then once I am cold crashing how long before counter pressure transfer to the serving keg? Is 1-2 days enough to allow for clearing or should I go longer?

Once again thanks and will keep everyone posted!
 
jonofthedead said:
So just wanted to say a big thank you to Mad Scientist and WortMonger and everyone else on this thread! I have my first ferment underway (which is actually my first batch in over 5 years) in two 5 gal corny's using the spunding valve from the original post.

I am following MS's pressure schedule from a bunch of posts back with a few changes due to technical difficulties getting the kegs to seal up front (i unfortunately didn't see the posts about keg lube and seal until Day2):

Day 1 (0 - 24 hours) - 0 PSI @ 72 F
Day 2 (24 -26 hours) 4 PSI
Day 2 (26 -27 hours) 5 PSI
(turned knob 3 times)
Day 2 (27 - 42 hours) 9 PSI
(turned down til 7 PSI)
Day 2 (42+) 7 PSI

Future plan
Day 3 - 7 PSI
Day 4 - 7 PSI
Day 5 - 7 PSI
Day 6 - 7 PSI
Check Gravity, if over 60% finished begin raising the pressure)
Day 7 - 12 PSI
Day 7 - 16 PSI
Day 8 - 20 PSI
Check Gravity, if over 80% finished, remove the spunding valve to being carb)
Day 10 - check pressure to release to around 20/25 PSI
check Gravity and once over 90% start crash chill

two main differences (that I planned at least) is that I am fermenting at the top temp limit for my yeast (72/73 F). From what I have read on this thread it seems the higher pressure is supposed to forgive for a higher temp (though I couldn't find an example that tried higher than normal temps on an ale) and since I didn't have my fermenting chamber up and running yet though this would be a good chance to test that.

The other difference is my finish cold crash, I think others have gotten away with only doing a few days (I have seen some talking about grain to glass in 14 days so only a day or so of cold crash). What is everyone's experience here?

If I get within 80% completion of primary by Day 8 how long should leave the fermenter "capped" before cold crash? should I wait until around 90% done before cold crash?

And then once I am cold crashing how long before counter pressure transfer to the serving keg? Is 1-2 days enough to allow for clearing or should I go longer?

Once again thanks and will keep everyone posted!
Click to expand...

Here is my general schedule, but by no means is it "the way to go". I use big yeast starters a d oxygenate the wort so fermentation is usually mostly done within 3 to 4 days of pitching yeast. I start out at 3-7psi for the first 24 hours. Then bump up to 10-12 for the next 24. On day 3 depending on how many bubbles are passing through my water filter airlock, I will either bump up to 15psi for another day or go straight to 30psi.

I then let it sit for the remainder of the week until day 7, then I cold crash for a week. On day 14 I transfer to the serving kegs and start to enjoy.

If I do any dry hopping, that happens at day 7. I usually dry hop for 7 days, then cold crash.

If I am brewing a beer that will be served on nitro the max and final pressure is 8psi, so after the first 24 hours I set it to 8 and keep it there for the rest of the fermentation.

For your schedule you may be waiting too long to ramp up for final carbonation, but it depends on how big and how healthy your army of yeast is.
 
crane said:
For your schedule you may be waiting too long to ramp up for final carbonation, but it depends on how big and how healthy your army of yeast is.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my beer is just an american pale ale, OG was 1.06 final should be around 1.014 according to brewers friend. I am using BRY-97 for the yeast pitched dry (under recommendation from my LHBS). It has been a while since I have used a dry yeast so maybe I should ramp it up and start pushing the pressure on Day 3-4?

in any case I will be checking the hydro reading tonight!
 
I usually use Nottingham and it can finish quite fast especially with a lower gravity beer. After a few days the show can be over.

As soon as the fermentation begins in earnest I turn up the pressure every few hours to get to the max pressure (about 25) fairly quickly so I can "store" the co2 in the side kegs for later carbonating.

Last Centennial Blonde, I was a bit late and didn't collect enough so had to draw from the tank.

Tom
 
Yup so Crane you were definitely right for my case, checked the hydro reading last night and I am already at 1.02 (FG should be 1.015), man that was fast!

I turned up my spunding valve to 10 PSI last night and again gave it a few turns this morning in hopes to getting to at least 15 (but really would like to make it to 20). Tonight I will pull the valve off and then let it go for a couple of days, check the reading again and then hopefully we will be cold crashing by the weekend!
 

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