WLP644 -Brett B Trois

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barrooze said:
Please keep us updated! I'm planning on brewing that farmhouse recipe after I brew the Belgian White recipe (preparation for the next BBBB!). I didn't get my hands on the Trois but will brew them both with a combo of Brux and Lamb.
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Sure can. I was planning on rinsing the yeast and using it for other projects. I'd be more than happy to share some of it with you if you'd like. Just my two cents: like others said earlier in the post...it needs to be propped up. I was amazed at how little yeast was in the vial from WL. I propped mine up over two weeks and had a fast and vigorous fermentation.
 
I also made the brett farmhouse ale. Well I basically followed the grist but left out the spicing and used my own hops. So basically I took the advice of using body building high protein grains and made it lower gravity, I guess didn't make the beer haha. Anyway it's been a couple weeks. I'll hopefully crash it this weekend. I may rack six gallons of the eight into a carboy and rack the remaining beer into my sour saison portion. I will hopefully bottle in a few weeks with the trois portion though.
 
With my recent batch of Spelt Saison, I wanted to test this temperature dependence. I split the main batch wort into 2 - 1 gal batches. One batch was fermented with a normal Saison temperature profile (start in the low 70s and free rise into the 80s and held for a week). The other batch was temperature controlled in the fermentation cabinet at 63-65 for 2 weeks and then brought up to mid 70s. The fermentation looked complete after 2 weeks.

Results:
Saison Profile - 1.000 - nice spicy notes, Belgian phenols and light fruit notes
Low Ale Temps - 1.000 - nice spicy notes, Belgian phenols and light fruit notes

I was surprised by the results, both were 100% Apparent Attenuation and 7.9% ABV. These both were allowed to ferment out for a total of 3 weeks before bottling. I'll do an official taste test in the following weeks.

Also, I have a Dark Saison recipe I'm working on, that a portion will get Brett Drie. I'm going to try to test this yeast and get up in the 11% ABV range. What are the limits people have tried so far?

Also I decided to summarize my experience with this yeast in a lengthy post on my blog:
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2012/09/brett-drie-trois-overview-spelt-saison.html
 
Almighty said:
With my recent batch of Spelt Saison, I wanted to test this temperature dependence. I split the main batch wort into 2 - 1 gal batches. One batch was fermented with a normal Saison temperature profile (start in the low 70s and free rise into the 80s and held for a week). The other batch was temperature controlled in the fermentation cabinet at 63-65 for 2 weeks and then brought up to mid 70s. The fermentation looked complete after 2 weeks.

Results:
Saison Profile - 1.000 - nice spicy notes, Belgian phenols and light fruit notes
Low Ale Temps - 1.000 - nice spicy notes, Belgian phenols and light fruit notes

I was surprised by the results, both were 100% Apparent Attenuation and 7.9% ABV. These both were allowed to ferment out for a total of 3 weeks before bottling. I'll do an official taste test in the following weeks.

Also, I have a Dark Saison recipe I'm working on, that a portion will get Brett Drie. I'm going to try to test this yeast and get up in the 11% ABV range. What are the limits people have tried so far?

Also I decided to summarize my experience with this yeast in a lengthy post on my blog:
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2012/09/brett-drie-trois-overview-spelt-saison.html
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I'm interested in hearing what the upper limit of this yeast is as well. It would seem that with enough healthy yeast and ideal circumstances, it should be fairly alcohol tolerant. I made a belgian stout that finished WAY too high: from 1.088 to 1.026. I took 1gal of it and pitched the trois. It's moving slowly, but after 2 weeks it's down to 1.020 and very fruity. Next in line I have a brett brux trois porter (same one from the Zymurgy magazine). That should begin at a 1.080. The plan is to go 100% fermentation with the trois on that one as well.
 
I have a culture that was taken from the dregs of Avery 15. Chad Y talks about this strain(s) extensively on his old blog - http://www.brettanomycesproject.com/2009/02/inoculation-a-15-dregs/
Which he found out is actually 2 strains of Brett - http://brettanomyces.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/two-for-one-brettanomyces-strains/

The same culture I was given was also given to White Labs. I do not know what White Labs did with the original culture (if they isolated cultures or removed bacteria), but the properties are very close to my experience.
 
bogwart said:
I'm interested in hearing what the upper limit of this yeast is as well. It would seem that with enough healthy yeast and ideal circumstances, it should be fairly alcohol tolerant. I made a belgian stout that finished WAY too high: from 1.088 to 1.026. I took 1gal of it and pitched the trois. It's moving slowly, but after 2 weeks it's down to 1.020 and very fruity. Next in line I have a brett brux trois porter (same one from the Zymurgy magazine). That should begin at a 1.080. The plan is to go 100% fermentation with the trois on that one as well.
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I've done a strong golden that pushed 12%. Not as good a profile as C in that beer, but fermented out intwo weeks with 22% sugars.
 
I will have to dig through notes for starting gravity, but finished at 1.004. Mashed for 60 at 148 with 90% pils malt. Some acid and Carapils to round it out with a pinch of aromatic.

Edit: two liter starter ramped up over two weeks for a 7 gallon batch (2 for bottles, 5 for keg)
 
If its 12% then it would have started around 1.090 or 1.095. That is some attenuation. I'm confused about the sugar, did you add sugar?
 
Dextrose and honey. About half and half staged during first few days of fermentation.
 
Took a sample today of my pale ale fermented half with Brett 'Trois' and half with Brett brux/lambicus (5 gallons of each).

My first impressions of the brux/lambicus blend is Belgian ale with spices. I think this spice flavor might make a unique Belgian holiday ale. It tastes a lot like green apples and, to a lesser extent, tropical fruit. The fruitiness could be attributed to my citra/chinook hop schedule. The yeast is still causing a lot of turbulence, indicating its not quite finished. The brux/lambicus blend has it sitting at 1.016 after 17 days. Out of curiosity, the pH measured was 4.26

In contrast, the Trois half tastes much cleaner - it doesn't have the same Belgian spice in the aroma or flavor. The aroma is very light and fruity. Honestly, it's very clean, but tastes a little green. Again, the fruitiness is probably due to the hops. The yeast has pretty much flocculated out and, judging by the sample, has pretty much attenuated. This half came in at 1.010 with a pH 4.20.

I was hoping to package this batch on Sunday, but it looks like the b/l blend needs more time. The Trois half will be packaged, pending stable gravity reading, on Sunday.

I'm thinking the b/l blend will be racked on top of some sugary medjool dates so that I can free up the fermenter.

image-2626335742.jpg
 
Picked up some of this Brett B strain from Hop & Grape earlier this week, and I'm now fermenting a Beglian red at a ratio of 75% Sacc and 25% Brett. After 12 hours the fermentation was vigorous to say the least. This is my first foray in to Brett B, and I'm really looking forward to this one. Plan to drop in to secondary after 10 days and leave for a further 14 before bottling.
 
TequilaMockingbird said:
Picked up some of this Brett B strain from Hop & Grape earlier this week, and I'm now fermenting a Beglian red at a ratio of 75% Sacc and 25% Brett. After 12 hours the fermentation was vigorous to say the least. This is my first foray in to Brett B, and I'm really looking forward to this one. Plan to drop in to secondary after 10 days and leave for a further 14 before bottling.
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You'll be happy with this yeast regimen, but plan on giving it 6 to 8 weeks in the fermenter. Around the 6 week mark you'll notice a very delicate note of Brett funk.
 
Johnnyhitch1 said:
Ended up stiring a 1500 starter and brewed up a simple pale ale with nelson sauvin and pacific jade hops split it in 3 batches.
Under pitched one. Split the rest between the other 2 batchs and aerated only one of them

as of 5 hours the largest krausen is on the underpitched batch?!
nice krausen on the normal pitch aerated
pellice forming on the non-aerated

Will report back!!
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ended up throwing in 1/3 bottle of POM cherry into each after they slowed down bout 2 weeks ago which they ate within days
Bottled all 3 yesterday and holy s$% the only one i didnt airate stinks amazing of overripe pineapple guava tangerine with that beautifully grape aroma from the sauvin hops and this slighty stone fruity aroma from the cherry and pom im assuming but WOW was i impressed with this experiment.

If your going for fruity tart over funk DO NOT AIRATE!!
Both batchs wether under or over pitched while being airated both taste very alike and have a slight acetic acid sourness to it already tropical fruit is evident but not as much as the non-airated

Bottles are carbing up for now. I have 5 bombers of each variation and plan to sample then 1 month apart after about 2 months of aging. I know this sounds very short but when the last bottle is sampled it will be 7-8 months in bottle or mayb i will save the last one for the year anniversary :ban:

thx again for all the help in this thread, lotta good readin in here!!
 
Johnnyhitch1 said:
If your going for fruity tart over funk DO NOT AIRATE!!

thx again for all the help in this thread, lotta good readin in here!!
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Awesome experiment. I look forward to the tasting results. There sure is a lot of great info posted here!

I packaged my wild pale ale over the weekend. The half fermented with Trois finished 1.010. Along the same lines: tropical fruit aroma and flavor from the uncarbonated sample at bottling. Tasting notes forthcoming. The half that was fermented with brux/lambicus (WLP) blend was not quite finished, and I needed the carboy, so I racked it to secondary on top of 5lbs of sugar medjool dates. It's already fermenting like crazy.

I also brewed up a wild IPA (for lack of a better term) with 4oz of each of Columbus, chinook, and Simcoe at flame out. I pitched the 644 slurry from the pale ale. I pitched about 150 mL of slurry (og is 1.067) in each carboy. I will report back. In future batches, I'd really like to test the upper limits of this yeast (644) in terms of both gravity and temperature.
 
I am doing an education session for my beer club on this particular yeast and we are running into some issues I hope some of you could address.

We are doing 6 different beers all fermented with 100% of the Brett Trois.

3 of us have brewed our batches already while the other 3 have not.

One recipe seems to have stalled after only 8 days. He says after 45 hours the beer was down to 1.027. But since then the beer has not dropped any more gravity points. So after only 2 days the Trois brought the beer down to 1.027 but now 5 more days later and the beer is at the same gravity. The beer originally started at about 1.045. Fermentation has been done at the mid 70's.

Another member pitched his yeast over 48 hours ago but is not getting much activity.

All of us are seasoned brewers so I am fairly confident that all our pitch rates/temp/mash parameters are correct.

Does this yeast have cycles as some Brett does? Any info anyone could provide would be appreciated
 
What were the pitching rates? This is pretty weird as I have followed this thread for a while and not seen anyone with stalled fermentations. In many cases, the brewers in this thread have used 1 to 2 liter starters for normal sized beers and have seen good atentuation.

Also curious what the mash temperature was? I mashed at 150 and had my Trois Pale Ale finish at 1.010 after two weeks. The fermentation, as many have discussed here, follows a very similar appearance as a tradional Sacc ferment, except that I am experiencing extended krausening. So, while it looks like a typical Sacc krausen, it is lasted two times longer than a side-by-side Sacc krausen.

Capture.JPG
 
maybe this will help. Let me put in exact quotes their responses in our ongoing emails.

OK, I may have a problem unless this brett ferments in cycles. It's been 1 week since I brewed, so I checked the gravity so we have some data on how the brett functions, and my gravity was exactly the same as it was after 45 hours. Its stuck at 1.027. It's very sweet still (cloyingly sweet) since it's only fermented 45% of the sugars. I did mash a bit warmer (156-157) since I expected the brett to rip through everything, but there's no way it should finish this high.

I had been fermenting in mid-70's (room temp at our house right now), which is on the low end of the yeast's range, so I put my seedling heating mat under the fermenting bucket tonight. I also gently stirred with a SS spoon to try to rouse the yeast. I should be able to get it into the 80's I think, so hopefully the warmer temps will invigorate the yeasties to start up again. If not I'll need a plan B.

If anyone has any suggestions (other than the warmer temps) I'm open to them. I suppose it could just need more time, but there is no signs of fermentation (it's starting to clear) and no gravity drop in 5 days. If this were my personal brew I'd consider hitting with some of my Wyeast Brett Lambicus that I have after another week or two of inactivity. Adding another brett should knock down the gravity like adding brett in secondary, but that would completely screw up the dynamics of our experiment (plus it may not be ready in time).

I'll keep an eye on it, maybe it will wake up after i warm it a bit.

I had great fermentation 12 hours from pitching - the yeast ripped thru the first 55% of the sugars, then just stopped. Not sure why. The heating mat has it up to 79 today - there's very little airlock activity. I'll wait and see how you guy's beers do, and give mine some more time. Mabye it's like that DuPont Saison strain that craps out for two weeks and come back to life after that to finish?
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The other brewers comments:

I have had little to no activity out of my wort since I put it in the fermentation chamber on Wednesday night. I started it out at 70F, and was planning to slowly ramp it up to between 75-80F or so, but last night it has a very small krausen (1/4-1/2 inch) on top, so I went ahead and bumped it to 80F (basing it also on the feedback about yours stalling out) and haven't really seen any changes. I'm close to 48 hours and feel like I should see some sort of activity.

For what its worth, in the early days of my yeast starter, I had a nice little krausen, but as I continued to ramp it up every 3-4 days with more starter wort, that krausen went to about nothing. Could I have done something wrong there, or does anyone have any suggestions?
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We all made 1000ml starters over the course of 8 days. My beer is currently doing ok I think. I brewed Sunday and after 5 full days of fermentation I have dropped from 1.086 to 1.034. The airlock bubbles about every 15 seconds. I am fermenting at 76 degrees.
 
From Chad Yokobsen, the Brett will have a lag after the first few days, the get active again around 7-8 days. My initial fermentations (did 2 batches both described in this thread) were far more aggressive than those described above. I ferment in my kettle normally, and since I wanted to free it up to brew the following weekend, I racked to secondary fairly quickly, then ignored them for weeks. So I can't comment on whether there was a vigorous second fermentation or a long slow drop. I can say my blond never got a new kreusen even when racked onto fruit. My pitching rate would have been higher than yours. I pitched cooler, but ramped as high as 80 on their own in those first days.
 
In the first email, I would say the mash temperature negatively impacted the fermentation. Also, while the suggested temperature range for this yeast is pretty high, I think that applies to secondary aging rather than a primary ferment. Maybe hit the brew with some amylase enzyme to increase fermentables? (I've never done this before, but it's all I can think of to save this brew)

It is very weird that the second brewer had issues with fermentation during the starter stage. I had a big Sacc-like krausen in my starter. I think something went wrong with the starter prep, as s/he suggests, but I'm just speculating based on the description.
 
NcBrewer35 said:
OK, I may have a problem unless this brett ferments in cycles. It's been 1 week since I brewed, so I checked the gravity so we have some data on how the brett functions, and my gravity was exactly the same as it was after 45 hours. Its stuck at 1.027. It's very sweet still (cloyingly sweet) since it's only fermented 45% of the sugars. I did mash a bit warmer (156-157) since I expected the brett to rip through everything, but there's no way it should finish this high.

I had been fermenting in mid-70's (room temp at our house right now), which is on the low end of the yeast's range, so I put my seedling heating mat under the fermenting bucket tonight. I also gently stirred with a SS spoon to try to rouse the yeast. I should be able to get it into the 80's I think, so hopefully the warmer temps will invigorate the yeasties to start up again. If not I'll need a plan B.

If anyone has any suggestions (other than the warmer temps) I'm open to them. I suppose it could just need more time, but there is no signs of fermentation (it's starting to clear) and no gravity drop in 5 days. If this were my personal brew I'd consider hitting with some of my Wyeast Brett Lambicus that I have after another week or two of inactivity. Adding another brett should knock down the gravity like adding brett in secondary, but that would completely screw up the dynamics of our experiment (plus it may not be ready in time).

I'll keep an eye on it, maybe it will wake up after i warm it a bit.

I had great fermentation 12 hours from pitching - the yeast ripped thru the first 55% of the sugars, then just stopped. Not sure why. The heating mat has it up to 79 today - there's very little airlock activity. I'll wait and see how you guy's beers do, and give mine some more time. Mabye it's like that DuPont Saison strain that craps out for two weeks and come back to life after that to finish?
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The email above is actually mine. Some more specifics about the beer is it's mostly a copy of Tasty McDole's Janet's Brown recipe, only I switched out the 1lb of wheat for a 1lb of quick oats. The SG was actually 1.061 and it's currently stuck at 1.027. Everything I've read suggested that the Brett Trois rips through everything, and most people were getting 80%+ attenuation, so to counter that I mashed a bit higher (156-157) instead of the 154 suggested in the recipe, since I was hoping for some body left in the beer. I pitched a 2 liter stir plate starter that was stepped up 3 times over a week. I didn't aerate other than splashing the crap out of it while cooling and racking to the fermenter. Initial fermentation was strong, but then it crapped out at 1.027.
The recipe does have a lot of carapils and crystal malts in it - that combined with the higher mash temp would definitely leave a normal sacc yeast finishing way too sweet, but I guess I assumed that brett trois would rip through some of those sugars. Looks like I was wrong.
Maybe I'll just rack this batch to a carboy and pitch some Wyeast Brett L and let it sit for a few months, and re-brew the same beer at a lower mash temp for our club experiment. I guess I'll wait to see how the other club beers turn out first.
 
bigljd said:
The email above is actually mine. Some more specifics about the beer is it's mostly a copy of Tasty McDole's Janet's Brown recipe, only I switched out the 1lb of wheat for a 1lb of quick oats. The SG was actually 1.061 and it's currently stuck at 1.027. Everything I've read suggested that the Brett Trois rips through everything, and most people were getting 80%+ attenuation, so to counter that I mashed a bit higher (156-157) instead of the 154 suggested in the recipe, since I was hoping for some body left in the beer. I pitched a 2 liter stir plate starter that was stepped up 3 times over a week. I didn't aerate other than splashing the crap out of it while cooling and racking to the fermenter. Initial fermentation was strong, but then it crapped out at 1.027.
The recipe does have a lot of carapils and crystal malts in it - that combined with the higher mash temp would definitely leave a normal sacc yeast finishing way too sweet, but I guess I assumed that brett trois would rip through some of those sugars. Looks like I was wrong.
Maybe I'll just rack this batch to a carboy and pitch some Wyeast Brett L and let it sit for a few months, and re-brew the same beer at a lower mash temp for our club experiment. I guess I'll wait to see how the other club beers turn out first.
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Sounds like a good candidate for an weird Oud Bruin! Throw a pitch of Roselare in there and let that sucker sit!!!
 
mhenry41h said:
Sounds like a good candidate for an weird Oud Bruin! Throw a pitch of Roselare in there and let that sucker sit!!!
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I thought about that too, the only problem is the recipe has 50 IBUs so I'm not sure the sour would go too well with the bitter (plus the lacto and pedio would have a tough time working at those IBUs).
I also thought about rebrewing it at very low mash temps, leaving out the carapils and cutting 1/2 the crystal. I should end up with a super dry beer I could blend back with the first batch to balance the sweetness. Then I'd have 5 gals of beer to share with the club, and 5 for me to drink.
Not sure what I'll do yet.
 
bigljd said:
I thought about that too, the only problem is the recipe has 50 IBUs so I'm not sure the sour would go too well with the bitter (plus the lacto and pedio would have a tough time working at those IBUs).
I also thought about rebrewing it at very low mash temps, leaving out the carapils and cutting 1/2 the crystal. I should end up with a super dry beer I could blend back with the first batch to balance the sweetness. Then I'd have 5 gals of beer to share with the club, and 5 for me to drink.
Not sure what I'll do yet.
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I wasn't thinking about the IBU load...you are dead right...the bacteria won't be happy. Brewing a dry version and blending is a terrific idea.
 
If you can, just let it ride would be my opinion. I don't have a fancy stir plate so I propped up my starter in a growler. I started with around 1000ml of 1.030 wort for 7 days, then added an additional 1000ml 1.030 wort for another 7 days. My recipe followed Chad Yakobson's recipe in Zymurgy and I mashed at 152. I had strong, active fermentation for roughly two weeks then it tapered off to a moderate but still active fermentation for the third week. It went from a 1.054 to a 1.010. I checked it again at week 4 and it's down to a 1.008. I still have the thick krausen on top of the beer as well. From that same starter, I did pitch roughly 250ml into one gallon of a stout that stalled at 1.026 (from a 1.088). In four weeks, it's only dropped to a 1.020, but it still seems to be active. I'd try to give it some time...you might be in the lag phase and it'll kick back up again soon.
 
bigljd said:
The email above is actually mine. Some more specifics about the beer is it's mostly a copy of Tasty McDole's Janet's Brown recipe, only I switched out the 1lb of wheat for a 1lb of quick oats. The SG was actually 1.061 and it's currently stuck at 1.027. Everything I've read suggested that the Brett Trois rips through everything, and most people were getting 80%+ attenuation, so to counter that I mashed a bit higher (156-157) instead of the 154 suggested in the recipe, since I was hoping for some body left in the beer. I pitched a 2 liter stir plate starter that was stepped up 3 times over a week. I didn't aerate other than splashing the crap out of it while cooling and racking to the fermenter. Initial fermentation was strong, but then it crapped out at 1.027.
The recipe does have a lot of carapils and crystal malts in it - that combined with the higher mash temp would definitely leave a normal sacc yeast finishing way too sweet, but I guess I assumed that brett trois would rip through some of those sugars. Looks like I was wrong.
Maybe I'll just rack this batch to a carboy and pitch some Wyeast Brett L and let it sit for a few months, and re-brew the same beer at a lower mash temp for our club experiment. I guess I'll wait to see how the other club beers turn out first.
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Something I wonder about this particular strain is whether it will continue to work on the longer chain dextrines slowly over time. I purposely under-primed my bottles because was worried that, even though my batch finished at 1.011 or so, the Brett would keep chewing away. I don't know that this will happen, but I wonder if you left your beer alone for a while you'd see the Brett continue to slowly bring it down.
 
berebrando said:
76586d1348270444-wlp644-brett-b-trois-capture.jpg
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I really like this little chart you have here. Any information as far as fermentation temperature? I have mine going at 74 degrees (Rye Double IPA), One of the brewers has his at 78 degrees (Old Ale) . Not sure what BigLJD was initially fermenting at I believe he said mid 70's which is similar to mine. I think I am going to bump mine up to 78 degrees to hopefully avoid the lag.

Perhaps we can flush this chart out a little more with additional data such as fermentation temperatures, and the role acidulated malt plays in the fermentation.

We are going to be doing a presentation on this yeast for our club so once it is done I would be more than happy to post the presentation for others to learn from. This chart would go great in it
 
NcBrewer35 said:
I really like this little chart you have here. Any information as far as fermentation temperature? I have mine going at 74 degrees (Rye Double IPA), One of the brewers has his at 78 degrees (Old Ale) . Not sure what BigLJD was initially fermenting at I believe he said mid 70's which is similar to mine. I think I am going to bump mine up to 78 degrees to hopefully avoid the lag.

Perhaps we can flush this chart out a little more with additional data such as fermentation temperatures, and the role acidulated malt plays in the fermentation.

We are going to be doing a presentation on this yeast for our club so once it is done I would be more than happy to post the presentation for others to learn from. This chart would go great in it
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I think it would be a great idea to add data points for fermentation temp. There are still a lot of holes, but it is a good start. Obviously the more people post their data points and results, the better the collective table will be. Feel free to use it.
 
My data to complete the table:

Brewer: diegobonatto
Beer style: Belgian Tripel
Yeast: WLP644
Starter: two steps, 2 Liters
Details: incubator (shaker) - culture growth @ 28 °C for 6 days (3 days for each step).
OG: 1.080
FG: 1.007

Two weeks in primary, starting @ 18 °C until beginning of fermentation; then the temperature was slowly raised to 21-23° C. After two weeks, temperature was reduced to 1-3 °C and the beer was kept for more two weeks at these temperatures until bottling.

Very interesting results - strong alcohol taste/aroma that is beginning to fade now. Big fruity aromas (banana specially), with a nice malt aftertaste from Pilsen malt.
 
I'll add my 2 to the list
#1: blond, 2L starter no stirplate, 1.063 to 1.009, started around 64F let get into the 70s for 4 weeks, pretty fruity & banana. accidentally left the lid loose for over a week so it got plenty of oxygen, zero funk or sour

#2: american saison, re-used some of the yeast cake from blond, 1.052 to 1.006, 70-78F for 4 weeks, fruity again but less banana thankfully

JLem said:
Something I wonder about this particular strain is whether it will continue to work on the longer chain dextrines slowly over time. .
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I can't say for this strain cuz I haven't had it long enuf, but my other 100% brett beers never continued to work. got a few diff ones over a year old & no gushers
 
diegobonatto said:
My data to complete the table:

Brewer: diegobonatto
Beer style: Belgian Tripel
Yeast: WLP644
Starter: two steps, 2 Liters
Details: incubator (shaker) - culture growth @ 28 °C for 6 days (3 days for each step).
OG: 1.080
FG: 1.007

Two weeks in primary, starting @ 18 °C until beginning of fermentation; then the temperature was slowly raised to 21-23° C. After two weeks, temperature was reduced to 1-3 °C and the beer was kept for more two weeks at these temperatures until bottling.

Very interesting results - strong alcohol taste/aroma that is beginning to fade now. Big fruity aromas (banana specially), with a nice malt aftertaste from Pilsen malt.
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Any data on mash temps? I am wondering if mash temps should be raised to get a less dry beer as compared to using sacc yeast?

Also anyone using acidulated malt? If so at what percentage and are you adding to regular mash or doing a mini mash?
 
Also what about Krausen characteristics? One of the brewers that was reporting no signs of fermentation as far as a krausen and bubbles out of his airlock did a gravity check and it appears to be fermenting fine.

I haven't checked the gravity yet, because I've really seen no activity and didn't want to expose the wort for nothing. But I'll check it in the morning. I'm using a glass carboy, in a fermentation chamber with a blow off tube.

As for my starter, I went for 10 days with the following step routine:

Day 1: pitched 1/2 vial and 1/2 liter wort with yeast nutrient
Started in 2000mL erlenmeyer flask on stir plate
Day 4: added 1/2 liter wort with yeast nutrient to starter
Day 8: added 1 liter wort with yeast nutrient to starter
Day 10: pitched yeast into wort.

I'll be in touch tomorrow.
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When he checked his gravity here is what he said:


Well, this is really interesting. I checked the gravity and its down to 1.025 (from 1.072), so it's been at work. Maybe it's jus the characteristic of the yeast but there was almost no krausen and no visible bubbling in the blowoff.
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BigLJD had this to say about his version which also seems to have picked back up again.

I stirred mine a little bit again earlier tonight with my wine thief and activity is definitely picking back up on mine. I just checked the airlock and it's continuously bubbling now. Hopefully it'll stay that way for a few days and get me a drinkable beer. I'm going to leave it be now until airlock activity stops again and then I'll re-check the gravity.
Learning new yeasts is always fun, especially something like a brett yeast that seems to have a mind and a plan of it's own
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Most of my initial fermentation occurred in the first 20 hours, and I didn't have much krausen either, so it probably fermented down without you even noticing.
Try to keep it around 80 and be patient and it should pick back up again. Swirling it a little bit to keep the yeast roused won't hurt either. My airlock has been consistently bubbling every 3-5 seconds for the last 36 hours, and my gravity has dropped 4 more points, so I'm back in business again. It would seem our batch of yeast likes to ferment like a bat out of hell for 24 hours and then take a nap for a week before waking back up again to finish the job (I hope it finishes anyways).
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So it seems that this yeast can sometimes not really show any traditional fermentation patterns. It seems to sometimes not really krausen and also seems to "take a break" in the middle of fermentation.

It appears as though my Rye 2XIPA is also doing the same thing as BigLJD's right now it does not seem to be fermenting very much any more. Be interesting to see if it follows the same pattern as BigLJD's beer does. The spacing between our brewing time is about the time it took him to see lag. I brewed a good 3-5 days after he did and now my beer seems to be seeing a lull in fermentation activity. Wonder if it will pick back up like his?
 
NcBrewer35 said:
Any data on mash temps? I am wondering if mash temps should be raised to get a less dry beer as compared to using sacc yeast?

Also anyone using acidulated malt? If so at what percentage and are you adding to regular mash or doing a mini mash?
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My mash profile:

Acid rest 38,0 C 40 min
Protein rest 52,0 C 20 min
Maltose 1 63,0 C 30 min
Maltose 2 68,0 C 40 min
Saccharification 1 73,0 C 60 min
Saccharification 2 78,0 C 15 min

Being a Tripel, sugar was added to compose 20% of grist weight, which explain the low FG obtained. Moreover, the beer is not watery or thin, but have a nice medium body, as expected for a Tripel.

No acidulated malt here.
 
As NCBrewer noted, my fermentation had re-started a couple days after warming the beer up to around 80 and gently stirring it to rouse the yeast. The gravity dropped 5 or 6 points and it was on it's way to finishing. Well, my kid left the window open in the room it was in last night and temps outside were in the upper 40's last night so even with the seedling heat mat under the bucket the temp dropped to 76 and airlock activity had mostly stalled. I closed the window this morning and threw a thick bath towel over the bucket and the heating pad to insulate it a bit and try to warm it back up again. If I can squeeze another 5-6 points out of this fermentation I'll be right where I want to be.
This is purely speculative, but in my case this yeast seems to be really sensitive to temperature variations, especially later in fermentation. Initially it fermented vigorously but for me to get it finish I seem to have to hold it around 80 with no temp variations or activity quickly drops.
I'm curious too, about how many others are using acid malt in their grain bill with this yeast? Chad's research seems to show an improvement in attenuation with a lower ph beer, but if nobody else is using it and getting 80% attenuation then I won't be adding it again. I used 12oz acid malt in this beer.
 
I haven't seen real attenuation differences with acid malt. Have used the strain for 3 IPAs, the first went from 1.056 to 1.007 w/o acid malt (also no starter but 2 vials), the second was re-pitch 1.059 to 1.004, and third pitch was 1.053 to 1.008 (only 2 week ferment). The last 2 had almost 10% acid malt addition. What I did see is that the acid malt beers had a better fruitiness from the yeast. Not really scientific because of the no starter for the first, and the fact that the first was a black IPA, the second was a standard IPA, and the third was a white IPA. Those variables could have accounted for the changes in flavor but who knows. All were mashed at 148 to 150. However, this has become my go to IPA strain and will become a 4th batch this weekend.
 
Well, I'm currently fermenting my third all-Brett Trois beer. So far I have made a pale ale and fermented at 70 F (taste test tonight). Next, I made an IPA that fermented at 65 F.

Now, I have a wheat that will serve as the base beer for a sour. The wheat was brewed a few days ago and put in the fermentation chamber at 60 F, which is where I normally ferment with US-05. Twenty four hours after pitching and it is clearly fermenting. Interesting to see that temperature (at least between 60 ad 70) is not really slowing down the Trois.
 
berebrando said:
Well, I'm currently fermenting my third all-Brett Trois beer. So far I have made a pale ale and fermented at 70 F (taste test tonight). Next, I made an IPA that fermented at 65 F.

Now, I have a wheat that will serve as the base beer for a sour. The wheat was brewed a few days ago and put in the fermentation chamber at 60 F, which is where I normally ferment with US-05. Twenty four hours after pitching and it is clearly fermenting. Interesting to see that temperature (at least between 60 ad 70) is not really slowing down the Trois.
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Glad to hear this. I'm probably going to brew a batch tomorrow and was thinking of fermenting it down in the low 60s. I was wondering if this would work ok. The last one I made was fermented in the 70s. This time I'm going for a brown ale base that I'm going to add cranberries to. A beer for Thanksgiving. I'm thinking that the fruitiness from the yeast, the tartness of the cranberries, and the the sweetness from the malt will meld really nicely.
 

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