Oh my god I made a huge mistake, please let me know about this grain bill

I got confused on my grain bags and used the wrong one. I wanted to brew a Belgium Tripel ( all grain kit from Midwest supplies) and my classic american IPA. I 'was' brewing my ipa today but found out after I mixed the grains that it was the wrong bag. Now I fudged up two recipes and am left with 10pound rarh. Looking at around 80 bucks in the hole and a very strange beer in the pot, let me know what you think about this grain bill! PLEASE! I'm freaking out

17lb domestic pilsner malt
8oz caravienne
1.5lb American rarh
1lb briess crystal 20
.75lb light munich
.75lb carapils
.25 Torrified Wheat

suppose to be 11.5lb american rarh instead of the pilsner malt and caravienne

Mash at 152 for 1 hour
Boil 90 min

chinook 1oz 30 min
Cascade 1.5oz 30
Willamette .5oz 15
Cascade 1.5oz 15
Willamette 1.0oz 5
Cascade 2.0oz secondary

White labs california ale w/ starter

I'm a new all grainer and don't know what to think about all this. I'm staying with my original ipa recipe while using the 17lb pilsner as my base malt. Should be a wicked strong beer but might taste like a fregn boot, help por favor.

Do you have any more hops? With the much higher gravity you're not going to get as much bitterness out of the hops. If you have more hops, you really need a 90 minute addition to get some bitterness in there. Add some more late in the boil and call it an iipa.

Nothing you can do now, just go with it. I think it will be okay, maybe even good. Only thing you might have to do is add more yeast. It'll be a big beer.

I have a little more cascade and thats it, I think I will add all I have, 2 more oz to boost it, it's a 90 minute boil, going now for 45, OK here it goes!

Keep track of what you add and when so that you can reproduce it when it's the best beer you've ever had.

First, for goodness sake, RDWHAHB, or a CB if need be.

I think the advice on hops and yeast was solid. It will be beer for sure, likely good beer, and maybe even great beer. Just ride it out!

man I do not know what rdwhahb or cb means, I'm a noob but not that noobish, please explain...

Relax Dont Worry Have A Home Brew = RDWHAHB
Comercial Brew = CB

like they all said, it will still be beer. Call it a belgian tripel IPA

Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Home Brew, or Commercial Brew

sigh...drinks homebrew...everything will be ok. I've been planning my brew day for weeks now for my IPA, ready to enter it into a competition. It's a great classic IPA and am kicking myself in the teeth for fudging it up. I may have created the worlds first belgium tripel IPA, maybe add candi sugar and orange with this grain bill?

Dane said:

sigh...drinks homebrew...everything will be ok. I've been planning my brew day for weeks now for my IPA, ready to enter it into a competition. It's a great classic IPA and am kicking myself in the teeth for fudging it up. I may have created the worlds first belgium tripel IPA, maybe add candi sugar and orange with this grain bill?

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No, you're not the first, but it's not exactly the most commonly brewed beer out there.

And don't sweat the competition. There's always another one.

It will be drinkable, I think, but adding more hops was a bad choice IMHO. What you've got is a high gravity pilsner with high alpha acid hops, which is totally inappropriate, so the resulting high bitterness can be a little disturbing upon a pilsner backbone.

Also, brewing pilsner as base malt using an ale yeast will result in off-tastes, likely.

I don't know... The more I look at the recipe the more I think this may be a borderline toss. Sorry.

Looks like you're using American yeast. If so, there won't be anything "Belgian" about it just due to the grain bill. The Belgian character comes from the yeast strain utilized. Also looks like your primary issue was subbing pils instead of standard 2 row, I do that all the time as the two are both quality base malts. Other than a higher than intended OG (and I do agree you need to increase your bittering hops) it probably won't be much different than the recipe you originally intended.

KellyK said:

Looks like you're using American yeast. If so, there won't be anything "Belgian" about it just due to the grain bill. The Belgian character comes from the yeast strain utilized. Also looks like your primary issue was subbing pils instead of standard 2 row, I do that all the time as the two are both quality base malts. Other than a higher than intended OG (and I do agree you need to increase your bittering hops) it probably won't be much different than the recipe you originally intended.

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Hum. While it's ok to use some portion of two row to brew pilsners, using pilsner as base malt to brew an ipa is not OK.

"Brewing pilsner as base malt using an ale yeast will result in off-tastes, likely."

I'm going to have to disagree with this quite strongly, there is nothing about using pilsner malt in and of itself that will result in "off flavors" or tastes (unless you cover the boil as it's more prone to the production of DMS) and definitely no prohibition between using pils malt and ale yeast. The vast majority of belgian beers are pils malt base and use belgian ALE yeast. Kolsch and Dusseldorf Alt are also brewed with base Pils malt and ale yeast.

KellyK said:

"Brewing pilsner as base malt using an ale yeast will result in off-tastes, likely."

I'm going to have to disagree with this quite strongly, there is nothing about using pilsner malt in and of itself that will result in "off flavors" or tastes (unless you cover the boil as it's more prone to the production of DMS) and definately no prohibition between using pils malt and ale yeast. The vast majority of belgian beers are pils malt base and use belgian ALE yeast. Kolsch and Dusseldorf Alt are also brewed with base Pils malt and ale yeast.

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Yeah, but have you heard of a great IPA that uses pilsner as base malt? Or a pilsner based beer with high aa hops? Come on... You seem like you know better than that!

Indyking said:

Also, brewing pilsner as base malt using an ale yeast will result in off-tastes, likely.

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It'll taste like whatever esters the yeast would normally throw (in the case of California Ale not much) and pilsner malt taste. Don't be worried.

If you get 60% efficiency or there abouts you'll have a 1.087 beer and with the added 2oz of Cascade you should be at 88ibus (if similar to what I have in beer smith). Looks like you might have a pretty good Double IPA if you get a lower efficiency (which is not uncommon with huge grain bills) or if you get a good efficiency you'll have a barelywine in terms of bitterness and alcohol levels.

Anyways keep us posted, you might make the best beer ever by accident.

Indyking said:

Yeah, but have you heard of a great IPA that uses pilsner as base malt? Or a pilsner based beer with high aa hops? Come on... You seem like you know better than that!

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Pilsner Based Beer with high AA Hops: HOUBLON CHOUFFE Dobbelen IPA Tripel - essentially the original belgian IPA.

Great IPA that uses Pils Base: Troegs Brewing Company in Pennsylvania uses Pils malt as the base for the vast majority of their beers including Nugget Nector which, in my opinion, is a pretty good commercial IPA and which uses multiple high AA hops including Warrior, Tomahawk and Simcoe.

I was correcting your incorrect statement of fact, that Pils malt cannot be used with ale yeast without producing off flavors, not trying to get into a debate regarding whether Pils malt is "ideal" for an IPA - 2 row is ideal, but using Pils isn't going to make a beer a dumper by any means.

To the OP, don't worry about mixing up your grain. You will certainly make many more (likely worse) mistakes as you journey into homebrewing.

KellyK said:

Pilsner Based Beer with high AA Hops: HOUBLON CHOUFFE Dobbelen IPA Tripel - essentially the original belgian IPA.

Great IPA that uses Pils Base: Troegs Brewing Company in Pennsylvania uses Pils malt as the base for the vast majority of their beers including Nugget Nector which, in my opinion, is a pretty good commerical IPA and which uses multiple high AA hops including Warrior, Tomahawk and Simcoe.

I was correcting your incorrect statement of fact, that Pils malt cannot be used with ale yeast without producing off flavors, not trying to get into a debate regarding whether Pils malt is "ideal" for an IPA - 2 row is ideal, but using Pils isn't going to make a beer a dumper by any means.

To the OP, don't worry about mixing up your grain. You will certainly make many more (likely worse) mistakes as you journey into homebrewing.

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OK, fair enough mister "want-to-correct-you"... Next time, a little less rudeness will be appreciated.

KellyK said:

"Brewing pilsner as base malt using an ale yeast will result in off-tastes, likely."

I'm going to have to disagree with this quite strongly, there is nothing about using pilsner malt in and of itself that will result in "off flavors" or tastes (unless you cover the boil as it's more prone to the production of DMS) and definitely no prohibition between using pils malt and ale yeast. The vast majority of belgian beers are pils malt base and use belgian ALE yeast. Kolsch and Dusseldorf Alt are also brewed with base Pils malt and ale yeast.

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Indyking said:

Yeah, but have you heard of a great IPA that uses pilsner as base malt? Or a pilsner based beer with high aa hops? Come on... You seem like you know better than that!

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Indyking said:

OK, fair enough mister "want-to-correct-you"... Next time, a little less rudeness will be appreciated.

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Get over yourself. Just remember a pilsner is a light stout Indy.

SwampassJ said:

Get over yourself. Just remember a pilsner is a light stout Indy.

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A pilsner is a light stout? What is that about?!?

It's done, the recipe is at follows,

17lb domestic pilsner malt
8oz caravienne
1.5lb American rarh
1lb briess crystal 20
.75lb light munich
.75lb carapils
.25 Torrified Wheat

Mash at 152 for 1 hour
Boil 90 min

Chinook 1.5oz 90
chinook 1oz 30
Cascade 1.5oz 30
Willamette .5oz 15
Cascade 1.5oz 15
Willamette 1.5oz 5
Cascade 2.0oz secondary

White labs california ale w/ starter

Wow what a weird beer, The OG is 1.085! Hopefully be around 8-9% not too shabby.

You guys are great. I was so confused when I noticed my mistake. I started thinking about my hop regiment, yeast starter, etc. Interesting that it's been done before, a Belgium IPA. Hopefully the California yeast won't throw it off, I don't think so. Hopefully no off flavors in the pilsner malt either. Nonetheless, I'm not sending this to BJCP championships, as long as it tastes good with me I'm happy, man what a mistake, my worst yet, it really really makes sense to label your grain bags right

Man, some of you guys are seriously anal about this.. can't wait till I get there...


I bet your beer tastes great.. but then again, I am a noob.. well maybe intermediate on the noob end..

and if you don't like it, just create another beer to blend with it..

Is that for 5 gallons?.. That's a lot of hops... Then again, that's a lot of grain...

You should be okay. I mixed up the yeast packets for two brews I was doing almost simultaneously. I basically just rolled with it and the beers turned out fine. Maybe you've come up with something new and interesting (and tasty).

I sure as hell hope so. I can replace the grains for cheap and still brew my ipa and tripel... and have this beast gurguling over in the corner. I'm quite happy with it, my efficiency was not bad, tastes pretty good, and oh yeah, it's hopped out like a muddah. I like the advice for mixing it with another, not a bad idea, no experience in that though. I'll let it ferment out and taste it, then think about adding hops to the secondary. This was my first real problem/topic on this forum and you people really helped me out, I love brewing beer.

Dane said:

I like the advice for mixing it with another, not a bad idea, no experience in that though.

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Well, it's fresh on my mind as I just royally screwed up a 10G batch of a Stone IPA clone with efficiency @20% below what I was planning on..

So now I'm getting ready to brew a very 'big' 5G batch of Stone IP clone (OG around 1.090 or more) to mix with it after everything is fermented (original and fix it).. then I'll take the extra five gallons left over from the whole mess and use that to 'experiment' with a 'fruit' version of the IPA...

Is it really possible to brew an unsaveable home brew if you are at least careful with sanitation? I think not...

Indyking said:

A pilsner is a light stout? What is that about?!?

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Wink

[/Quote]Great IPA that uses Pils Base: Troegs Brewing Company in Pennsylvania uses Pils malt as the base for the vast majority of their beers including Nugget Nector which, in my opinion, is a pretty good commercial IPA and which uses multiple high AA hops including Warrior, Tomahawk and Simcoe.[/QUOTE]

I have to second the Nugget Nectar. This seasonal should not be missed.

Indyking said:

Hum. While it's ok to use some portion of two row to brew pilsners, using pilsner as base malt to brew an ipa is not OK.

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Indyking said:

OK, fair enough mister "want-to-correct-you"... Next time, a little less rudeness will be appreciated.

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God, what a classic troll bait-n-switch tactic: make an outrageous claim designed to generate responses, and then try to completely change the focus of the discussion.

KellyK said:

I was correcting your incorrect statement of fact, that Pils malt cannot be used with ale yeast without producing off flavors, not trying to get into a debate regarding whether Pils malt is "ideal" for an IPA - 2 row is ideal, but using Pils isn't going to make a beer a dumper by any means.

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Kelly,

Don't worry about Indyking so much. He's a veteran of such threads such as, "I turned a slightly long lag time into a three-page dissertation on being obtuse," and, "If you've had a good 4-week old homebrew, its because you can't taste beer." He's a pretty good troll, but not so advanced that even a relatively new poster - like me! - can spot him.

Rundownhouse said:

God, what a classic troll bait-n-switch tactic: make an outrageous claim designed to generate responses, and then try to completely change the focus of the discussion.


Kelly,

Don't worry about Indyking so much. He's a veteran of such threads such as, "I turned a slightly long lag time into a three-page dissertation on being obtuse," and, "If you've had a good 4-week old homebrew, its because you can't taste beer." He's a pretty good troll, but not so advanced that even a relatively new poster - like me! - can spot him.

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I'm not a troll... I'm just not a... well never mind... it's not worth it. You got the message...

SwampassJ said:

Wink

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Men, I'm impressed... you've got a great memory... well, that stout-is-a-pilsner buddy of mine decided to quit brewing for a while... I guess that was a good decision

Will be waiting to see how it turns out.. Hope it's a great beer for you.

it smells great through the air lock, lots of hoppy aroma's. OG was at 1.085, very nice. Fermentation started in 4 hours and still going strong. I'm sure it will turn out great but will keep everyone posted for weeks to come and let you know what this beast turned out like. Thanks for everyone's comments and help, I cheers those who make this resource available to us, ah hell I cheers you all, cheers!

I just racked her after 14 days in the primary on top of 2.5oz cascade hops. Very very strong alcohol bite and aroma. It even had a bit of sour taste (never a good sign) but my sanitation is always spot on, hope that goes away! The final gravity came out to 9.6%abv. I know this will have to age for a while to mellow out which ties up a secondary for a couple weeks-months, who knows. I'm letting her sit till it's ready ready but if the sour taste remains it will turn into my first dumper. Nevertheless, it's a great experiment and another reason to get another secondary!