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In Canada home brewing saves lots. 5 gallons of beer here is $100. So 1 batch with equip cost almost the same as just the beer here. So now it's just profit :p
 
Now that's expensive! Even here,for a 6'r of craft beer,the line starts at $7.99. So dividing that by 6,I get $1.33 per bottle. I Can brew something similar for about 49c per bottle for 51 bottles of PM pale ale.
 
Then there is the whole cost of your time to brew versus to buy pre-made and ready to drink. [...] They obsess over saving $2-3 on a pound of hops, but figure that the 6 hours they spent brewing is somehow "free".

We brew because it's fun. It's a hobby. Counting the time it takes to brew the beer makes about as much sense as counting the time it takes to drink it.
 
Why should you count the time involved brewing? If you enjoy it it is not work it is fun. Plenty of people have other hobbies that not only cost more money but are less fun with no benefit of producing a consumable good.

You should be counting it if you are making the assertion that you can make homebrew cheaper than commerically made beer. The commercial brewery has labor charges wrapped up in their $8-10 per 6 pack retail cost. Of course the price per six pack of homebrew is cheaper; you guys aren't counting one of the most expensive aspect of making beer...the labor!

Of course it is a hobby and therefore you discount your time in the name of fun. Obviously I do this too or I wouldn't be a homebrewer (or bake bread, or woodworking, etc).

My only point is if you are doing a true price comparison then it should be done fairly...or at least recognize the fact that you are discounting your time to pursue the hobby.
 
This is getting silly. It's cheaper (free) to swap my summer/winter tires on my car myself than it is to take it to a garage ($10). Yet, if you count my time (it takes me considerably longer than it would taken them), maybe it comes out as a wash, and I shouldn't be telling people I'm saving money by swapping my own tires?

Maybe I'm not really saving any money changing my own oil, either, because I'm not counting my time?

Maybe mowing my lawn isn't actually saving me any money because it takes me 45 minutes and I could pay a kid to do it for $10?
 
You should be counting it if you are making the assertion that you can make homebrew cheaper than commerically made beer. The commercial brewery has labor charges wrapped up in their $8-10 per 6 pack retail cost. Of course the price per six pack of homebrew is cheaper; you guys aren't counting one of the most expensive aspect of making beer...the labor!

By that logic, if I replace the clutch in my truck myself instead of paying a shop $1,000 to do the job I'd actually lose money.
Cost of parts $250
Cost of shop's labor $750
Shop bills me $75/hr and 10 hours
total cost from the shop $1,000

Total cost if I do the job myself $250 in parts
Total time to do job myself 12 hours @ $75/hr = $900
Total cost to do it myself $1,150

even though I'm saving $750 by doing it myself, if I figure that most shops bill $75/hr and it takes me 12 hours to do the job myself then I actually lost money, even though I'm $750 richer for my time.

If this is how you figure homebrewing isn't saving money it's no wonder you are looking at it that way! haha. Homebrewing isn't a job, it's a hobby and if you actually make $75/hr at your day job then you make a lot more than most of us.

I'll gladly spend 12 hours of my time to save $750.

Shops and breweries have overhead and taxes to pay, not just the labor of the brewer which is why it's much cheaper to homebrew.
 
OK...so your time is worth nothing. Got it. If that is what it takes to validate the time you spend brewing, then go for it. You should start making your own clothes and growing your own food too while you are at it. After all, its cheaper to do all that yourself. Oh, you don't do that? I wonder why....
 
OK...so your time is worth nothing. Got it. If that is what it takes to validate the time you spend brewing, then go for it. You should start making your own clothes and growing your own food too while you are at it. After all, its cheaper to do all that yourself. Oh, you don't do that? I wonder why....

Funny you mention that. I grow about 500 lbs of vegetables every year which provides most of the food my wife and I eat the rest of the year and we buy a beef cow from my inlaws who raise beef every year so 400lbs of beef goes into my freezer every summer @ $2/lb instead of $5-$12/lb from the grocery.

While the average American wastes 30 hours per week watching TV (I don't even have cable or dish service), I spend those 30 hours brewing my own beer, growing my own food, doing my own home improvements and maintaining my own vehicles because I enjoy it AND it happens to save me a TON of CASH! Your FREE TIME is not something you have to put an hourly wage on. That is why it's called free time. I happen to enjoying making things in my free time instead of wasting it as a couch potato. :mug:
 
I happen to enjoying making things in my free time instead of wasting it as a couch potato. :mug:

But I think that is the magic answer. If the only reason you brew is to save money, it is a lot of effort that could be spent on something you enjoy more. Personally, I do not track how much I spend on a batch of beer. I brew it because I enjoy doing so.
 
Time it takes to make it can't be accounted for unless you take time off work. Must cost you a suit load to watch tv, sleep, go for a walk etc. Time off of work is called leisure.
 
But I think that is the magic answer. If the only reason you brew is to save money, it is a lot of effort that could be spent on something you enjoy more. Personally, I do not track how much I spend on a batch of beer. I brew it because I enjoy doing so.

Well said.

I would not say that brewing beer ONLY to save money is a worthwhile endeavor. If you don't enjoy homebrewing but rather you consider it a chore then it's not worth it.
 
Time it takes to make it can't be accounted for unless you take time off work. Must cost you a suit load to watch tv, sleep, go for a walk etc. Time off of work is called leisure.

Instead of dropping in for a quick snarky comment, maybe you should read the thread. Try to keep up sonny.

I already stated that for hobbies, etc. time shouldn't be counted. By the same token, if its a hobby then cost really isn't a factor either. Which is why doing this comparison between cost of homebrewed beer and commerical beer isn't relevant in the first place.

However, if you are going to do the exercise of comparing costs, then you should take account of all of the relevant costs....even if you end up discounting/dismissing them at the end of the day for the sake of hobby.
 
You should be counting it if you are making the assertion that you can make homebrew cheaper than commerically made beer. The commercial brewery has labor charges wrapped up in their $8-10 per 6 pack retail cost. Of course the price per six pack of homebrew is cheaper; you guys aren't counting one of the most expensive aspect of making beer...the labor!

Of course it is a hobby and therefore you discount your time in the name of fun. Obviously I do this too or I wouldn't be a homebrewer (or bake bread, or woodworking, etc).

My only point is if you are doing a true price comparison then it should be done fairly...or at least recognize the fact that you are discounting your time to pursue the hobby.

I disagree with this. I understand what you are saying, but there are a ton of things in life I do to save money, that cost me time. When I change the oil in my car, if I add my time, it costs me money, but I don't have to pay myself $30 to do it on a Saturday. It's not an actual out of pocket expense. So, rather than shelling out close to $40 after tax for an oil change. I'd rather save $20 and do it myself. Yeah, I did save $20. It's not like I took off work to change my oil. Same with mowing my lawn, fixing a toilet, and even brewing beer.

I think the only way you really should have to add labor cost to the cost of your beer, is if you actually have to pay someone to brew it for you or you have to take time of of work, from a paying gig, to brew your own beer. In the end, you are trading time for money, but unless you are actually spending money out of pocket, it's not really costing you "money" If I were lookign at it as a business, yeah, I'd have to run all the numbers perfectly and there would be labor costs. Homebrewing shouldn't factor in labor that doesn't actually cost money.
 
But I think that is the magic answer. If the only reason you brew is to save money, it is a lot of effort that could be spent on something you enjoy more. Personally, I do not track how much I spend on a batch of beer. I brew it because I enjoy doing so.

this is well said.
 
this is well said.

Thanks, I have my moments.

My point is that your time is absolutely worth money. Whether you lose out on actual money to brew beer certainly depends on your profession and compensation base (do you work for yourself or do you have your work day set in specific hours?).

But even without the "did I miss work to brew" analysis, there have to be SOME things in your life you enjoy doing. If brewing is not one of them, and you spend 7 hours on a Saturday brewing beer to save money, then you cost yourself nearly a whole day of doing something you want to do...playing with your kids, golfing, camping, hunting Sasquatch, etc.

That's why I don't track the cost of my brews, even though I am an anal Type-A person with an accounting background. You have to just say "screw it" sometimes and do the things you want to do.
 
I also have amother hobby. I'm building a drag car. And you said cost shouldn't be a factor for a hobby which is completely false. I'm not going to drop 60000 in a few months to get it done ASAP. I do it as I can when I can. Just because I can't afford to drop 60k doesn't mean I should stop doing that hobby.
 
And I will account for labour. When I'm not working my labour cost is $0/hour. Therefore this hobby saves me money. Sorry you're taking offense billyboy :p
 
Thanks, I have my moments.

My point is that your time is absolutely worth money. Whether you lose out on actual money to brew beer certainly depends on your profession and compensation base (do you work for yourself or do you have your work day set in specific hours?).

But even without the "did I miss work to brew" analysis, there have to be SOME things in your life you enjoy doing. If brewing is not one of them, and you spend 7 hours on a Saturday brewing beer to save money, then you cost yourself nearly a whole day of doing something you want to do...playing with your kids, golfing, camping, hunting Sasquatch, etc.

That's why I don't track the cost of my brews, even though I am an anal Type-A person with an accounting background. You have to just say "screw it" sometimes and do the things you want to do.

I think most people brew though, because they enjoy it. In fact, let's factor in golf. I used to golf a lot until my back went bad. It's good now and have planned on getting back into golf, that was until I started brewing beer. So, since I'm brewing beer, instead of golfing, can I take that $80+ I just saved from not golfing and apply that to my money saved on brewing beer?

Theoretically, yeah, you could run every number into the ground if you wanted. But I would think for some, me included Brewing beer is my golf. It takes me about the same amount of time and gives me a similar relaxation and enjoyment. So I think for me, any hours spent brewing that could be fatored into cost, could also be factored out based on the enjoyment I get from brewing.

And just to let it be known, no, I didn't get into brewing to save money. I tried it, enjoyed it and do it strictly based on the enjoyment factor I get. I could say "Yeah, I brew awesome beer!" But, I really think what's happening is that brewing my own beer has actually made me even enjoy drinking it more. Something I didn't think was possible with the enjoyment I already was getting before.
 
If you're going to factor in your hourly rate, golf just got even more expensive!
 
Well I have to say that for me I'm spending more on my hobby than I was spending on beer before.

Keep in mind that I started out by buying a kegerator and co2 equipment. Then started to assemble a 10gal AG setup. I tried to do it on the cheap, but I've spent so much on stuff that I ended up not needing, that I'm well over $2g into this adventure.

On the upside,... once I get everything streamlined, if that ever happens, I'll have alot of stuff to get rid of on Ebay. That'll help recoop some cost.

Plus I'm making 10 gal batches of damned good beer for about half what it would cost me to buy it for.

Did I mention the additional costs for buying sample beers to get ideas for what I want to brew?

Then there's the labor issue. An old farmer told me just after I bought my farm, (don't own it anymore), if you put a value on your labor, you figure yourself at a loss every time.

To surmise what I just said. It cost me way more than I thought it would to save more and have better beer. But it was worth every penny,... even if I don't save a damned dime!

pb ---:mug:
 
Well,I do save some money in up front costs. But just knowing I'm saving a little but getting my own beer is payment enough.
 
Again though bob, it depends on your purpose. I like it for giving me access to styles I wouldn't otherwise have in my self righteous hypocritical living environment. To be competitive, the gas expended to acquire such things (not even addressing questionable legality as you're limited to how much you can bring across state lines but then again homebrewing is allegedly illegal here too but then again it's a felony to own pots and pans for that matter) I would be spending a fortune. Even $40 for a batch is more reasonable from that perspective. Some of the beer we enjoy we can get locally for $10/12pack when on sale making this a better option than homebrewing and we do so fairly regularly as well. At least with Homebrewing it gives me something productive to do with my time. Let's face it... Programming on tv blows now a days.
 
As the OP I feel obligated to share my view on the value of time.

Time is the only thing we are limited on. You can always get more money.
 
As the OP I feel obligated to share my view on the value of time.

Time is the only thing we are limited on. You can always get more money.


If you enjoy brewing that is a good use of your leisure time. The average american spends over 4 hours per day watching TV or movies, around 30 hours per week! That's easily 5 all-grain brew days a week you are wasting by watching TV. If time was that critical to the average American he/she would be out doing something constructive (like homebrewing!) instead of sitting on their a$$. :p
 
Again though bob, it depends on your purpose. I like it for giving me access to styles I wouldn't otherwise have in my self righteous hypocritical living environment. To be competitive, the gas expended to acquire such things (not even addressing questionable legality as you're limited to how much you can bring across state lines but then again homebrewing is allegedly illegal here too but then again it's a felony to own pots and pans for that matter) I would be spending a fortune. Even $40 for a batch is more reasonable from that perspective. Some of the beer we enjoy we can get locally for $10/12pack when on sale making this a better option than homebrewing and we do so fairly regularly as well. At least with Homebrewing it gives me something productive to do with my time. Let's face it... Programming on tv blows now a days.

If I put my startup costs aside, and forget what I'm spending on those samples. I'm brewing cheaper beer that if I bought the equivalent, no doubt. And as time goes by, ( if I can quit dumping $$$ into it), I'll be ahead anyway.

As for TV? I haven't tuned in for years, maybe 5 or more. It's Netflix or Hulu, or the like if I'm gonna watch anything, and that's only a couple times a week.

pb
 
(not even addressing questionable legality as you're limited to how much you can bring across state lines but then again homebrewing is allegedly illegal here too but then again it's a felony to own pots and pans for that matter)

Where do you live???
 
Thanx for the advice and encouragement. I have been going to The Best Damn Brew Shop in Down Town. It is cool to know that experience will equal better Beer.

So people actually shop there? I went there last month and all the homebrew supplies were covered in months-old dust.

Go here instead. http://www.thehomebrewersd.com/

The best homebrew shop I have been to in South County...they actually care if you make a good brew there unlike the other shops in town who just shove you out the door.
 
You should be counting it if you are making the assertion that you can make homebrew cheaper than commerically made beer. The commercial brewery has labor charges wrapped up in their $8-10 per 6 pack retail cost. Of course the price per six pack of homebrew is cheaper; you guys aren't counting one of the most expensive aspect of making beer...the labor!

Of course it is a hobby and therefore you discount your time in the name of fun. Obviously I do this too or I wouldn't be a homebrewer (or bake bread, or woodworking, etc).

My only point is if you are doing a true price comparison then it should be done fairly...or at least recognize the fact that you are discounting your time to pursue the hobby.

I believe the comparison is that he can make his own beer cheaper than he can go out and purchase beer. Not, to compare who makes it cheaper, him or Budweiser.

With that said, of course you don't add a cost to the time you are spending on a hobby. That is plain ridiculous, IMO. Besides, who's to say if that time weren't spent brewing, it wouldn't just be on the couch?
 
Can't believe nobody has mentioned factoring the 'value' of not paying taxes or participating in the bottle deposit program.

Standard Econ 101 covers 'opportunity cost'. Classic example is what wages are passed up while pursuing an academic degree which theoretically leads to higher future wages. My brewing time would be substituted by other non-revenue producing activities so I would have a tough time justifying a labor cost.

If I were doing a balance sheet I'd have to factor a high level of Good Will on the asset side. I call it homebrew...my friends call it free beer.
 
tommysauder said:
In Canada home brewing saves lots. 5 gallons of beer here is $100. So 1 batch with equip cost almost the same as just the beer here. So now it's just profit :p

Amen to that!

The cheapest 'craft' beer you can buy I. Canada will run you at LEAST $42-46 for 24. That's over a hundred dollars already! 12 packs of craft beer start at $14-16, so you can already see how expensive beer can get up here.

However, to fill up my propane it costs $18, a batch will cost me about $30-35 minimum if using dry yeast, and after building a kegerator, my AG set up, corny kegs, the price really starts the stack up.

But if we are going to talk purely economics, very few people have talked about the utility curve associated with this hobby. Even if it does cost more, we enjoy brewing, we enjoy the community and people we meet within it, we enjoy the fact that we can make almost literally ANY type of beer WHENEVER we want. That's some
Utility you can't get when buying beer on the market.

All in all, it's a hobby, very few hobbies return a profit. If I can even get close (which I truly relieve I am), then I'm one happy man!
 
It's a hobby, sure, but what I like is that it produces beer!

I'm a snob, and since being in Germany, I'll only drink wheat beers from Germany. That's expensive, about $12 a six-pack. Eight six packs is $100, and I can brew the equivalent for less than half that.

So the key factor is the rate of beer consumption :mug: You have to invest up-front in kegs, carboys, fridges, etc, etc. How fast you climb out of that hole is based on your rate of beer consumption.

Say 4 six-packs a week; you save $25 a week. If you invest, say, $600 in equipment, you will begin to show a "profit" after 24 weeks.

And the whole thing will be blown once you keg it and serve at a party :)
 
I am very happy with the decision to skip bottling and go straight to Kegs. Washing dishes is my least favorite chore. I enjoy sweeping up the alley more.

@NadoHawk

Where is the store that you are referring to? I do not click on links in Forums anymore due to receiving a nasty Trojan virus on a different forum a while ago.

The guy in Down Town has been very helpful to me. He even took the time to explain the different Malts and how they are baked. Along with a small taste of each from Light to Dark. So I was able to get a better sense of what each one brings to the Brew.
 
To be honest, what he did to make a batch is all it takes for great beer. Its really that simple. We seasoned HBers tend to take things to a diffrent level when it comes to making beer.

OP you did well and nice to see a blow off rigged too ! Enjoy.
 
I am very happy with the decision to skip bottling and go straight to Kegs. Washing dishes is my least favorite chore. I enjoy sweeping up the alley more.

@NadoHawk

Where is the store that you are referring to? I do not click on links in Forums anymore due to receiving a nasty Trojan virus on a different forum a while ago.

The guy in Down Town has been very helpful to me. He even took the time to explain the different Malts and how they are baked. Along with a small taste of each from Light to Dark. So I was able to get a better sense of what each one brings to the Brew.

I must have gone at a bad time (early on a Saturday) since there was no one at that section of the store.

2911 El Cajon Blvd #2

On the corner of 30th & El Cajon....it's easiest to get there from the 805.
 
Thanx Bx. I had to change out three of those bottles when my current batch was really kicking off.

That shop is not too far from my pad. Although it is a little sketchy taking a bicycle on the 805.

@Accidic So what does every one else call that state?

Made the call to dry hop this one also. Will be adding 2oz. of loose Chinook via the pair of "socks" once transfered to Keg.
 
Depends on how much in denial/deluded, self righteous, and/or arrogant that person is... Pretty sure most of the realistic folk left over call it the same.
 
So anyways..... I racked the Belgian Red with a dry hop addition yesterday. And it tastes great. Technically the dry hop should soak for up to two weeks but I am out of beer.

The new batch I cooked up is a Dunklewiezen made with 6lb. of dry extract 1lb. liquid extract and 1.5lb. of steeping grains with only 2oz. of hops. The powder went in a bit clumpy but smoothed out as the boil progressed. And W.L. American Hefewiezen for yeast.


Also when I force carbonated this time I used the lay the keg on its side and roll method. It worked much better than the standing straight up and shake.
 
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