Another Cidery Taste thread, but I think I've nailed it down...

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

sven137

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
My last three batches have had a cidery wang to them. On the first two, I thought it might be questionable ingredients, so I went to a proven recipe with proven ingredients I've used in the past: an American Hefe that I've made 4 times now. I still got cider from that even, so I started looking up threads on here about cideritis.

- cheap or wrong sugars - Cheap fermentable sugars aren't the culprit, as I only use what I understand to be, quality malts from Northern Brewer and Midwest Supplies, and I only use Corn Sugar for bottling, not brewing. I mix 5oz of said sugar in bottling bucket with batch before bottling. I don't think that is it.

- sanitation - I'm pretty sure it is not sanitation, or lack there of. I'm pretty clean in my process. I do use straight un-boiled tap water, but it has never caused problems in the past. As I was taught: if you like the taste of your tap water, then use it. I sanitize with bleach and a name brand sanitizer, and as a Nurse, I am all to familiar with infection control.

- lack of conditioning or green beer - I am tempted into impatience as much as the next guy, but I only partake in the green on a limited basis. I have only had one batch (my first batch, two years ago, which used half corn sugar/half syrup malt) that improved in the way of cideriness after time spent in the bottle. All my other batches were basically "set" in taste after two weeks in the bottle. My cidery batches as of late, remained cidery after months in the bottle.

- Ferment temp - Here's where I think I've been funking up, lol. I have a radiant heated house, heated by a boiler that pumps hot water throughout the house through a series of pipes in the concrete slab. I keep my house at 70 degrees, but my floor is much warmer. I have placed my primaries directly on the floor in pretty much the warmest floored room in my house. I do have a temp strip on my primary, but it is old and basically ineffective. I thought I read 75 one day and thought, meh, 75 is close enough. I think that's my downfall.

I currently have a batch of high gravity Double Brown in the secondary. It's been there now for a month (2 weeks prime, month 2ndary, and will be 2mos in the bottle). It is ready to be bottled. Is there any saving it from cidery doom?

Oh and yes. I will ferment on non heated floor in order to keep my temps under 70 from here out. Not so strangely, I haven't had this problem before when I wasn't running my heater (in warmer months), or when I fermented on non-heated floor. Ain't acetaldehyde a biotch...
 
How much yeast are you pitching? You can get acetaldehyde if for whatever reason the yeast can't or won't clean up after themselves properly.

I had a batch that I racked directly onto a yeast cake and had this problem - it took a long time to go away, about 3-4 months.
 
How much yeast are you pitching?

White Labs vial or WYeast Activator started with an 8oz DME 2 quart boil and fermented for 24-48 hrs. I don't think quality or quantity of yeast is at fault. I think it's mainly the temp of my primary fermentation.

I have a whole batch of American Hefe that's been in bottle for a month. Does anyone think lots of time in a cooler spot, say 60-70 will help take some of the cider away from that batch, or is it doomed? This batch was fermented at temps ranging from 70-80 degrees, and is currently very cidery. Any saving it at this point, or did high temp ferment ruin it?

Same with my Double Brown, which has been in secondary for a month. Primaried and secondaried at same temp range of 70-80 degrees. Haven't bottled it yet though. I heard tell that introducing some more fermentables and putting it in a cooler spot, say 60-65 degrees, and letting it re-ferment, will take away some of the acetaldehyde. That sound like a good idea to any of you?
 
A post from another thread.


"I think bleach sticks to plastic. I used to leave a bleach solution in my buckets between batches, then hose it out and fill with StarSan. I absolutely ruined two batches with chlorophenols.

Now, I leave my buckets full of imitation Oxi Clean Free, rinse that out thoroughly, and mix my StarSan with very-slowly-carbon-block-filtered water. Still, I managed to taint a recent batch either from cleaning keg parts with bleach or not filtering my priming solution well enough. I feel like I need to be just as paranoid about chlor[ine|amine] as infection - I've lost three brews to the former and two to the latter!

If the beer makes burnt bandaid burps, it's chlorophenol.
"
I too soak buckets with Bleach in between batches. I didn't know anything about chlorophenol. That may very well be a problem for me too. So water and sanitizer from now on it is...
 
I agree that temperature is your biggest problem. My first couple of batches (made in the summer, with a Mr. Beer kit) tasted very cidery, and even when I didn't use the booster sugar they still had some of it. I know they fermented at 75 or so, maybe even higher. After reading some posts here I started putting the fermenter in my air conditioned bedroom for the first week, which at least stayed under 70. The problem was greatly diminished, and even when I used the booster sugar it was barely detectable.

I think it's the first 5 days that make the biggest difference. Figure out a way to keep your fermenters at 65 or so for the first week and I think you'll see a huge improvement.

The bad news (at least for your hefe) is that the taste really does not seem to diminish much over time. I tried aging some of those first bottles for 2 months and it was still there. Drinkable, but definitely still cidery.
 
If you are not using one of those stick-on type thermometers on your fermenter, I would recommend it. Keep in mind that the temperature inside your fermenter when things are really cooking can easily be 5 degrees higher than ambient.
 
My last three batches have had a cidery wang to them. On the first two, I thought it might be questionable ingredients, so I went to a proven recipe with proven ingredients I've used in the past: an American Hefe that I've made 4 times now. I still got cider from that even, so I started looking up threads on here about cideritis.

- cheap or wrong sugars - Cheap fermentable sugars aren't the culprit, as I only use what I understand to be, quality malts from Northern Brewer and Midwest Supplies, and I only use Corn Sugar for bottling, not brewing. I mix 5oz of said sugar in bottling bucket with batch before bottling. I don't think that is it.

- sanitation - I'm pretty sure it is not sanitation, or lack there of. I'm pretty clean in my process. I do use straight un-boiled tap water, but it has never caused problems in the past. As I was taught: if you like the taste of your tap water, then use it. I sanitize with bleach and a name brand sanitizer, and as a Nurse, I am all to familiar with infection control.

- lack of conditioning or green beer - I am tempted into impatience as much as the next guy, but I only partake in the green on a limited basis. I have only had one batch (my first batch, two years ago, which used half corn sugar/half syrup malt) that improved in the way of cideriness after time spent in the bottle. All my other batches were basically "set" in taste after two weeks in the bottle. My cidery batches as of late, remained cidery after months in the bottle.

- Ferment temp - Here's where I think I've been funking up, lol. I have a radiant heated house, heated by a boiler that pumps hot water throughout the house through a series of pipes in the concrete slab. I keep my house at 70 degrees, but my floor is much warmer. I have placed my primaries directly on the floor in pretty much the warmest floored room in my house. I do have a temp strip on my primary, but it is old and basically ineffective. I thought I read 75 one day and thought, meh, 75 is close enough. I think that's my downfall.

I currently have a batch of high gravity Double Brown in the secondary. It's been there now for a month (2 weeks prime, month 2ndary, and will be 2mos in the bottle). It is ready to be bottled. Is there any saving it from cidery doom?

Oh and yes. I will ferment on non heated floor in order to keep my temps under 70 from here out. Not so strangely, I haven't had this problem before when I wasn't running my heater (in warmer months), or when I fermented on non-heated floor. Ain't acetaldehyde a biotch...

I've had this problem... typically from high temp fermentation. In my experience if you start your fermentation in high temps you get lots of the cider flavor. The brew I'm drinking now had that for the first 2 weeks. It has dissipated...

Long story short; get a thermometer that has a probe that can be snuk into your bung "insert joke". Keep in mind that your ambient temperature will be a few degrees lower than the fermenter since the yeast at work produce heat. All else fails do what I do when a homebew falls short... drink 1 less than perfect home brew for every reallt good one you drink. Prost!
 
Back
Top