Making some Belgian Candy Sugar

I am making some Candy sugar right now . . . much easier than I thought. I am trying to decide what to brew with it. I don't have any begian yeasts right now. I may wait to get some.

I was also thinking about making a strong scottish ale with it. Has anyone ever put Candy Sugar in their Scottish styles?

I never tried a scottish ale, but You could make some candy with it or higher gravity beer. Through all the research I have done, and all the experiments with using Candy sugar, and plain table sugar they all seem to turn out the same.
It's sugar, and it's highly fermentable, and I can't taste the difference.

Damn it!

I followed the directions and put it on wax paper to cool. Now, the wax paper won't peel off.


Damn it!

try a razor blade for removal. Parchment paper may be an alternative solution to the wax paper.

How would one go about making candy sugar???

...and I've heard people mention using table sugar instead of candy sugar, but I'm wondering if they make a slurry or just add it directly???

First, you buy some candy. Snickers, Butterfinger, RedHots, etc. Then...

oh, wait, you guys are talking about "candi", not "candy". Hmmm...

oh, Google, you sweet thing...

"Just heat a solution of plain white sugar and water,then put it in a tall container and drop strings in. For dark candi sugar keep it on the stove longer and it will caramelize (turn brown). In time the dissolved sugar will crystallize around the string. This will require planning as it can take many weeks."

I read that you need a teaspoon or so of citric acid as well (lemon juice).

You thinking of invert sugar? That's not the same thing, is it?

I don't know why, but it sticks in my head that Papazian said that table sugar doesn't ferment - something about the yeast not being able to consume it. I'm guessing I'm wrong. I'll have to look it up.

I got my info here:
http://www.brew365.com/technique_candi.php

Table sugar does indeed ferment...but it imparts a rather nasty cider-ish flavor to beer, which is why it's not recommended for use in homebrewing. Hell, I wouldn't really even trust my own homemade candi sugar. I would consider using store-bought belgian candi from my HBS. But just the idea of using anything like table sugar doesn't sit well.

Belgian Candi sugar is a type of invert sugar.

Just remember, when making candies, soft ball (240F), hard ball (260F), soft crack (275F), and hard crack (300F) temperatures are just as important as your brewing temperatures. If you don’t hit that hard crack temperature when making it, you won’t end up with candi sugar. For instance, if you only hit 260F, you’ll end up with something like divinity.

Also, when you get above 275F, be careful you don’t boil your pan dry. Have extra water on hand just in case.

And give yourself plenty of time for cleaning up the kitchen afterwards.

I made one batch of Candy Sugar with citric acid, lernt a couple things;

As it came to boil, it froths up a bit. I figure that is the extra oxygen molecule that ties the glucose to the fructose coming out. I figure that extra oxygen has to be what causes the cidery taste if table sugar is used, since malts are the same basic suger 'blocks', yet don't make cidery.

The citric acid made it too acidy to use in a starter. Maybe I used too much acid ? My liquid yeast didn't ever go, two weeks later I poured the water off and added malt syrup, it went good. I guess I acid washed my Cal V. The syrup worked good as priming though, for about 4 batchs.

Evan! said:

Table sugar does indeed ferment...but it imparts a rather nasty cider-ish flavor to beer, which is why it's not recommended for use in homebrewing. Hell, I wouldn't really even trust my own homemade candi sugar. I would consider using store-bought belgian candi from my HBS. But just the idea of using anything like table sugar doesn't sit well.

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Table sugar is safe to brew with, BUT I wouldn't use it for priming!

Yeah, it's "safe" to brew with. Meaning, it will "safely" produce an alcoholic beverage. But so will almost any sugar. While it may be "safe", it probably won't be "good"...unless you like cidery-tasting brew.

Table sugar is not all that bad. I was under that assumption for years then found out that when used in the proper amounts you will not notice much of a tastfferance. Particularily with darker beers.

My studying on the net does not come up with any definitive chemistry for why sugar should cause cidery taste. Other than the legend that the cheapest possible homebrews were that way. Some experts think it was probably from the bread yeast used. My own experience with the froth that rises when making invert sugar made me look up the fact that sucrose is one glucose, bound to one fructose, via one extra oxygen molecule. So maybe the oxygen does something? But also, I think I've added a pound er so of table sugar to everybatch, and haven't had any oxygenation problems.

Isn't the use of regular sugar historically an important part of most English beers. Correct me if I am wrong here, but at one moment in history, Britain started taxing beer on the amount of barley that was used in the brew. Hence, it was cheaper to use sugar to obtain fermentables for a beer. I have used brown sugar in my milds and browns, and I never get any type of cider flavor. I am not sure how this would be different from using white table sugar.

As for the reason to make invert or candi sugar - it is to break apart some of the sugars, etc. so that the yeast don't have to spend the extra energy to do it. i.e. it stresses our friends a little less when we break the sugars down for them.

Evan! said:

Yeah, it's "safe" to brew with. Meaning, it will "safely" produce an alcoholic beverage. But so will almost any sugar. While it may be "safe", it probably won't be "good"...unless you like cidery-tasting brew.

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I've used it in brewing with reasonable amounts, and have never noticed a cidery taste.
What is your experience with these cidery tastes? Is it just what you have been reading or do you have any practical experience with it? And in what percentages of the total grist?

sonvolt said:

Isn't the use of regular sugar historically an important part of most English beers. Correct me if I am wrong here, but at one moment in history, Britain started taxing beer on the amount of barley that was used in the brew. Hence, it was cheaper to use sugar to obtain fermentables for a beer. I have used brown sugar in my milds and browns, and I never get any type of cider flavor. I am not sure how this would be different from using white table sugar.

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That's a good point, since brown sugar is really just table sugar with molassess added to flavour it.

Found a nice summary on invert sugar here:

http://www.answers.com/topic/invert-sugar

Good to know you can use ascorbic acid instead of citric, I always have vitamin C lying around.

One difference between cane sugar and beet sugar is that only cane sugar can be used to make molasses (or brown or turbinado sugar).

Holly Sugar Co. uses sugar beets to make granulated sugar. I visited their plant in Harford, TX some years ago, and unwashed beet sugar is orange in color instead of the tan color of "turbinado" (cane) sugar. I know they were being pressured by cheap cane imports and rising water costs, but beet sugar should still be available.

Would anyone know the exact amount of citric acid or ascorbic acid to add to 1 cup (appx. 2/3 lb.) sugar? Most recipes I've found on the Internet seem to quote or paraphrase the same recipe, and according to those sources a teaspoon of lemon juice is equivalent to a "pinch" of citric acid.

A "pinch," according to many cooking forums, is equal to 1/8 teaspoon. Wikipedia says lemon juice is 5 percent citric acid (1/20th). By extension, a pinch of citric acid is 2.5 teaspoons of lemon juice. It doesn't add up.

Evan! said:

Table sugar does indeed ferment...but it imparts a rather nasty cider-ish flavor to beer, which is why it's not recommended for use in homebrewing. Hell, I wouldn't really even trust my own homemade candi sugar. I would consider using store-bought belgian candi from my HBS. But just the idea of using anything like table sugar doesn't sit well.

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I disagree.

I used 1/8 tsp of acid blend in a 1.5 lb batch of invert syrup.
Held 275F for 90 minutes until it had nice color and flavor.

I think the heat does most of the inverting and the acid is a catalyst.
Please tell me if I'm doing it wrong.

Sugar is less than 50 cents per pound, so there's no reason not to experiment.

I don't think you need the acid at all...the heat will do it but it just takes a little longer.

Here is a thread I made about making dark candi syrup. EDIT: Flyangler18 posted a pic of some hard dark candi he made in it.

From what I've read...if you are using sugar or syrup without any color then you are wasting your time doing anything to it...just use cane sugar...the yeast will do the rest and by the time they are done with it you won't be able to tell the difference. If you are using dark stuff then it matters...but the 'inverting' doesn't seem to matter...just the color and how that color came to be.

This thread is several years old...I think sugar has lost some of the bad rep it had. Those wacky Belgian Monks seem to do OK with it...but what do they know 'bout brewing?

mkade said:

I disagree.

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And I agree with your disagreement!

Denny said:

And I agree with your disagreement!

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Word...me too.

Here is the thing. First things first, for those that would like to know how to make it, look in the Wiki. O'flannigan did a great write up a year or so ago. I use his method and it works well.

Can yeast ferment straight table sugar? Probably, but it is not good for them. Thus, the sugar needs to be "inverted" to make the yeast happy. To do this, you add the sugar to a liquid environment and add heat and acidity. The beauty of this is boiling wort is awfully hot and has plenty of acidity. Straight sugar can be added to the boiling wort and, unless you are using crazy amounts, you will not have a cidery flavor. Or at least I never have. If you want to impart color/flavor from said sugar, you need to make candi sugar previously and make it darker. Adding plain sugar to the end of the boil is the equivalent of adding clear candi sugar.

rdwj said:

How would one go about making candy sugar???

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cubbies said:

First things first, for those that would like to know how to make it, look in the Wiki. O'flannigan did a great write up a year or so ago. I use his method and it works well.

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Yep- here's a link

Denny said:

And I agree with your disagreement!

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Whoah there. For a minute I thought I was seeing double.

Denny's Evil Concoctions said:

Whoah there. For a minute I thought I was seeing double.

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And who's to say you weren't!

Denny said:

And who's to say you weren't!

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I thought one of my clones escaped!

Well the forum just doubled in awesomeness since there are two Denny's posting in here.

Wait. I'm also a clone. or is it alter ego of one of you Denny's.

Denwa said:

Wait. I'm also a clone. or is it alter ego of one of you Denny's.

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No you were an accidental genetic split that occurred duirng a lab accident in early 05. Now go back to your hole until I have use for you!

Denny said:

mkade said:

I disagree.

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And I agree with your disagreement!

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I'm pretty sure in the 2.5 years since Evan has posted that, he would agree that regular table sugar is fine.

Here is something I posted a while back: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/ad...ot-going-make-taste-like-freakin-cider-90498/

PseudoChef said:

I'm pretty sure in the 2.5 years since Evan has posted that, he would agree that regular table sugar is fine.

Here is something I posted a while back: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/ad...ot-going-make-taste-like-freakin-cider-90498/

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That is hilarious. I should really start checking dates before I reply. haha.

one half teaspoon unconcentrated lemon juice to one pound granulated sugar is a little too much, but it doesn't hurt to make sure. A pound of sugar is *about* 1-1/3 cup.

Amphiprion said:

Would anyone know the exact amount of citric acid or ascorbic acid to add to 1 cup (appx. 2/3 lb.) sugar? Most recipes I've found on the Internet seem to quote or paraphrase the same recipe, and according to those sources a teaspoon of lemon juice is equivalent to a "pinch" of citric acid.

A "pinch," according to many cooking forums, is equal to 1/8 teaspoon. Wikipedia says lemon juice is 5 percent citric acid (1/20th). By extension, a pinch of citric acid is 2.5 teaspoons of lemon juice. It doesn't add up.

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Sorry, this is the quote to my earlier post (1/2 tsp. to 1 lb. sugar).

And btw, I've made several batches with home-made Belgian candi, using both sugar beet and cane sugar. There is a difference (between beet and cane), but inverted sugar (beet or cane) ferments just fine!

The difference is that cane sugar can be processed into molasses, but beet sugar can not. There is a color difference and some flavor difference in the final product, but the color is determined by how long the stuff is boiled.

I have used table sugar in several Belgian beers. It ferments out fine, especially in smaller quantities. At higher quantities it definitely develops a cider taste.

ReverseApacheMaster said:

I have used table sugar in several Belgian beers. It ferments out fine, especially in smaller quantities. At higher quantities it definitely develops a cider taste.

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This is good to know! Are you using raw (not invert) sugar? At what level (percentage of grist bill or lbs. per 5 gal. batch) are you using when you start to notice the cidery taste?