Help with Triple

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noisy123

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Hi,
I have had a Midwest Triple fermenting for 3 weeks as of this wednesday. Today I took a hydrometer reading and got 1.034 (the O.G. was higher than MW predicted at 1.08). It tastes good (obviously extremely sweet).

I am worried the fermentation might be stuck. There seems to be no airlock activity. (I know that I'll need to take more gravity measurements to confirm this). Is the fermentation stuck or does it often take these higher gravity beers a long time to finish?

I aerated with a paddle and my drill motor. It has been fermenting on a ramped schedule from 63 F to 70 F, over the first week. The temp was low last week (65 F). I have turned the temp up again to 70 F.

Thanks for any help.
 
What yeast are you using?

Wyeast 3787. I brewed a belgian pale with the 3787, harvested the cake, washed it, and it spend about a month in the fridge. I then built up that cake a couple of times with starters to have a good amount before pitching.
 
Yep. Its stuck. 24 hours later the gravity reading is 1.032
I have a wit that is almost done right next to it that was fermented with Wyeast 3944. I am thinking about racking the beer on that cake when its finished. Anyone have any other ideas?
 
Hows your temperature? Belgians can stand (and succeed) at higher ferm temps.

You might want to raise the temps a few degrees and see if that kicks off fermentation again.


worth a shot.

edit: just saw your temps.. maybe a few more degrees? I've read belgians can finish high (75F) for those nice estery flavors...
 
Get it warmer and swirl gently to rouse the yeast. My dubbel that's fermenting with 530 is hanging at 1.018, so I'm moving it back upstairs to see if it'll continue dropping. Krausen hasn't yet fallen, so there's things happening yet.
 
I'l give some higher temps a shot. I think I may have underpitched considering that half of the yeast may have died in the fridge during the dormancy (or so I have read). Is there anything I can do for underpitching?
 
Should I rack this to my Witbeer cake (brewed with Wyeast 3944 - tolerance of 10% ABV)?
 
For posterity:

I contacted Evan and asked him about racking this onto a finished Wit beer cake. He said to give it a shot. I did, and its been steadily bubbling for 24 hours. I did not take a gravity reading (not worth the infection risk for mere curiosity), but things seem promising. I highly recommend this strategy.

Now I wish I hadn't shaken the beer! However, I left the airlock in while shaking so oxidization should be minimal.
 
I hear you pain brother. The 3787 or WLP530 will crash in the 1.030's if the temps are not in the mid 70's or higher. When I use that yeast the temp gets tuned up after a few days to 82.

If you ever have a stuck Belgian again the T58 dry yeast is a good bet to bring the FG down because the temp range for it is much wider than 3787 or 530.
 
B-dub - can you clarify a little bit here? you said: "If you ever have a stuck Belgian again the T58 dry yeast is a good bet to bring the FG down because the temp range for it is much wider than 3787 or 530."


Do you mean that you add dry yeast to the wort after you have discovered that you have stuck fermentation?

Or do you mean that you should add that T58 dry yeast in along with your regular yeast when you start your primary fermentation?

Thanks!
 
Adding yeast generally won't help a stuck fermentation because the yeast aren't adapted to the beer, they are adapted to light starter wort they were cultured in. You can build up a starter progressively adding fresh wort and introducing more and more of your beer to it, and pitch it after a few bumps, but it's a pain. Racking onto a cake OTOH, you have lots of yeast that are adapted to beer (as opposed to fresh wort) which will usually take care of finishing the brew.
 
Sorry to be so brief. I had to get to work.

For a stuck Belgian:

First I would warm up the beer (to the top range for the particular yeast) and swirl to bring the yeast into suspension.

Then try the T-58 dry in the fermenter or better yet, like mentioned before, make a starter. Pitch the starter just after activity can be seen.

That 3787 or wlp530 really likes to be warmed up at the last part of fermentation. When the first 2/3 of fermentation is over get the beer warm so the yeast doesn't fall out. Once it drops it can be very hard to get the fermentation going again. That is why adding new yeast is your best bet.

Hope this helps.
 
Racked a 3787 Tripel onto a Wit cake? Arghhh! Patience, patience, patience. My first Tripel took 4+ weeks to get from 1.090 to 1.010. Just needed to warm it up a bit and gently swirl 2-3 time a day and it might have finished. On the other hand I do not know your recipe. Did you use and crystal/carapils? What temp did you mash at?
 
I have to respectfully disagree about leaving a beer for a month to finish.

Proper handling that beer should have been done in a week. It might finish if you baby it along, but I believe the best bet is to be proactive and get the beer done and off the old yeast.

Without knowing all the variables it is hard to back seat drive.
 
For posterity:

I contacted Evan and asked him about racking this onto a finished Wit beer cake. He said to give it a shot. I did, and its been steadily bubbling for 24 hours. I did not take a gravity reading (not worth the infection risk for mere curiosity), but things seem promising. I highly recommend this strategy.

Now I wish I hadn't shaken the beer! However, I left the airlock in while shaking so oxidization should be minimal.

As a Belgian devotee I disagree with this approach at least before exhausting the other options. Most Belgians spend a period of time during their ferment at high 70's to low 80's. This does wonders for kicking off another round of fermentation if you get stuck. Now you will getting muddied yeast characteristics in a style that relies HEAVILY on yeast character.

It is the equivalent of dry hopping a kolsch with 2 oz of Cascades. It may turn out delicious but it is not really a kolsch anymore.

My last Triple spent 6 weeks in primary and another 5 in secondary to end up at 1.014.
 
My recipe is as follows:
13 lbs Pilsner Malt
0.5 lbs Belgian Caravienne
0.25 lbs Belgian Aromatic
1 oz Orange Peel (dried) - added during boil, boiled 0.0 min
1.5 lbs Candi Sugar Clear
2 oz Styrian Goldings (3.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
1 oz Willamette (4.6%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
4 ea WYeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity

Mashed at 149 F for 90 minutes. The temperature was maintained using steam injection.

I was following JZ's recommended fermentation schedule for a triple -- 63 F pitch followed by a gradual ramp to 70 F over the course of the first week of fermentation. After two weeks in the primary (with potentially unstable temperatures) the krausen had fallen and fermentation had ceased (based on consecutive hydrometer readings).

I was using yeast which had been harvested from a previous yeast cake from a smaller beer and washed (Wyeast 3787 from a Belgian Pale ale). It had been stored in the refrigerator for a couple of months. While I did make a starter, I suspect my pitching rates were low and the yeast pooped out.

I did rack onto the 3944 cake. You are all right to point out that I will now have characteristics of both strains of yeast (and possibly further characteristics due to sexual yeast production). I can live with that rather than bottling 1.036 beer, but I agree with the main points above.

After 6 days in the fermenter at 70 F, I am down to 1.026. I have bumped the temp slightly to 72 F and plan to forget about it as long as possible.
 
I was following JZ's recommended fermentation schedule for a triple -- 63 F pitch followed by a gradual ramp to 70 F over the course of the first week of fermentation. After two weeks in the primary (with potentially unstable temperatures) the krausen had fallen and fermentation had ceased (based on consecutive hydrometer readings).

Wow. Does JZ really recommend this temp profile? I would never think that I disagree so strongly with JZ on anything. But I do. These temps would not serve to produce any esters at all. None. Might as well pitch 1056 or S-05.

In that case you probably did no real disservice by racking onto the other cake. You might have gotten some nice complexity into the beer.

I do like the recipe. Maybe the spice in it is why JZ eschews ester production. I tend to rely on the yeast to get spice notes into my Belgians.
 
Wow. Does JZ really recommend this temp profile? I would never think that I disagree so strongly with JZ on anything. But I do. These temps would not serve to produce any esters at all. None. Might as well pitch 1056 or S-05.
From Brewing Classic Styles
The best results come from pitching the yeast at a lower temperature, in this case 64 F, and letting the temperature rise slowly through the course of the fermentation. It is important to let the temperature increase (or to increase it though heating) throughout fermentation to ensure good attenuation and a dry-enough finish...
[For the Strict Observance Tripel]
Pitch yeast at 64 F and let the temperature rise slowly to 70 F over the course of 1 week. When finished, carbonate the beer to approximately 3 to 4 volumes and allow to lager for one month at 45 to 50 F.
I do like the recipe. Maybe the spice in it is why JZ eschews ester production. I tend to rely on the yeast to get spice notes into my Belgians.
The recipe is not JZ's. It is from Midwest's site. However, the yeast strain I used is the same as JZ's. I agree with you on the ester profile from a given strain. I remember when I first tried Maudite I thought I tasted orange and so I assumed it must have orange peel added. Then I brewed with some Belgian strains and now I think it may not have any orange added at all, it might just be the yeast.

Incidentally, I tried the sample I took and it tastes really good. However, now I know what people mean when they talk about hot alcohols. Wow, its like brandy or something. Does that go away with age?
 
The alcohol definitely ages out and becomes one of the best parts of it. No bite just warmth.

Yea, you could swear there is some pepper and orange peel in my dark strong and there nothing but malt and hops.
 
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