Im Going Electric!
- Thread starter Melvin
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Basically yes. I dont even care about the PID. A pot is all I really need. I dont mind looking at thermometers and such. I also dont care about lights. On the high gravity website they have what I am talking about and charge 250 dollars for it. I think that that is way steep for something so simple.
Thanks.
Thanks.
bigljd
Well-Known Member
If you are adding a herms you are going to want a PID to control the HLT water temps.
Here
http://www.stilldragon.com/basic-controller.html
and
Here
http://www.stilldragon.com/element-guard-kit-and-adapters.html
The cheapest and easiest that I have found online.
http://www.stilldragon.com/basic-controller.html
and
Here
http://www.stilldragon.com/element-guard-kit-and-adapters.html
The cheapest and easiest that I have found online.
That's the thing. It's more than a pot with an off/on switch and an element if you want to do HERMS or anything else. You'll need a PID for that. And if you're doing a PID, you might as well do a PWM for the BK because your probably don't want/need a 100% power always on or always off element depending on the size of the element.
A control panel is really nice. Mine isn't automated at all, but GFCI is required and then having a switch or two for the pumps and a PID for the HLT is handy.
True, but if he is like me, automation doesn't matter much since I am pacing around sipping on beer as I brew. I watch the temps and turn the knob as required, much like I did when I had a flame under the kettle.
Old habits die hard I guess. I'm too old to be retrained anyways. I did have an Auber PID, but sold it to another guy wanting to build an ekettle.
Old habits die hard I guess. I'm too old to be retrained anyways. I did have an Auber PID, but sold it to another guy wanting to build an ekettle.
Yes, but you need the "knob" to turn!
I have a PWM (a knob) for the BK but I love the PID for the HLT for the HERMS. With an HLT, you could use a Johnson Controller and set it for the desired temperature and not need a PID for it. That's what I did in my first electric build, and it worked fine. But because with a HERMS, you need a set temperature (and not "boiling" or "not boiling" like with a BK), some way to maintain the temperature is required.
Interesting...
If you get the right PID there is no need for the 'knob' or a PWM.
The right PID has it all with the push of a button.
Just saying. (I've done lots of diagrams for a setup similar to Melvin's needs.)
On the other hand, I don't do builds for hire either.
If you get the right PID there is no need for the 'knob' or a PWM.
The right PID has it all with the push of a button.
Just saying. (I've done lots of diagrams for a setup similar to Melvin's needs.)
On the other hand, I don't do builds for hire either.
conpewter
Well-Known Member
I wish it was as simple as a cord, an element and a pot, but unfortunately you need a way to control the boil. Boiling at 100% either boils the wort right out the top... or it takes an hour to get up to temp (all depending on your element). I like having a simple system, but even then I have PID in it so that I can set the HLT to a certain temp, and then switch over and use the same PID to control the boil (on manual mode). I have a 30 amp plug to power it all since I like having the 5500W elements so I can get up to boil in a reasonable amount of time. In the end $250 sounds nice depending on what all it really includes.
Well said & my sentiments exactly.
That's really what I was trying to say- 100% "on" or "off" doesn't really work. It doesn't matter exactly HOW that happens, but some control is needed. I've seen simple Johnson Controllers, PWM controllers, and PIDs and they would all work. But something is needed to control the HLT or boil (or both, depending on the system).
Once these get popular here, these threads will be much easier to answer.
Variable control, with a potentiometer, and this component http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Solid-State-...104?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item231f5d6270
Variable control, with a potentiometer, and this component http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Solid-State-...104?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item231f5d6270
Yoop,
Did you see the contoller I linked to? It has a knob.
If I have to step mash I use my decoction kettle, so that minimizes some of my drinking...
I did see it. That is pretty much what I am looking for.
I am well aware that on and off dosen't work. Thats why I need the POT. Why could I not have a herms and manually adjust?
If any of you would like to offer me a box at a reasonable price please PM me. Like I said I have money and I am more that willing to sit and babysit my kettles while Im brewing with a simple POT setup.
My reason for wanting electric isn't the Bling aspect. Its less expensive then propane and that is what I am after.
Melvin,
you can manually adjust a HERMS, just the same with electric as adjusting the burner on your flamethrower. 100 dollars and done.
This gives electric control the same as the burner did when you moved to electric. If you want to get fancy, then spend the bux.
you can manually adjust a HERMS, just the same with electric as adjusting the burner on your flamethrower. 100 dollars and done.
This gives electric control the same as the burner did when you moved to electric. If you want to get fancy, then spend the bux.
That is exactly what I was thinking. And I dont want to get fancy. I just want to brew good beer. I dont need a 3000 dollar setup to do that. In the end we all have beer.
I actually love sitting and watching my thermometers and such. Makes me fill important. haha.
Is this the same one you use? Can I see how you have it set up? THanks!
Im_Lars
Well-Known Member
Melvin PM sent. I think I maybe able to help you.
I was just thinking about an ultra-simple electric set up.
Even less expensive would be to build a couple of heatsticks. You could start with two (to get to a boil) but then remove one to maintain the boil. That would mean not needing 220, and not needing a PID or PWM. I didn't do the math (but I'm sure many have) but I would think that two 1500W heat sticks could give you what you want. And later on, if you do want something more involved, the heatsticks could still be used. Just a thought!
Even less expensive would be to build a couple of heatsticks. You could start with two (to get to a boil) but then remove one to maintain the boil. That would mean not needing 220, and not needing a PID or PWM. I didn't do the math (but I'm sure many have) but I would think that two 1500W heat sticks could give you what you want. And later on, if you do want something more involved, the heatsticks could still be used. Just a thought!
bigljd
Well-Known Member
Hmm, didn't think anyone would actually enjoy fiddling with a knob during the entire mash to maintain HLT/herms temperatures (I just set my PID temp, recirculate the mash, and go in the house for a sandwich for 45 minutes). But if that's what you want, there's a good thread on how to build a PWM here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/pwm-show-us-how-221301/
Power the PWM with a 12VDC power supply, and run the PWM output to an SSR with a heatsink to control the element cycle. Add a 30 amp switch to be able to shut off power to the element and put it all in a box and you're done.
I just added a PWM to my panel to control the boil (instead of using the PID manual mode). The PID manual mode worked fine for me, but I was bored and wanted a project, so I built a PWM. You can check it out here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/m...-pid-ssr-build-281085/index5.html#post4232969
Have fun!
EDIT: And don't forget the GFCI breaker or spa panel.
Melvin,
I got your PM and I've put together a simple diagram for you that would be fairly easy to implement.
As always - Click on the image to see a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")
The PID, SSR, heat sink and the controller box can be sourced from Auber Instruments.
Hope this helps.
P-J
I got your PM and I've put together a simple diagram for you that would be fairly easy to implement.
As always - Click on the image to see a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17")
The PID, SSR, heat sink and the controller box can be sourced from Auber Instruments.
Hope this helps.
P-J
PJ, Could I replace the PID in your diagram with a Dragonstiil Potentiometer and ssr? Thx
http://www.stilldragon.com/diy-controller.html
http://www.stilldragon.com/diy-controller.html
You could do that - I do have a couple of concerns though. The SSR in your link does not state the type as a SSVR model that is required for rheostat control. You might want to ask the vendor. Second, how will you control the HLT temperature without a PID?
P-J
I just don't get it. You want to get into electric and "you have money". Most of the folks here are advocating a minimum of one PID/SSR which provides both throttling of the element power and the ability to input a target temperature. The upcharge on the PID from the SSVR is the price of one batch of beer and is much more functional. While you COULD sit there and watch an inline thermometer on the output of the HERMS coil and tickle the knob on your HLT element control, it's not practical. It's certainly not worth saving $30 or so.
When you say you HAD a PID do you mean you had one in the box on the work bench and decided not to implement it or that you brewed on it for while and decided it wasn't for you?
I have been using a RIMS system with a PID, RTD sensor and a ssr for years. I have had good results. However, I want to convert the rest of my system to electric. Those 3 items from Auberins are approximately $100. Water and wort temperatures are easy to control with a Potentiometer for a fraction of the price. Once the wort comes to a boil in the bk,Turn Potentiometer up or down to control the boil. In the hlt, when I use propane I would shut the burner off and sparge after my temperature was reached. I have had no problems in the past controlling my temperatures with propane burners. As of P-J's question, The manufacture said that it is a ssvr. I would never leave my system while it was running and my hlt has a thermometer installed in it. As of Bobby M question, I'm not rich nor poor. I enjoy building things and all gain brewing. I think tickling a Potentiometer knob would be no different than tickling a propane knob? Hlt temps and bk temps are not rocket science. RIMS temperatures need to be a little more precise. As of the price difference, I would save approximately $85 going with the Potentiometer and ssvr rather than the pid, rtd and ssr. I can brew a lot of beer with $85. P-J thank you for your response. I'm going to try a Potentiometer set up with your diagram. Also, Bobby M thank you for input.
Given thr overall cost of an electric herms system, I found thr Aubr PID to be really affordable. I use one pid in manua mode to boil and the same one in auto mode to mash. Its the little things you do not think of that really add up. Fittings wiring ductwork fan ... Doing a simple all grain aystem is super cheap. Doing an e-herms is not about cost.control it is about convenience and repeatability
I agree that for a BK control, a dedicated PID barely has any utility unless you consider a digital temperature readout to be enough of a benefit. However, the function of a PID in an HLT is probably worth it for all but the most stringent budgets. I've overshot strike and sparge temps on my manually gas fired HLT in at least half of the batches I've done. Get distracted for 5-10 minutes and there you go. Instead, set the PID and it doesn't matter if step away for 30 minutes. True, a PID with type K is going to run you about $60 over the cost of the SSR (which is a wash if you're planning for an SSVR anyway). Now, for $60, you get setpoint control and wire in an alarm that you've reached the temp if you care about that. Now that you have the PID, you can reassign it's function over the boil kettle as PJ's diagram shows to get manual control without buying a separate SSVR. You also get the benefit of precise duty cycle control whereas an SSVR's phase angle control is nowhere near linear based on the knob position.
Another way I look at it is, once you go electric, a PID is a small cost upgrade when you compare it to the connectors, heavy gauge wires, high current GFCI, elements, kettle hardware, etc.
Another way I look at it is, once you go electric, a PID is a small cost upgrade when you compare it to the connectors, heavy gauge wires, high current GFCI, elements, kettle hardware, etc.
