Cider smells/tastes like vinegar

I got 5 gallons of already fermenting cider from a local farm for free. Mixed 2lbs of dark brown sugar and some honey into it and threw it into a carboy with some liquid cider yeast. Oh boy did it ferment. I put this together 11/24 and it is still bubbling away.

Just checked my gravity though and its at 1.020. And it smells/tastes like vinegar. What can I do? I would wait it out, but I really want to free up some of my carboys. Will this taste go away or should I just dump it?

well it's way early to even be thinking about tasting the cider your not even done fermenting. the taste could be a sign of oxidation but like I said it's WAY to early to judge.

A true "vinegar" taste won't get better. It's caused by acetero bacter, a bacteria that eats alcohol and turns it into vinegar. If you've used an airlock during the process, though, that's not very likely.

Cider does taste very tart, especially when very young. My concern is that the free cider was free because it was contaminated with wild yeast or bacteria, and it wasn't airlocked at that time. I assume you used no campden tablets or sulfites to kill wild yeast and bacteria, so you've got a wild fermentation going.

Some people have very good luck with wild fermentations, and like the results they get. It might improve quite a bit. My guess is that it will not, however.

YooperBrew said:

A true "vinegar" taste won't get better. It's caused by acetero bacter, a bacteria that eats alcohol and turns it into vinegar. If you've used an airlock during the process, though, that's not very likely.

Cider does taste very tart, especially when very young. My concern is that the free cider was free because it was contaminated with wild yeast or bacteria, and it wasn't airlocked at that time. I assume you used no campden tablets or sulfites to kill wild yeast and bacteria, so you've got a wild fermentation going.

Some people have very good luck with wild fermentations, and like the results they get. It might improve quite a bit. My guess is that it will not, however.

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hmm. you got me thinking now Yooper. I too made a cider, but i didnt use any sulfites or campden tablet in mine. now, it seems the difference between me and the OP here is (and i'm assuming here) that i did a full boil before pitching. won't this just ferment like any ale with my method? i don't have the patience for wild fermentation.

sorry to derail the thread or anything, but maybe my post helps.

I saw your other post about pitching dry yeast directly into your cider. No offense, but I suggest that either you buy a book or read more on these forums before brewing.

fineexampl said:

hmm. you got me thinking now Yooper. I too made a cider, but i didnt use any sulfites or campden tablet in mine. now, it seems the difference between me and the OP here is (and i'm assuming here) that i did a full boil before pitching. won't this just forment like any ale with my method? i don't have the patience for wild fermentation.

sorry to derail the thread or anything, but maybe my post helps.

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Yeah, if you boiled the cider, or otherwise pasteurized it (chemically with sulfites, or example), then whatever yeast you pitched would be the fermenting yeast in the cider.

I'm concerned because the OP said he got some cider that was already fermenting, and that is a sure sign of wild fermentation. Like I said, some people have had good luck with fermenting with wild yeast. But if the cider was contaminated with a "bad" yeast or bacteria, or acetero bacter, the cider yeast pitched wouldn't outcompete it. If the cider farm was simply an apple orchard, there could be a decent chance that the cider is ok. If the farm was an actual farm, with farm animals and other crops, there could be a very real chance that the fermenting yeast and/or bacteria wouldn't be the desired strain.

Teromous said:

I saw your other post about pitching dry yeast directly into your cider. No offense, but I suggest that either you buy a book or read more on these forums before brewing.

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i'm 95% sure you don't mean me? i didn't pitch dry yeast.

YooperBrew said:

Yeah, if you boiled the cider, or otherwise pasteurized it (chemically with sulfites, or example), then whatever yeast you pitched would be the fermenting yeast in the cider.

I'm concerned because the OP said he got some cider that was already fermenting, and that is a sure sign of wild fermentation. Like I said, some people have had good luck with fermenting with wild yeast. But if the cider was contaminated with a "bad" yeast or bacteria, or acetero bacter, the cider yeast pitched wouldn't outcompete it. If the cider farm was simply an apple orchard, there could be a decent chance that the cider is ok. If the farm was an actual farm, with farm animals and other crops, there could be a very real chance that the fermenting yeast and/or bacteria wouldn't be the desired strain.

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oh good. i was pretty sure, but didn't know for certain. i thought i did though and confirmation means i got that todbit down pat.

Acetobacter can eat sugar as well as alcohol, and if the apples were starting to rot before they were pressed there is a good chance of having acetobacter and botrytis. You won't normally get vinegar from primary fermantation. apple acid is malic acid and though it is very tart it doesn't have much odour. Vinegar is called volatile acidity (VA) in the trade because it has a fairly strong smell. If it smells of vinegar it probably is and won't get any better.

Teromous said:

I saw your other post about pitching dry yeast directly into your cider. No offense, but I suggest that either you buy a book or read more on these forums before brewing.

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Actually, I've been brewing quite a awhile. I got these instructions from a wine store. It said no need to hydrate yeast, but I should have anyways. I usually work with liquid yeast.

I have pitched dry yeast directly into the wort many a time and never with a problem.
I have also re-hydrated and "bloomed/proofed" the yeast before and never with a problem.
I have also made massive starters and never with a problem.
So much depends on the brew being made, and the yeast to make blanket statements and dismiss people out of hand. There are many ways to make good beer's, ciders, etc. Not all of them are the same as yours.

As to the OP, if it really is a vinegar taste, I don't think it will get any better. Sorry, that is a pain.

YooperBrew said:

A true "vinegar" taste won't get better. It's caused by acetero bacter, a bacteria that eats alcohol and turns it into vinegar.

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I'm going to have to agree. I made an experimental batch with a balloon as an airlock and it turned to vinegar. At first I thought it might age and get better... Only got worse. If it truly tastes like vinegar, dump that crap.

Teromous said:

I saw your other post about pitching dry yeast directly into your cider. No offense, but I suggest that either you buy a book or read more on these forums before brewing.

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I pitch dry directly all the time. Why not be more constructive and contribute to the thread instead of just bashing a poster?

thbbbbbbt.

IMO< the fact that you got it "already fermenting" is a sign that it's probably been fermenting in the wild, and with a chance of acetobacters (esp. if it was from a apple/cider farm). Only time will really tell, so just wait and see.

Teromous said:

I saw your other post about pitching dry yeast directly into your cider. No offense, but I suggest that either you buy a book or read more on these forums before brewing.

Click to expand...

EdWort's Apfelwein recipe calls for pitching dry yeast and folks on these forums have successfully brewed over 15,000 gallons of that stuff. I've made a few batches and I pitched my yeast dry and it worked just fine.

Thanks for the advice guys. I saved a couple growlers of this to keep as apple vinegar. The cider was still fermenting before I removed it from the carboy. I plan on loosley keeping the cap on the growler and keeping it cold to stop fermentation. Is this a bad idea? Are the growlers going to explode?

I just had the same experience. I got 15 gallons from a local orchard. I put it in three different carboys and added different ingredients to all three. The one was actually from the Apple Bee (Woodchuck clone) recipe from here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/apple-bee-woodchuck-clone-90276/. I just took this out bottled it and then tasted the last bit. It is horrible and has clearly turned to vinegar. I can't figure out what went wrong though. I used good cider and ingredients, airlock, sanitized etc. I heated the cider to kill the natural yeast.

Does anyone have any ideas what went wrong? Now that I have cider does anyone have any idea how I should use/store this?

Thank you for any help in advance.

Well, I ran into a slightly different vinegar problem with one of my ciders. Here is the history. I started with 5 gallons fresh pressed cider that I ground and pressed. I then added 1.5 pounds honey and .38 pounds molasses (that's all I had in the cupboard). The honey and molasses were heated to make more pourable, then added them to a pint or so of the cider to make it easier to mix into the rest of the fresh cider. I then added 5 campden tablets and let it sit for 48 hours. I pitched my cider yeast and let it ferment for 7 days, then racked it onto a yeast cake from a regular cider, that had just finished a 7 day MLF with the malolactic enzymes. I let this cider do it MLF for 7 days, then racked to the secondary. I let it sit for 3 weeks then moved it into a fridge to crash chill it, to get as much sediment out of the cider. I then drew off a couple cups of cider and heated it to disolve 1.75 pounds of Dememera sugar to back sweeten the cider. I did NOT boil this, just heated enough to get the sugar to disolve. Once this cooled I racked the cider on to it in a keg, and kept it in a water bath with ice bottles, at 25 psi. It was ready for drinking/bottling in 2 days. It was very tasty, and a lot of my friends really enjoyed it.

Here is where my problem starts. I only had a few bottles left, and wanted to save them for a while. It has been bottled and in the cellar for about 8 months and has started turning into vinegar. I was going to enter these in a homebrew contest, but fortunately I decided to taste one first.

I'm not sure what went wrong. I did not use campden tablets and sorbate after crash chilling it. I am wondering if I should have boiled the dememera sugar before adding to the rest of the hard cider.

Any comments ??

On a side note, my plain hard cider has gone funky too. It was just the fresh pressed cider with no sugars added at all. The same steps were followed as the cider above. Now I have a sediment layer with what looks like moldy type fingers extending up the sides of the bottle. I will try to take a picture tonight. One bottle tasted OK, but another was super over carbed, and gushed about half the bottle out when I opened it.

Thanks