Pumpkin Bourbon Dubbel

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ChasidicCalvinist

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I am pretty excited about this but before I brew it I wanted feedback. My main concern is the rice syrup solids--I've never used those. Is the amount I'm using enough? Can you brew with only rice syrup solids?

5 Gallon Batch

4lbs sugar baby pumpkin
4lbs rice solids
5 cups light brown sugar
8oz molasses
8oz maltodextrine

3 cinnamon sticks
2 ½ cups raisins
2 TBSP cloves
1 tsp pumpkin pie spice

Directions

Peel and seed pumpkin and cut into 1 inch cubes. Toss in bowl with 1 ½ cup brown sugar. Place in 325 oven for 60 minutes.

Steep pumpkins (minus 2 cups) at 149 for 40 minutes, stirring every 10 minutes. Strain the pumpkin mixture out

Bring to boil.

Add rice syrup solids, molasses, maltodextrine.

1oz Hallertau at 60

Cloves and cinnamon sticks at 60

At 30 minute mark add 1 cup of roasted pumpkin

At 30 add .25oz Saaz hops

At 30 add raisins

At 1 minute add .5 oz hallertau

At zero minutes turn off heat and add sugar, stir to dissolve.

Strain into primary and pitch yeast

Once in bucket add 1 tsp pumpkin pie spice and other cup of roasted pumpkin

Bottle with 2 cups bourbon and 1 cup maple syrup.
 
You should be fine with rice syrup solids. It tends to finish fairly dry but your inclusion of maltodextrin should help with that. The brown sugar won't do much in the way of flavor. I wouldn't take it out. I'm just informing you that it won't play into the flavor profile. Your base "malts" are pretty fermentable. Again the maltodextrin will help but I might add a pound or two of roasted grain. I'd just add all of the spices with 5 minutes left in the boil or at flameout to preserve the flavor. I'm wondering why you're including 2 tablespoons of cloves. That seems like a lot!!!! Most pumpkin recipes I've seen call for 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon. They're a pretty potent spice. These are just my thoughts/ suggestions. Feel free to ignore of follow any of them as you please. Maybe someone can chime in.
 
The spices (minus the pumpkin pie spice), the pumpkin roasting method and the brown sugar all come from Brooklyn Brew Shop's GF Pumpkin Dubbel. I'm open to suggestions. I'm excited about it because I LOVE fall flavors but I want something that is well balanced with not one of the flavors being too over powering. I had been wondering about the cloves too...especially since I only have ground cloves and I didn't really want to go buy whole ones.

So you would add the cloves and cinnamon sticks with 5 left? I'm wondering what flavor the raisins would actually add too. I may end up leaving those out.
 
I disagree, I think brown sugar absolutely contributes to the flavor profile. I used some in my take on a British bitter, and it added a sort of gingery spice to it, kind of like what the molasses adds to New Planet's Off-Grid pale ale. It'll be spot-on in a pumpkin beer.

Goodness, though, if you're using ground cloves, 2 TBSP is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much. Your tongue will go numb, I guarantee it. Whole cloves fill up way less of a spoon than ground, and add way less flavor to the boil, so I'd dial it back to no more than a teaspoon. Maybe more like 1/2 a teaspoon, added at 5 minutes. The cinnamon sticks (you are using whole sticks, yes?) can certainly be added at 60 min, you'll get better flavor extraction that way, and unlike many aromatic herbs, you won't lose the cinnamon flavor due to boil-off of aromatics. In Chinese medicine, many formulas use cinnamon, and I can tell you that after a 2-hour boil (Chinese herbs are usually boiled for 1-2 hours and then drunk) there's still plenty of cinnamon flavor left in the liquid.

The general rules with adding herbs and spices to a beer: if it's a powder, it goes in at 5 minutes. No exceptions. If it's a flower or leaf with a delicate aroma, it goes in at 5-10 min. If it's an aromatic seed or a berry, and it's crushed, it goes in at 5-15 min. (less time for peppery stuff, more time for juniper berries). If it's a flavorful (but not too aromatic) seed or berry, it goes in at 30-60 min. (caraway, cumin, cloves--you don't want a lot of clove aroma usually--fennel, etc.). If it's a root, a stick, or a whole hunk of something and it's not ground, it should go in at 30-60 min--fresh ginger, cinnamon stick, any of the roots (licorice, burdock, sarsaparilla, sassafras, gentian, dandelion, etc.) all fall into this category. This is because hard plant matter with little surface area makes it harder to extract the good stuff.
 
Out of curiosity...how does bottling with bourbon affect the ABV. Better question would be how do you measure the increase in ABV?
 
I'm not sure if bottling with bourbon affects carbonation, but 1 cup of maple syrup seems like a bit too much sugar. Assuming your beer was fermented at room temperature, it takes 3.5 oz of dextrose to carbonate 5 gallons of dubbel to 2.15 volumes of CO2, which is within the style guidelines. 3.5 oz by weight equals approximately 100 grams. 8oz of maple syrup contains about 190 grams of sugar, so you'd be adding an extra 90 grams of sugar. Maybe bottling with hard alcohol changes this, but otherwise I'd reconsider how much maple syrup you're using.

Personally, I'd leave the raisins in. They'll absorb some fluid, but they'll add some complexity to the beer.
 
This is awesome feedback, exactly what I needed. Thanks!

To address a few points:

I will be using whole cinnamon sticks so I will keep those at the 60 minute mark.

I will go ahead and use the raisins. Maybe I'll eat those afterward?

Nearly all of my beers have been overcarbed. 1 cup of maple syrup came from the brewshop recipe but I can scale it back to 1/2 cup of maple syrup.

Also, how does 1/4 teaspoon ground cloves at 5 minutes sound?
 
1/4 tsp should be fine, considering you're adding 1 tsp of pumpkin pie spice to the recipe. I recommend using a priming sugar calculator, like the ones at Northern Brewer or TastyBrew. That's what I do, and I've been pretty satisfied with how my carbonation has come out on most batches.
 
So I have completely redone this recipe. I've removed the pumpkin and replaced them with oats soaked in maple syrup. I'm also dry-hopping .25 oz of Saaz. I will be brewing this on Friday.

Autumn Bourbon Ale

5lbs oats
4lbs rice syrup
5 cups light brown sugar (convert)
8oz molasses
6oz maltodextrine
1.5 oz hallertau
.5 oz Saaz
3 cinnamon sticks
2 ½ cups raisins
¼ tsp ground cloves
1/8 tsp all spice
1 tsp pumpkin pie spice

Directions

Coat oats in 1 cup maple syrup. Roast in oven until medium dark.

Steep oats at 149 for 40 minutes, stirring every 10 minutes.

Bring to boil.

Add rice syrup, molasses, maltodextrine.

1oz Hallertau at 60

Cinnamon sticks at 60

At 30 add .25oz Saaz hops

At 30 add raisins

At 5 minute add ¼ tsp of ground cloves

At 5 minute add 1/8 tsp all spice

At 1 minute add .5 oz hallertau

At zero minutes turn off heat and add sugar, stir to dissolve. Strain into primary and pitch yeast.

Once in primary add 1 tsp pumpkin pie spice, .25oz Saaz hops

Bottle with 2 cups bourbon and 1/2 cup brown sugar
 
What yeast are you planning to use? I was thinking...
WYEAST STRAIN: 3522 | Belgian Ardennes

Or something in that family.
 
Does a gluten free beer like this end up tasting like its barley-based ale counterpart? My wife is sensitive to gluten and I've been wanting to brew up something gluten free for her, and this might just be perfect.

Thanks,

Trace
 
It certainly can, if it is done right. I've made several that friends liked so much they requested to take some samples home with them. I've also made some pretty bad ones. But the whole world of GF is experiment: trial, error and success.

I haven't had a chance to taste this since I just bottled it a day or so ago. If you do make it do three things: USE 5lbs of oats at least. The brown rice syrup only (What I ended up making) comes out very thin. I'd also use 1lb of lactose or 1lb of maltodextrine. Finally, only use 1 cup of bourbon. I bought Wild Turkey Honey Bourbon and it tastes great and goes well with this beer, but 1 1/2 cups of bourbon (what I ended up using) still comes through a little too pronounced. I want the bourbon flavor, but I wanted it to be just slightly more subtle.
 
I agree on the Cloves. Might be a translation error there (I have the book, not looking at it now though ((PS, great book for ideas and small batch creativity!)) good buy.) as 2 spoons of whole clove is nice, 2 spoons of powdered clove would numb the mouth of a horse. I have two questions on the back of this. I'm trying to make a Harvest Wheat due to well, I got a great deal on some still fresh wheat all components and I'd like to use them. BUT!! I want to change it up and add sweet potato, pumpkin, craisins and wild rice to the grains for a flavor change. My questions are as follows:
1. How much grain should I remove in a 5 gal batch recipe to add this in? I was thinking about 20-25%, but I don't mind making the beer strong. (For fall/winter, it is desirable.)
2. Making things from wild rice, and not having wild rice flake, do I just boil it like I would instant rice to gelatinize it and then add it in the mash?
3. Planning on adding spice as well: cinnamon sticks, clove, all-spice powder, fennel on the pattern above. Has anyone ever added this to a wheat beer?
4. The syrup, molasses and maltodextrin...I'm assuming this is relative to a dubble and not needed in a wheat style brew?
5. While I'm slapping the style in the face, I plan on dry hopping this and floating some craisins in it for about 4-5 days in secondary. Any thoughts?

PS -- my first all grain 5 gallon batch btw. Batch sparging in used equipment I need to test for water leakage, so if that changes anything...fire away.
 
I'm not sure if you'll find many answers to your questions regarding brewing with wheat since this is a gluten free forum. That being said, the syrup, molasses and maltodextrin--I'm pretty sure molasses is in the brooklyn brewshop book, but the syrup and malto are because it is a gf beer and we have to rely on some other adjuncts since we can't use barley, rye or wheat. I'm afraid I'm not much help on your other questions.
 
ChasidicCalvinist said:
I'm not sure if you'll find many answers to your questions regarding brewing with wheat since this is a gluten free forum. That being said, the syrup, molasses and maltodextrin--I'm pretty sure molasses is in the brooklyn brewshop book, but the syrup and malto are because it is a gf beer and we have to rely on some other adjuncts since we can't use barley, rye or wheat. I'm afraid I'm not much help on your other questions.

Ahh, well, sorry. Followed a link from another discussion. Crap.
 
I am looking to brew a GF pumpkin Belgian Dubbel Beer but I have had little success brewing good GF beers. How does this recipe look for a 2 gal batch

2 gal
2 lb rice syrup solids
1 lb brown sugar
0.20 maple syrup
0.2 maltodextrine

0.4 hallertau 60 min
0.2 sazz 30 min
0.2 liberty 10 min

1.5 sticks Cinnamon sticks 60 min
1/8 tsp cloves 5 min
1/8 tsp all spice 5 min
¼ tsp Pumpkin pie spice primary
Safbrew-wheat beer yeast WB-06


Should I add Sorghum or anything else?
 
I would steep 1lb-2lbs of oats or other GF grain prior to the boil for body and some more complexity of flavor. I also don't know if Safbrew-wheat beer yeast WB-06 is GF--it certainly doesn't sound like it. Some non-gf beers are okay in larger batches but in a 2 gal batch that might be a risk. The seasoning looks good. I'd up the pie spice to 1/2 tsp though.
 
surprisingly enough, the WB-06 is GF, something about dry yeasts are and I think I will add 2lb of GF oats. Would it be worth stepping up the recipe to 5 gallons? I would just hate to brew a 5 gal batch that is doomed from the start.
 
tflew said:
Out of curiosity...how does bottling with bourbon affect the ABV. Better question would be how do you measure the increase in ABV?

((Volume of beer * ABV of beer) + (volume of liquor * ABV of liquor)) / (volume of beer + liquor)
 
I don't have any rice syrup, and I won't have a chance to get to the brew shop this week. Is there an obvious substitute that I could pick up at the grocery store?
 
surprisingly enough, the WB-06 is GF, something about dry yeasts are and I think I will add 2lb of GF oats. Would it be worth stepping up the recipe to 5 gallons? I would just hate to brew a 5 gal batch that is doomed from the start.

Yeah I would leave it at 2 gallons at this point.
 
looks like an interesting recipe! i've never brewed GF before and have been meaning to try. some questions though:

1--is this all done on the stove top? if so, how big of a brew pot did you use (5 gal?)
2--what should the target OG/FG be?
3--what type of yeast did you use?
4--for the brown sugar did you use a "sugar in the raw" style or just plain ol' brown sugar (el cheapo grocery store style in the bag)
5--the original plan was for a pumpkin dubbel, is that still the goal or did you change it all together?

finally, have you had a chance to try it since it's been in the bottle, if so, how'd it turn out? looking forward to the feedback!
 
This has been in the bottle 7 days so I haven't tried it. The feedback I can give you from 2 samples taken prior to bottling:
1) Don't dry hop the saaz. The saaz hops overpower the spices and seasoning. It has a great aroma but you can't taste the spices. If I wanted that aroma I'd buy a candle from yankee candle shop.
2) I don't have a target og/fg--I don't own a hydrometer. I know they aren't much. Mine broke and I haven't messed it. I'm not that "scientfic" with my brews--and that is not meant as a cut on anyone else.
3) I used S-33--which tackles question #5. It is supposed to be an "Ale" but with that yeast probably isn't--but it was the only yeast I had on hand except for lots of wine/mead yeasts that I didn't want to use.
4) I think it was giant eagle brand dark brown sugar.

The samples were very good. From what I have heard bourbon beers need 6-8 weeks to mature in the bottle which would totally defeat the purpose of drinking this in the fall. Oh well.
 
I'm going to re-brew a variation of this--1 gallon.

This is a 1 gallon, gluten free experimental batch
1lb roasted pumpkin steeped
8oz of roasted pumpkin seeds steepd
8 oz Rice Syrup solids (60 min)
8 oz Sorghum (60 Min)
.3 oz EKG (60 min)
.8 oz roasted, chopped walnuts (30 min)
4oz Brown Sugar (flame out)
2oz Molasses (Flame out)
8 oz Maple Syrup (flame out)
After one week in primary I will add 1 oz of bourbon pumpkin spice extract.

S-04 yeast

Extract: 2.2oz of honey bourbon ½ Tablespoon of pumpkin spice gelling together.
The point of this is two fold: 1) I want the spices to come through in these beers. It doesn’t seem to matter when I add them to the boil, they disappear. But in my meads they come through—however, the spices soak in the mead for a long time.
The other point is to experiment with nuts and seeds some more—but no grain. I’m trying to see what is added by different ingredients—hence 1 gallon.
 
Hey Calvinist. Any update on the first or second brews? Very curious I hear how these taste.
 
The first batch--the 5 gallon one--is still coming into its own. I had some a few nights ago, it is okay. I think it needs a long time to mellow in the bottle.
The other one I haven't brewed yet. I have been out of town most of the week and looking ahead, between work and Thanksgiving, I don't anticipate brewing this until the end of November.
 
I just bottled the second iteration of this recipe posted by ChasidicCalvinist. The only modification was that I also put the pumpkin in, roasted as described in the original recipe. This is my first GF beer.

At bottling, it tasted a bit... agricultural? I'm talking a strong grassy, earthy flavor. I'm not sure where that is coming from. Hopefully it will go away with time. Has anyone gotten this in a beer before?
 
I think the earth tones comes from the saaz hops--I've never used them before so that is a guess though.

This beer gets much better with time. I read somewhere that bourbon beers need 6-8 weeks to mature in the bottle. That is proving to be true. Give it time, it'll get pretty good. I opened one tonight and I couldn't believe how good it tasted.
 
I think the earth tones comes from the saaz hops--I've never used them before so that is a guess though.

In this case, I don't think it is the Saaz. I use them a lot (went through 2+ pounds last year) and have never tasted this specific taste before. I was concerned that I may not have roasted the pumpkin long enough.

In any event, I will definitely let this sit in the bottle for a while. I've got quite a backlog to get through before I can open this batch. :)
 
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