Blichmann Engineering "set-it-and-forget-it design" Auto Sparge?

willynilly said:

Arent all high end kettles 304 SS? False bottoms? Three piece ball valves... ??

The autosparge will last longer than any of us keep our rigs, I am sure.

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Yup as 304 is easy to deep draw or form. This is why DeLorean used 304 SS to stamp out the body parts. When I mentioned vinagar i'm talking about concentrated at 200 to 230 grain, burns on arm like battery acid.
This for food processing canning companies. Vinagar is like gasoline, if there is the slightest crack or place to leak it'll leak vs the same test with water it holds. In these old tanks I would go inside after being washed out at the same location the tanker is parked then with an altimeter and industrial Shop Vac pull doen to 4,000'. With soapy water spray look for bubbles in suspected leak areas around the tanks frame supports. Later grind out and Tig weld. This was an on going process as vinagar was slowly eating away these 304 tanks. A 6,400 gallon custom made 316 tank was the replacement at $74K 6 years ago. They used 304 bolts to mount the 3" off loading pump, they failed within 3 years, talking 1/2-13 bolts rotted away. A nasty product this high grain vinagar is but a great weed control makes Round UP look like weed food. A 1/2-13 steel bolt will be rotted in half within 3 months. Also works great on "A"-holes with custom aluminum alloy wheels after they burned rubber in your neighborhood for months. Also great with a "cold joint" adding cement to old before the pour plus eats old concrete to expose the sand. Instant lawn killer also plus etches glass or windshields when needed.

So, 304 is perfectly awesome for HBing then

Yup! Not a problem with the pH during brewing we're dealing with.
BTW 300 grain the pH is 2.0 @ 30% acetic acid (calculated), rather strong.

After re-reading the entire thread, and wondering if this would work with a Brutus setup, I come to the conclusion that, YES it will work when connected to a March Pump, though I would wonder if it might shorten the life of the pump due to the restricted outflow (trickle flow? or zero flow) when float valve is fully closed.

Since probably more than a few folks are using this AutoSparge device, can anyone care to comment on how they like it and how it works in a Single Tier steup (like a Brutus) in conjunction with a Pump.

Also, still wondering if GilaMinumBeer would post some links to his $20 solution - he's got thousand of photos posted it appears, impossible to search through.

Thanks!

TD

TrickyDick said:

After re-reading the entire thread, and wondering if this would work with a Brutus setup, I come to the conclusion that, YES it will work when connected to a March Pump, though I would wonder if it might shorten the life of the pump due to the restricted outflow (trickle flow? or zero flow) when float valve is fully closed.

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March will run all day with the output fully shut off. That's the whole point of mag drive pumps.

Just a bit confused. A member a few posts up indicated that this device was for fly sparging, while the website eludes to batch sparging. I was about to order the kettle with the option installed--i will be batch sparging...am I ok?

While you can definitely batch sparge through it...I'm fairly certain it was designed for fly sparging as it is basically a float valve you set so you don't overfill your MLT.

That being said...I have mixed feelings on mine.

On the one had it does help me dial in the flow in for fly sparging...but on the other hand if say a stuck sparge happens, the valve never seems to close to the point that it STOPS the flow...it will still trickle out.

I tested it on my cleaning last week. And while I could physically force the valve close by pulling up the float...when the water floats it up it doesn't seem to seal it "all the way"

So I'd say rather than set it and forget it...it's set it and keep it in the back of your mind

FenoMeno said:

Just a bit confused. A member a few posts up indicated that this device was for fly sparging, while the website eludes to batch sparging. I was about to order the kettle with the option installed--i will be batch sparging...am I ok?

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This device was designed for the fly sparger. It is designed to keep an amount of sparge water above the grain bed dependant on the flow out of the mash tun into the boil kettle. Most fly spargers keep an inch or two above the grain bed.

I've been using mine since January on my Brutus clone. I decided to stop using the float as it doesn't close fully as others have said. Instead I just set my flow rates with my 2 pumps. My other complaint is during the mash recirc, it seems to create a hot spot where the end of the tube sits on top of the mash. I might try securing the tubing to the float arm to direct the wort at the ball to spread the return out more.

FreebootersBrewing said:

I've been using mine since January on my Brutus clone. I decided to stop using the float as it doesn't close fully as others have said. Instead I just set my flow rates with my 2 pumps. My other complaint is during the mash recirc, it seems to create a hot spot where the end of the tube sits on top of the mash. I might try securing the tubing to the float arm to direct the wort at the ball to spread the return out more.

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I am a RIMS brewer and I started this thread shortly before I got mine and never experienced a hot spot because of the tubing.

Sawdustguy said:

I am a RIMS brewer and I started this thread shortly before I got mine and never experienced a hot spot because of the tubing.

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Every batch I've done with the autosparge, I'll stick my Thermapen into the mash below output of the tube and the temp is my setpoint +/- 1 degree. If I take a reading at the oppposite side of the kettle it's usually lower by about 2-4 degrees.

I'm not sure why this happens. Maybe recircing faster to distribute the hot wort more evenly would work, but I'm afraid to compact or disturb the top of the grainbed.

I'd gladly welcome any thoughts on this.

I'm a DIY guy, not because I want to spend less (whenever I do it myself I always spend more because of trial and error) but I love the satisfaction of making my own stuff. I looked around a lot on the web and found a couple parts on Grainger that will replicate the autosparge ($34.86 before tax):

3/8-in brass float valve by Watts: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/3P936
1/4-20 2-in steel float ball by Naugatuck: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4LTH3

I expect that once you buy a couple silicone o-rings, washers, bolts, an adapter for the tubing and a float it will come out to about the same price as the Blichmann model.

-ben

I am in the testing phase now of my Brutus clone and have a Blichmann Autosparger installed.
I'm curious if anyone else has mounted the device into the lid vertically instead of horizontally into the side of the kettle? I hate the idea of punching another hole in the side of my MT.
I hooked mine up this way and it seemed to be okay, it's just that it leaks from the body. I think I need to work with the adjustable arm a bit more and maybe adjust the pump to a slow trickle.

To solve the 5 gallon versus 10 gallon batch issue, I just ordered a longer stainless steel all-thread from McMaster-Carr to extend the ball further into the kettle.
Any input is appreciated.

I don't get the point. It's not that demanding to pour/scoop sparge water, is it? And if you don't accurately measure your amount of sparge water, you might end up over/under spargeing. I rather spend my money on usefull gear!

it isn't designed for batch sparging...but rather fly sparging

I know, but even with fly sparging I rather keep an eye on it and do it manually. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Catt22 said:

I don't see any means to adjust the water level with the Hartford loop arrangement. I suppose you could fit a tube inside a tube with some kind of a compression fitting to seal the joint. This would allow you to vary the height of the overflow weir to control the water level.

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there have been a few references to the hartford loop arrangement on this thread ,i've never heard of them before so hopefully someone can explain this to me.
maybe i'm missing something but once the water level reaches the tee and it starts to overflow are you not then just increasing the speed of the sparge?
unless you returned the overflow to the hlt i suppose,i like my wort in the kettle though.
maybe it could be arranged to return hot water of the top of the grain bed?hmmmm

martinworswick said:

there have been a few references to the hartford loop arrangement on this thread ,i've never heard of them before so hopefully someone can explain this to me.
maybe i'm missing something but once the water level reaches the tee and it starts to overflow are you not then just increasing the speed of the sparge?
unless you returned the overflow to the hlt i suppose,i like my wort in the kettle though.
maybe it could be arranged to return hot water of the top of the grain bed?hmmmm

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Once the liquid level reaches the level of the tee (weir), the flow rate out will match the flow rate of the incoming sparge water so long as the mash is free flowing and not stuck or partially stuck There is still the potential for an overflowing MT in that case.. The Hartford loop will only work for a gravity flow system. I pump out of the MT to the BK, so it won't work for my application.

I really don't have a problem matching inflow and outflow, but I have been thinking of trying one of these float valves so I don't have to keep a close eye on the sparge:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/4WXV6?Pid=search

I have not seen anyone use this type of valve before, but I see no reason why it wouldn't work. Yes, I see that it's only rated to 150F, but that's at 100 psi too, so I don't think that's a plan killer.

Maarten said:

I don't get the point. It's not that demanding to pour/scoop sparge water, is it? And if you don't accurately measure your amount of sparge water, you might end up over/under spargeing. I rather spend my money on usefull gear!

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It's just another level of automation. My whole system is automated using a brewtroller. I want to concentrate more on the recipe now. If I come up with a good recipe I like, I would like to repeat as closely as possible. Automation affords me that repeatability. The only other variable left would be grain.

Maarten said:

I don't get the point. It's not that demanding to pour/scoop sparge water, is it? And if you don't accurately measure your amount of sparge water, you might end up over/under spargeing. I rather spend my money on usefull gear!

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Actually it is that demanding. Try brewing a 12 gallon batch sometime with your pour/scoop method. You want to do it slowly for one thing which prolongs the labor considerably. I never bother to accurately measure my sparge water. I sparge and collect the run off until one of two things happens. I either collect enough wort for my pre-boil volume or the gravity of the run off drops below 1.010. The latter normally does not happen. I can't say that it has never happened, but it's been a couple of years since the last time, so for me it's pretty much a thing of the past. An auto-sparge type float valve is absolutely not a necessity. I get along fine without one, but having one frees you up to do other things instead of hovering over the mash tun for upwards of an hour. It's really not that bad, but you do need to check on it frequently while doing the run off. I'm thinking about installing a float valve of some kind, but I'm also in no big hurry to do so.

sideshow_ben said:

I expect that once you buy a couple silicone o-rings, washers, bolts, an adapter for the tubing and a float it will come out to about the same price as the Blichmann model.

-ben

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From Grianger web site, it says the total before s&h come to 38.73. eh?

But yeah, that's about right. Blichmann AutoSparge sells for an extra $11, but it is a much better design for a MLT than the one from Grainger (great site by the way... finally found 3 way SS ball valves!) The AutoSparge comes with a washer and nut for mounting to your HLT, and a hose with flotation device is already included. The autosparge has also been tested at Purdue University's mass spectrometer for lead content, and is well below limits required for water supply. The float ball looks a ton shinier than grainger's. I like my sparge balls very shinny.

I really like using the autosparge because the little floaty thing keeps the hose in nice spot, and does not move but a few kernels in the light whirlpool of water above the grain bed. I'm pretty sure its more adjustable as well. The ball can be placed +-7 degrees i believe. The teeth on one side of the rod holder are rotated one half tooth to give more adjustment. The risk of hot side aeration is significantly reduced because the wort flows directly back to the top of the wort in the MLT right at wort level.

Here's the boss talking about it. (can you believe we ruined a 20gal pot just for display purposes?)

DarkNoonBrewer said:

(can you believe we ruined a 20gal pot just for display purposes?)

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You guys should have some lexan placed over the opening and have water recirculating though it.

In the name of bling! Make it so!

DarkNoonBrewer said:

... I'm pretty sure its more adjustable as well. The ball can be placed +-7 degrees i believe. The teeth on one side of the rod holder are rotated one half tooth to give more adjustment.

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I realize this thread is about a year old.

I recently got an AutoSparge and had trouble adjusting it. On looking at it more closely, mine does NOT seem to have the teeth rotated by half a tooth.

Has anyone else seen this on theirs?

I took a pic and drew a line in as close to perpendicular as I could and the teeth appear straight across from each other to me. More importantly than the visual is that when I hold the 2 pieces together and then flip it over and hold them together they are still in the same position (which means the teeth aren't rotated).
Click image for larger version:
Float arm teeth



Valve lever teeth. Manual says float arm has the rotated teeth, but I took a picture of the valve piece as well.


Thanks.

I emailed John Blichmann and he said I have an older model (even though I bought it recently, go figure).

I was going to put a washer between the 2 pieces, but I didn't have a washer of suitable size on hand so I fabricated one using a dip-tube o-ring inside a post o-ring. Works great and I know it's food safe.

I'm not limited by the teeth now for positioning!

Pics (click an image for a larger version):
Exploded view


assembled view


Installed view (note that the cotter pin is just inserted to hold it together, not bent like it should be)


What it looks like in the cooler



Outside view showing quick disconnects to the autosparge and to the drain valve (with temp probe inline)