Perhaps Some Good News on the Horizon re: Grain Prices

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Evan!

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As many of you know, a big reason for the upcoming rise in grain prices is that many farmers are electing to switch their field over to corn, which in turn cuts the grain supply down and prices go up. The reason many have been switching is because good ol' Dub and the Congress have decided that ethanol is the future of alternative fuels...and thus, a great deal more corn subsidies are offered, alongside requirements that force refineries to blend a certain amount of ethanol into their fuels (which is, in effect, also a subsidy). I've been decrying this as BS for awhile now, given that ethanol fuel has a net energy loss after you factor in growing the corn and turning it into fuel...not to mention the environmental effects of increased corn production. But, as usual, the gubmint thought that they were smarter than the rest of us, and had to f*ck with the market.

Well, I'm not sure just how much Congress listens to "facts" and "science", but this article is encouraging nonetheless, especially given where it's coming from.
 
Interesting read, but I've figured out how to fuel my vehicle from spent grains - therefore I have to brew or I can't leave the house.
 
Of course Ethanol is a loss-

However if Corn was switched to Hemp which produes more and can be grown anywhere - Ethanol could be more viable.

However Ethanol is a lost cause and we should be looking for better alternatives like Hydrogen or pure electricity.
 
MikeFlynn74 said:
However Ethanol is a lost cause and we should be looking for better alternatives like Hydrogen or pure electricity.

Hydrogen production requires more oil than just running a car on gas.
 
...and "pure electricity" still has to come from some kind of fuel source. It doesn't just magically shoot out of your wall receptacles.
 
PearlJamNoCode said:
I think by pure electricity you were referring to wind and solar energy, which I agree with you.

I figured he was talking about full-electric cars, which still require a power source, most likely a municipal one that is likely fueled by coal.
 
people, most of the fad crap the government touts is pure BS being repeated by a bunch of people who don't understand the concepts....leading to...

-ethanol as our savior fuel
-stem cell research being effectively cut off from gov't funding
-the 'new' stem cell data released last week seeming like it actually is good when in reality, not so much
-terrorism being such a huge threat
-GM foods being thought of as 'dangerous'

anyone else want to add?
 
I could make a list a mile long.

  • Drugs are bad, mmmkay, and we need to spend trillions of dollars making sure people can't get high.
  • Prescription drugs are a scourge and we need to put doctors in prison for life if they don't prescribe drugs the way the government wants them to.
  • We need a nanny government to solve all of our problems like obesity and smoking and video games.
 
-ethanol as our savior fuel

It's not, but just like every other method of energy production, it is improving each year as more advances come about. I'm not yet willing to say that ethanol can't work once we can create it and distill it more efficiently.

-stem cell research being effectively cut off from gov't funding
It wasn't cut off, but it is being handicapped

-the 'new' stem cell data released last week seeming like it actually is good when in reality, not so much
That's scientists for ya!

-terrorism being such a huge threat
It's not a huge threat. It's never a huge threat.... until something bad happens

-GM foods being thought of as 'dangerous'
It's not dangerous to eat, just dangerous for the eco-system



There. Now that I've opened those cans of worms, I'm heading off to work. Have a good day, gentlemen!!!! :mug:
 
All the off-topic ranting aside, is anyone really surprised by the backlash against ethanol? I'm not.

Ethanol as an alternative fuel is good as far as it goes, but there is no way in hell we can ever produce enough corn to make enough ethanol to make it a real alternative.

All the signs were there that it would be a typical boom-bust scenario. I'm just sorry I didn't short corn futures 6 months ago.
 
I'm not surprised at the backlash, I'm just surprised it took so long for it to happen. Naysayers were all over this one back in its baby days, and they were right, but it's like nobody listened.
 
I don't think grain prices are going to improve any time soon. This quote from OP's WSJ article kind of explains:
{"But even though U.S. farmers this year planted their biggest crop since World War II, prices have stayed well above $3 a bushel, thanks to rising demand in developing countries and poor weather in some grain-growing nations. The price is expected to stay well above $3 next year as farmers shift some land from corn to two other crops whose prices have risen sharply, wheat and soybeans."}

Wheat prices are way way up. Major droughts in Australia/NewZealand have contributed to shortfalls in grains, dairy, etc. - notice the price of milk lately? Supposedly the asian market had a large demand and with the loss of the normally abundant Aus/NZ supply the US is seeing more of the worlwide demand rise, and thus higher prices.

Anyone ever see a drag bike that runs on ethanol? The fuel line is double the diameter - because it takes so much more fuel - the air fuel ratio is something like 6:1 vs 14.7:1 for gasoline. So unless the ethanol is 1/3 the price of gas (per gallon) then there's no savings for consumers. Ethanol is a giant dog-and-pony show and American consumers are being duped!
 
If we as a Nation are truely serious about reducing our dependence on foreign oil, then we will adopt sensible policies to promote demand-side conservation rather than throwing away billions of dollars on supply-side interventions like alternative fuels.

We can start today by enacting a national tax of $5 per gallon of gasoline.






(Just like Sir Humpsalot, I'll leave it to the rest of you to discuss. I'm outta here.)
 
Beerthoven said:
We can start today by enacting a national tax of $5 per gallon of gasoline.

You see the article in the NYTimes last week on this? interesting read. We could all also stop using so much gasoline...personally, my jeep hardly gets driven at all. I bike to work and run errands on my bike, and I get rides from people whenever I can for long trips (chip in of course).
 
What I meant by pure electricity is yes Wind/sun/water driven generators. Along with newer Nuclear technology which does not need enriched fuels- Coal and gas consumption could be cut drastically.

Did you know since the start of the Iraq war- 49% of all Oil used by the US is used by the US military.
 
Colorado

I wish we could do that here- I ride my motorcycle during the summer and spend 10-12 in gas a week. But the long winters in AK I have to drive my truck @ 75$ a week.

We produce our own Gas and Oil and yet we still pay way too much.

When I was in Kuwait- Kuwaities pay $0.25 a gallon for gas.
 
Beerthoven said:
Ethanol as an alternative fuel is good as far as it goes, but there is no way in hell we can ever produce enough corn to make enough ethanol to make it a real alternative.


You are correct about never being able to grow enough corn, but corn is not the only crop than can be used to produce ethanol.

A couple of quick google's shows us that orange peels can be used:
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=47788

as well as beer! (sort of)
http://www.flexnews.com/pages/10109/Kirin/kirin_build_pilot_ethanol_plant_using_spent_malt.html

Ethanol may not be the answer, but it is most definitely better than pumping all of our money overseas
 
Evan! said:
...and "pure electricity" still has to come from some kind of fuel source. It just magically shoots out of Cheese's a$$.

Did you go there?

Seriously though, this didn't say anyting about Barley coming down, just they were going to switch to soybeans. Or did I misread something?
 
It didn't say that it would definitely go down, which is why I titled it "perhaps..." But anything that punches a hole in the stupid ethanol bubble is positive in my book.
 
iamjonsharp said:
My perpetual motion machine puts ethanol to shame.

Pics or it didn't happen! :D

IMO as someone training to work in alternative energy, the largest energy issue facing us today is that of storage. Honestly it doesn't really matter what the car runs on--batteries, hydrogen, what have you--as long as there is an efficient, reversible process to create/charge that energy source (Ie using a clean energy source to charge batteries or produce hydrogen). The only reason liquid fuels (ie ethanol/oil/etc) are so wonderfully practical is because they have a terrifically high energy density, orders of magnitude larger than pretty much anything else we have. But if we can come up with a cheap, compact method of energy storage, liquid fuels are gonna become obsolete pretty quickly. I say that simply because running an electric vehicle off of grid power is about twice as efficient as an internal combustion engine, and the market will respond to such an opportunity.

But that's gonna require a pretty big leap in innovation; we're talking at least a 3x, preferably 10x increase in energy storage density before we can really see a real revolution in automotive energy. There are a few technologies progressing that look like they may be able to reach this goal (like a special matrix material that stores hydrogen at a density comparable to the gaseous state at 10,000 PSI), but they are no sure thing.

I'll end the rant here :p
 
To many people driving huge 4WD vehicles that get 10 mpg when they could be driving a decent sized car that gets 30 mpg. I got no problem with people that have a need for big ass 4WDs but I see hundreds of them every day 75% of them have one person in it driving 80 mph.
 
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