Making the switch, equipment question!

Hey everyone,

I apologize ahead of time for the abundance of these posts I'm sure you all get. I did use the search function, but there were SO many things to sift through that it all gets a little overwhelming

I'm taking the plunge, and I'm moving to AG from extract brewing. I've been brewing about 7 months, have 5 brews under my belt (one that was AG with a long-time home brewer) and want more flexibility and control in my brewing. I've got the space (brother's huge basement), a decent amount of money, and the time to do it. I have a basic starter kit, but my neighbor also has some brewing goodies too. I've got a couple carboys, a brew kettle I can borrow (although I'll have to invest in my own soon), I'll potentially a keggle. I'll need all the basics-- propane burner, all tubing, the mash tun, sparging equipment, etc.

I've been looking at kits like this: http://www.homebrewing.org/Beginning-Homebrew-All-Grain-Kit-Upgrade-6_p_1709.html

Is that everything I'd need to get going? I'd be able to brew with other people that do AG, so in terms of making sure I actually use it all correctly, that's no problem. I just need the equipment itself.

I know it's a huge question to tackle, so any bits and pieces of advice would be VERY helpful and greatly appreciated. Cheers!

That will get you going for 5 gallon batches with up to 13 ish lbs of grain

If you have already been doing extract then you should already have a lot of the things you need like racking canes, tubing, thermometers, hydrometers, buckets, etc. Really all you should need is a bigger kettle, say 15 gallon and a 10 gallon cooler to mash. For sparging you can batch sparge which is easier and quicker with really no discernible efficiency change (IMO).

The bigger kettle and bigger cooler will give you the ability to brew bigger beers with larger grain bills and even larger batches of beer. There are various propane burners out there depending on your price point. They all do the same thing but some operate more efficiently and quieter, hence, more expensive but they range from $50-150.00. As for the tubing and such you can usually find it at Home Depot or local hardware stores, it's really nothing fancy.

Your thermometer will be more important so be sure you get a good one and calibrate it as temperatures of the mash become very important. There are obviously a lot more things you can buy but none of them are really necessary, just toys...............cheers!

That is a great starter kit and will get you going just fine. The problems I see with it and maybe its not just in the pictures? None of the kettles have valves on them. You can of course move liquid without the valves, but is is move of a pain.

Also, I would echo the statement above that you will only be good for about 13lbs of grain in the mash. I am doing a 5 gallon batch of IRA today that has 17lbs of grain. Too small of a mash tun can limit your possibility if you want to do a really big beer.

I went the keggle route and am so happy with it. the Keg's 15.5 gallon size give the versatility to do just about anything you want

Other things you want to get:

Refractometer you can find them on ebay for like 20 bucks. Worth every Penny

Digital Cooking Thermometer. Amazon for 15 bucks These are great for mashing because you can set a temperature alarm. Need to heat your water to 163, just set the thing and walk away to do other jobs sanitising etc... it will beep when you are ready to go.

Nothing wrong with that kit, but for the money you can do better, if you're willing to do a little shopping\scrounging. Start with the very basics; LP Burner (brewing outside, electric heat source if you're brewing indoors), brew kettle big enough to do full boil (36 quart minimum, 60+ quart even better if your heat source can handle it), and a cooler (or two) for HLT\Mashtun(s) and a wort chiller(copper tubing from Lowe's\Home Depot and some garden hose repair kits). There are plenty of do it yourself tutorials here to show you the way, with lots of lessons learn\jump to the head of the learning curve so you don't make too many mistakes. That and many trips for hardware bits and you'll end up with a better (more functional\greater capacity) system for the same money or perhaps even less.

Keyth

IMHO, I would not buy the kit. How handy are you? A little or a lot? Do you have room to store a keggel? How much do you think you'll want to brew in a day? For joe brewer (most people) kits are the way to go. For real brewers, making the rig is half the fun and you save money making better stuff than you could buy. again IMHO

My brother is very handy and could easily help me make all this stuff. With that said, what exactly what I need to piece together in order to make a rig that is fully functional? Are there tutorials available too? Thanks!

Do you want the bare minimum to get into AG or do you want a expensive setup?

You could get 2 kettles, a 10 gallon cooler for a mashtun, a chair, and some high temp hose and be set. Or you could have pumps, herms coils, and electronics.

I wouldn't necessarily mind having some of the pumps and whatnot. I'll be brewing in his basement which is close to a number of water lines (next to the washer and dryer) and close to outside spigots, so at the very least I'd LOVE a Wort Chiller in addition to an aerator (and any other gadgets that would make brewing that much easier). Lets say my budget is around $400 bucks-- can I make a decent (non-mobile) AG brewing rig for that much money? I can make my own equipment too, so that's no issue. I definitely want the capacity to be able to do 10 gallon brews if need be, or HG 5 gallon brews. So I don't want bare bones, but I don't want to leave with bank account with dust! Thanks again for all the help HBT!

I went this route:

X2 (Mash & HLT) = http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...&langId=-1&keyword=water+cooler&storeId=10051

(Replacing the valve is very easy on the coolers)

X2 = http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=47&product_id=85
X2 = http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=128
X2 = http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=36_39_61&product_id=61

X1 (I batch sparge) = http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=47&product_id=96

X1 = http://www.homebrewstuff.com/15-gallon-kettle-w-valve-thermometer.html

x1 = http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009JXYPU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

That puts you about $450 (minus shipping) I have to lift the Mash Tun back & forth since I don't have a stand but it works and I get 70% effeciency consistently with this set up.

You gotta find a keg and install a 1/2"valve at the bottom. Now you can do brew in a bag!! You also need a burner to heat the sucker. From then on in life you will keep looking for stuff to add to make it better.

I wish I would have come across a kit like that when I started brewing.....Go for it!

dkziemann said:

I wouldn't necessarily mind having some of the pumps and whatnot. I'll be brewing in his basement which is close to a number of water lines (next to the washer and dryer) and close to outside spigots, so at the very least I'd LOVE a Wort Chiller in addition to an aerator (and any other gadgets that would make brewing that much easier). Lets say my budget is around $400 bucks-- can I make a decent (non-mobile) AG brewing rig for that much money? I can make my own equipment too, so that's no issue. I definitely want the capacity to be able to do 10 gallon brews if need be, or HG 5 gallon brews. So I don't want bare bones, but I don't want to leave with bank account with dust! Thanks again for all the help HBT!

Click to expand...

Going AG is well within your stated budget. Based on your posts (wanting to brew inside, willingness to invest sweat equity, DIY, interest in automation, pumps) you should read up on some of the electic keggles that have been built by members here (they use the heating elements out of hot water heaters, available from Lowe's\Home Depot, etc). Start watching Craig's list in your area for kegs...I just got three for $25ea (a week after I upgraded my brew kettle to 62 quarts ). I strongly recommend taking your time, just get the basic system up and running and figure out how\why things work before you advance to automation. You need to be able to heat water to mash, transfer the wort to a brewing vessel and bring that vessel to a boil, then cool your unfermented beer and transfer it to your fermentation vessel...that's it to start with. All the "stuff" we add to this is to make it easier, faster, or more consistent.

If I were starting from scratch (you've already got some stuff, carboys for fermentation vessels, etc) I'd find a keg for my brew kettle ($25~$50) and add a ball valve with screen\false bottom($30~$40). I would get a 62 quart Colman extreme cooler for $39 from Wal-mart for my primary mashtun and a 5 gallon round cooler from Lowe's\home depot for $20 for smaller batches or HLT for fly sparging (I have a 5 and a 10 and they trade rolls depending on what I'm brewing). there are plenty of walk through tutorials on how to convert the coolers to mash tuns\HLTs. I brew outside so I like the burners from Bayou Classic as my heat source ($50~$100)...since you want to brew indoors, again I'd investigate a hot water tank element electric setup. I posted earlier on how easy it is to make an immersion cooler(~$60) , which I highly recommend. Thats it.

Have fun,

Keyth

Thanks for all the replies everybody! Sorry for the delay in getting back to you all. I've been doing more research and think I MAY have figured out what I'm going to buy. Here's what I'm thinking (with some questions of course). Also, I just received a 15 gallon keg with the top cut off already.

• Keg, converted into a keggle with this fitting http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=46&product_id=178, the ball valve and a false bottom.
• http://www.nthomebrew.com/store/products/Igloo-Cooler,-10-Gallon,-Mash{47}Lauter-Tun.html
• http://www.nthomebrew.com/store/products/Blichmann-Auto-Sparge-Kit.html
Propane burner, immersion style wort chiller, more tubing, grain mill, refractometer, and that should be it. I've got carboys and some other odds and ends.

I can mash and sparge in the same container, correct? I've been told there's no need to buy 2 coolers when you can do everything in the one. Does this look like an okay place to start?

You should definitely build your own mashtun... you can do it for really cheap. Check out this site: www.donosborn.com/homebrew/mashtun.htm

This is what I used to build my own and it has worked great.

I'd second the build your own mash tun, but if you got the money to spare... the pre-fab ones are nice.

Only comment about not needing 2 coolers is where do you plan on putting your sparge water? I see a keggle which will collect the running from the Mash / Lauter Tun (yes you can sparge and mash in the same vessel) but where is that water coming from? Hence the need for 2 coolers (or another keggle you can put on a burner).

I like that sparge gadget (I like all gadgets), but for the cost of that one 10 gallon pre-made mash tun, you could have a 62 quart and a 10 gallon round (for use as a HLT). If you're brewing in a keggle, you're going to try making a double batch at some point and the 10 gallon mash tun might not be big enough (while you'd be hard pressed to exceed the capacity of the 62 quart cooler on a double batch).

Keyth

Ahh okay thanks for clearing up some misconceptions. So I could mash in the 62 quart cooler, transfer the wort to the keggle (and grains into the 10 gallon round cooler) and sparge in the 10 gallon cooler?

Nope, you mash in the 62 (unless you were making a small beer, then I'd use the 10...less air space...better temp control). You heat up your sparge water in the keggle and put that in your second cooler (whichever one that is based on what you're brewing) then you sparge from that into your mashtun, while you drain it into the keggle (which is now empty because your sparge water is in the second cooler). Here's a couple pictures of my gravity system when lautering a small beer and another while lautering a larger beer...

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa70/KeythL/Homebrewing/IMAG0121.jpg

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa70/KeythL/Homebrewing/IMAG0082.jpg

and finally my high tec fly sparge setup...

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa70/KeythL/Homebrewing/IMAG0125.jpg

HTH,

Keyth

So much to mull over! I think I got it-- sorry for all the questions, but you guys are an AWESOME resource! Here's my last bit and I think I'll have narrowed down what I need (not completely, but I'm on the right path).

For sparging water, I don't need a huge cooler, correct? I'd only need something around 5g? In addition, it does NOT need to be fitted with any special valve accessories--it can be just a plain igloo/rubbermaid round cooler?

For my mash tun: I'm planning on doing mostly 5g batches, but higher gravity beers (I LOVE IPA's and higher ABV belgians). I may do the occasional 10g batch as well, and chances are I'd be shooting for a higher alcohol percentage as well. Mostly, though, it's going to be 5g batches. Would it make more sense for me to get the 62qt cooler, or the 10 gallon igloo? I feel like the 10 gallon may be more convenient but offer less flexibility?

And just to make sure I'm on the same page, I only need TWO coolers, correct? One for mashing/sparging, and one to hold the sparge water? As I understand it, I heat up water in the keggle to mash with. While the conversion is happening, I heat up more water in the keggle for the sparging water and transfer that. After I drain the wort from the mash tun into the keggle, I sparge with both coolers and that ultimately gets transferred into the keggle. Is that correct?

Thank you all very much!

dkziemann said:

...For sparging water, I don't need a huge cooler, correct? I'd only need something around 5g? In addition, it does NOT need to be fitted with any special valve accessories--it can be just a plain igloo/rubbermaid round cooler?...

Click to expand...

You can definitely get started with just two coolers. I think a 5 gallon cooler for use as a Hot Liquor Tank (HLT), i.e. your sparge water, is going to be very limiting if your kettle is a 15.5 Gallon Keggle. You could do medium strength 5 gallon batches, but you'd be better off with a 10 gallon if you're only going to have two coolers for mashing and lautering and you want to do heavier beers. there's no way you could do a double batch with a 5 gallon cooler.

I'd add a braid and a valve to both my primary and secondary coolers from the get go(it only costs about $20 to convert a cooler) you can batch sparge without having a ball valve\braid on each but to fly sparge you really need to be able to control the flow rate on both.

If you don't already have a brewing software package, download brew mate (it's free) and run some sample recipes through it, it has a tool to calculate strike water and sparge water based on your target volume and grain bill. That will show you how limiting a 5 gallon cooler will be (of course 5 gallon coolers are dirt cheap so there's no reason not to have one...it makes making small batches easier).

Looks like you've got enough of an idea to get dangerous , have fun.

Keyth

dkziemann said:

So much to mull over! I think I got it-- sorry for all the questions, but you guys are an AWESOME resource! Here's my last bit and I think I'll have narrowed down what I need (not completely, but I'm on the right path).

For sparging water, I don't need a huge cooler, correct? I'd only need something around 5g? In addition, it does NOT need to be fitted with any special valve accessories--it can be just a plain igloo/rubbermaid round cooler?

For my mash tun: I'm planning on doing mostly 5g batches, but higher gravity beers (I LOVE IPA's and higher ABV belgians). I may do the occasional 10g batch as well, and chances are I'd be shooting for a higher alcohol percentage as well. Mostly, though, it's going to be 5g batches. Would it make more sense for me to get the 62qt cooler, or the 10 gallon igloo? I feel like the 10 gallon may be more convenient but offer less flexibility?

And just to make sure I'm on the same page, I only need TWO coolers, correct? One for mashing/sparging, and one to hold the sparge water? As I understand it, I heat up water in the keggle to mash with. While the conversion is happening, I heat up more water in the keggle for the sparging water and transfer that. After I drain the wort from the mash tun into the keggle, I sparge with both coolers and that ultimately gets transferred into the keggle. Is that correct?

Thank you all very much!

Click to expand...

If your going to fly sparge, then yes, two coolers would get the job done. If your going to batch sparge, you can get by with 1 cooler and 1 pot and 1 bucket.

KeythL said:

You can definitely get started with just two coolers. I think a 5 gallon cooler for use as a Hot Liquor Tank (HLT), i.e. your sparge water, is going to be very limiting if your kettle is a 15.5 Gallon Keggle. You could do medium strength 5 gallon batches, but you'd be better off with a 10 gallon if you're only going to have two coolers for mashing and lautering and you want to do heavier beers. there's no way you could do a double batch with a 5 gallon cooler.

I'd add a braid and a valve to both my primary and secondary coolers from the get go(it only costs about $20 to convert a cooler) you can batch sparge without having a ball valve\braid on each but to fly sparge you really need to be able to control the flow rate on both.

If you don't already have a brewing software package, download brew mate (it's free) and run some sample recipes through it, it has a tool to calculate strike water and sparge water based on your target volume and grain bill. That will show you how limiting a 5 gallon cooler will be (of course 5 gallon coolers are dirt cheap so there's no reason not to have one...it makes making small batches easier).

Looks like you've got enough of an idea to get dangerous , have fun.

Keyth

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the help! From what I've gathered, this leaves me with about 2 (probably plenty more) options for what I want to do/would be best for me.

1) Buy two 10-Gallon round coolers. Convert one into my MLT, using one of the conversion kits and either buy a false bottom or SS braiding. Make the second one my HLT for sparging. Buy a fly sparge setup, and sparge into my keggle.

2) Buy one 10 gallon cooler as my HLT, leave it alone, and convert a 62qt cooler into my MLT (with the same kit, probably using SS braiding). Batch sparge (since I wasn't able to find much information on fly sparging in a rectangular cooler) into the Keggle as before.

This may get into a debate of fly vs batch sparging. I've heard of a few drawbacks for both cases. Option 1 is great because of even distribution of the sparge water, but if I want to do 10 gallon batches or high gravity 5gallon batches, space might be an issue... correct?

Option 2 is great because of all the available space in the MLT, I save money on batch sparging, but the from what I read the efficiency may be lower, and if I do lighter 5 gallon batches the grain bed might not be deep enough. Also makes fly sparging harder if I did want to do that, correct?

At this point, I can get the equipment for option 2 at a lower price. Are these observations correct? What system do you think is better suited given all my prior posts?

dkziemann said:

Thanks for all the help! From what I've gathered, this leaves me with about 2 (probably plenty more) options for what I want to do/would be best for me.

1) Buy two 10-Gallon round coolers. Convert one into my MLT, using one of the conversion kits and either buy a false bottom or SS braiding. Make the second one my HLT for sparging. Buy a fly sparge setup, and sparge into my keggle.

2) Buy one 10 gallon cooler as my HLT, leave it alone, and convert a 62qt cooler into my MLT (with the same kit, probably using SS braiding). Batch sparge (since I wasn't able to find much information on fly sparging in a rectangular cooler) into the Keggle as before.

This may get into a debate of fly vs batch sparging. I've heard of a few drawbacks for both cases. Option 1 is great because of even distribution of the sparge water, but if I want to do 10 gallon batches or high gravity 5gallon batches, space might be an issue... correct?

Option 2 is great because of all the available space in the MLT, I save money on batch sparging, but the from what I read the efficiency may be lower, and if I do lighter 5 gallon batches the grain bed might not be deep enough. Also makes fly sparging harder if I did want to do that, correct?

At this point, I can get the equipment for option 2 at a lower price. Are these observations correct? What system do you think is better suited given all my prior posts?

Click to expand...

I agree that option 2 affords you the most flexibility and the lowest initial cost. I would still add a braid\valve to the round cooler.

Whether you end up batch sparging or fly sparging the goal is the same, consistency. Every setup is going to behave differently, and you simply need to learn your system by brewing a few batches. If you have 70% efficiency or 85% it doesn't really matter as long as you know what to expect and can adjust your recipes accordingly.

I hope you saw my fly sparge picture, it really is that simple, I have a spare false bottom that I use on top of the grain bed so the incoming sparge water doesn't disturb the bed, but I could have just as easily used a piece of aluminum foil and poked some holes in it. I simply match my flow rates and keep 1~2 inches of sparge water above the grain bed as I fill my boil kettle with the wort from the mash tun, when I get within a gallon (small cooler as mash-tun) or a gallon and a half (large cooler as mash-tun) of my pre-boil volume I shut off the sparge water. I'll need to re calculate this as I've recently upgraded to a 15.5 Kettle. Start out batch sparging, if you like your efficiency, stick with it, if you decide you need to tweak things, give it a try (round or rectangular cooler, false-bottom, manifold, or SS Braid doesn't really matter if you keep the flow rate so you don't disturb the grain bed, others of course will disagree vehemently).

Try not to get upset if you do find you've ended up waisting a little money because you bought something you don't use, hopefully my and other's advise will aid you in not buying something that doesn't work for your set up that you end up having to repurchase\upgrade just to get started.

Keyth

You have been more than helpful, and I think this answers everything! I need to send you my first all grain beer!!