Kokopuff829
Well-Known Member
Do you have to use DME for starters or could I use sugar or a substitute?
Yeast Starters
- Thread starter Kokopuff829
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
Technically sugar would work, but it's generally not advisable. When cultivating a starter, it's best to stick to feeding it something akin to that which you ultimately want it to be working on. Cultivating it with sugar can cause changes to the yeast itself and may result in poor attenuation, off flavors, etc. when compared to using DME.
Basically, don't do it
.
Basically, don't do it
.
Homebrewtastic
Well-Known Member
No. Definitely not. After two - three generations of eating simple sucrose yeast loses the ability to digest maltose. You'd basically be pitching inactive yeast.
LME
wort
wort
Kokopuff829
Well-Known Member
Well I figured it was no. I just asked so i might get a yes.
MazdaMatt
Well-Known Member
In the 8 batches of beer that I've done (newb), I've always started with sugar and never had inactive yeast.
It is amazing what you can get away with... conversely, it is amazing what I'm reading on this forum that you can't get away with, if you're willing to look at it like that.
It is amazing what you can get away with... conversely, it is amazing what I'm reading on this forum that you can't get away with, if you're willing to look at it like that.
Kokopuff829
Well-Known Member
MazdaMatt said:
Cool I brewing next week and I don't want to wait for a package a DME and have to pay. What are the consequences if I do this once and what Doe you guys use to keep it in besides a flask?
I make my starters in an old glass jug and use a stopper + airlock to treat it just as I would if it were a batch of my favorite brew.
If you have a local home brew shop go pick up some DME. Grab a few pounds of extra light to keep on hand to make starters with. Using plain old sugar for a starter vs making a simple wort with DME or LME is a bad idea. You may as well make no starter. I learned this first hand. I had horrible attenuation and had to pitch more yeast to finish it off.
If you have a local home brew shop go pick up some DME. Grab a few pounds of extra light to keep on hand to make starters with. Using plain old sugar for a starter vs making a simple wort with DME or LME is a bad idea. You may as well make no starter. I learned this first hand. I had horrible attenuation and had to pitch more yeast to finish it off.
Kokopuff829
Well-Known Member
Toga said:
Ok so your not with the idea of sugar either?
I think the consensus you'll ultimately get out of this is going to be that you can, but no one will recommend that you do so. If it's your only option outside of waiting for a new shipment to come in, go for it, just be aware that it can cause some attenuation issues. And for future batches, make sure to keep some DME on hand for starters .
.
I just love the one guy who gives you bad advice that you happen to agree with "II use sugar all the time yadda yadda yadda" is the one you listen to?
Why the hell do you waste our time then, and just do what you want?
Other people have given you the REAL REASONs why it's not a good idea, but that doesn't suit you.
Rather than simple sugar, or just jumping on the one that agrees with you, why don't you look on here for alternatives to waiting for dme, RATHER than using something that is not good for your beer? Because he agrees with you?!?
find the nearest Mexican grocery or even the nearest big box grocery store (like Meijer's) that has an "international foods" aisle and look for Malta Goya
Or Malta India
Quite a few people use it as a starter....It is pretty much just a lightly hopped, carbonated wort. Some people just stir it to release the co2, others bring to a boil and other's just bring it pasturizing temps. ANd then pitch the yeast.
There's a few threads on here about malta goya starters, both here and on other boards (google it)...and we even talked about it in the GAP (Grocery and produce challenge thread)
Another option is to have him head to a bed bath and beyond or even a big box store that might carry mr beer refill packs and buy one of them...he can use the can of LME as his starter extract.
But really why waste our time bothering to ask, is in truth all you're asking for is a rationalization for your bad brewing behavior???
Why the hell do you waste our time then, and just do what you want?
Other people have given you the REAL REASONs why it's not a good idea, but that doesn't suit you.
Rather than simple sugar, or just jumping on the one that agrees with you, why don't you look on here for alternatives to waiting for dme, RATHER than using something that is not good for your beer? Because he agrees with you?!?
find the nearest Mexican grocery or even the nearest big box grocery store (like Meijer's) that has an "international foods" aisle and look for Malta Goya
Or Malta India
Quite a few people use it as a starter....It is pretty much just a lightly hopped, carbonated wort. Some people just stir it to release the co2, others bring to a boil and other's just bring it pasturizing temps. ANd then pitch the yeast.
There's a few threads on here about malta goya starters, both here and on other boards (google it)...and we even talked about it in the GAP (Grocery and produce challenge thread)
Another option is to have him head to a bed bath and beyond or even a big box store that might carry mr beer refill packs and buy one of them...he can use the can of LME as his starter extract.
But really why waste our time bothering to ask, is in truth all you're asking for is a rationalization for your bad brewing behavior???
Kokopuff829
Well-Known Member
Revvy said:I just love the one guy who gives you bad advice that you happen to agree with "II use sugar all the time yadda yadda yadda" is the one you listen to?
Why the hell do you waste our time then, and just do what you want?
Other people have given you the REAL REASONs why it's not a good idea, but that doesn't suit you.
Rather than simple sugar, or just jumping on the one that agrees with you, why don't you look on here for alternatives to waiting for dme, RATHER than using something that is not good for your beer? Because he agrees with you?!?
find the nearest Mexican grocery or even the nearest big box grocery store (like Meijer's) that has an "international foods" aisle and look for Malta Goya
Or Malta India
Quite a few people use it as a starter....It is pretty much just a lightly hopped, carbonated wort. Some people just stir it to release the co2, others bring to a boil and other's just bring it pasturizing temps. ANd then pitch the yeast.
There's a few threads on here about malta goya starters, both here and on other boards (google it)...and we even talked about it in the GAP (Grocery and produce challenge thread)
Another option is to have him head to a bed bath and beyond or even a big box store that might carry mr beer refill packs and buy one of them...he can use the can of LME as his starter extract.
But really why waste our time bothering to ask, is in truth all you're asking for is a rationalization for your bad brewing behavior???
Ok I thought there might be other people who agree if you ask random people a question and they all say the same answer that doesn't mean it's the right I was just making sure. And I must not be wasting your time because if your time is so valuable then you wouldn't of posted on this thread or any threads and you would be spending your time somewhere else where it's not being "wasted".
What kind of recipe are you brewing? If it isn't high gravity (>1.060) and its fresh yeast then why not just skip the starter and pitch it out of the pack? Id do that before I'd make a starter with simple sugar...
Kokopuff829
Well-Known Member
jaycount said:
Ya but I'm always hearing about people pitching starters for the best performance. I'll probably just pitch out of pack anyways.
Why are so many of these from people from Ohio?
"head hung in shame smiley"
"head hung in shame smiley"
Kokopuff829
Well-Known Member
lou2row said:
oh io oh io!!!!
I dare you to ask whether there is any benefit to extended time in the primary.
Homebrewtastic
Well-Known Member
Yeah... let's not listen to the guy with almost 28,000 posts and has probably made more beer than you've ever drank. Instead listen to the guy who's made 8 batches because he does what you're hoping for
If you want to make a starter with simple sugar... go nuts. Just don't be surprised when you have under-attenuated beer.
Also +1 on the Malta Goya suggestion. I used to live in Waco with no LHBS and would use that for my starters.
Why do anything? I think Miller lite is on sale somewhere. Really, if you want to use sugar for your starter go ahead.
A couple weeks later you will be asking why your beer tastes like shti, but its still better than you can buy uptown.
No offense, either do or don't I don't care. Some of us are probably more passionate than others.
A couple weeks later you will be asking why your beer tastes like shti, but its still better than you can buy uptown.
No offense, either do or don't I don't care. Some of us are probably more passionate than others.
Someone out there will tell you it is okay to:
-use sugar for starters
-bottle in two liter clear bottles
-use bleach instead of buying star san
there is a difference between possible and recommended.
-use sugar for starters
-bottle in two liter clear bottles
-use bleach instead of buying star san
there is a difference between possible and recommended.
MazdaMatt
Well-Known Member
I gotta say... I've read about the concept of group-think developing on forums and I've seen it on exercise-related forums, but MAN is it strong in this place.
Guy asks if it is okay to do something less than recommended
Antoher guy says he's done it a bunch of times without failure but is a newb
Guy says, okay, cool I'll try that due to limited resources
Everyone $#!ts a brick.
You people have got to take things less personally and stop confusing "I've done it and it works" with "this is how you ought to do it".
What gets me is that it is later suggested that he just pitch dry instead of mixing up a little bit of sugar water to get things started and nobody has a problem with that... crazy.
Evaluate your level of group-think, people. There is more than black and white in this world. One is not stupid for doing slightly less than the best possible option in the world.
Guy asks if it is okay to do something less than recommended
Antoher guy says he's done it a bunch of times without failure but is a newb
Guy says, okay, cool I'll try that due to limited resources
Everyone $#!ts a brick.
You people have got to take things less personally and stop confusing "I've done it and it works" with "this is how you ought to do it".
What gets me is that it is later suggested that he just pitch dry instead of mixing up a little bit of sugar water to get things started and nobody has a problem with that... crazy.
Evaluate your level of group-think, people. There is more than black and white in this world. One is not stupid for doing slightly less than the best possible option in the world.
MazdaMatt
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, also had to make note that Coopers recommends sanitizing with bleach and they've been responsible for more homebrew and more professional brew than this entire forum combined.
Again... not saying it is the best, just saying that you don't need to ostrisize people for doing it.
Homebrewtastic
Well-Known Member
::facepalm::
That being said the newb was offering bad advice. Just because he "does it all the time" doesn't mean it's actually working properly. I wouldn't be surprised if he is making under-attenuated beer.
Aside from that it's hard not to be frustrated when someone poses a question, is given solid advice from seasoned brewers, and then completely ignores it because one other person on the forum decided to agree with him and give him the answer for which he was hoping.
And yes. One is stupid. Making starters with table sugar is stupid. There are plenty of gray areas is brewing, but science isn't one of them. It is a fact that if you make a starter with sugar you are making lazy yeast. And when making starters yeast health is always more important than quantity. So pitching strait from the vial instead of from a half assed starter is definitely the more advised option.
Kokopuff829
Well-Known Member
Ok everybody I get it I'm sorry I can be a little lazy and stubborn but there's no need to drag on about it. I get it it's not good to make starters with table sugar.
