Advice on two batches for tomorrow

A couple friends and I are making a 10 gallon batch to ferment in a keg we got and a 5 gallon batch we're going to do in bucket primary/carboy secondary and I'm looking for advice to make these outstanding brews.

The 10 gallon batch will be boiled in 2x7.5g pots and mixed together in the keg once cooled before pitching yeast. The recipe is as follows (this is for one 5 gallon batch.. we'll be making two of these):
9lb liquid pale malt extract
1/2lb crystal 20L
1/2lb crystal 40L
1oz chinook for the entire boil (60min)
1oz cascade @ 30min remaining
1oz cascade @ 15min remaining
cool down to ~75, mix the two batches in our keg fermenter then pitch yeast (made a 2 gallon starter on wed of 2lb DME and 1 vial white labs california ale). I intend to use about half of the starter yeast in this batch.
1.066 OG, 1.015 FG, 58.8 IBU, 0.896 IBU/SG, 6.65% ABV

The 5 gallon batch will be a full boil as following:
12lb liquid pale malt extract
1/2lb crystal 20L
1/2lb crystal 40L
2oz chinook for the entire boil (60min)
1oz cascade @ 15min remaining
1oz cascade @ 0min remaining
cool to 75, rack into primary bucket and pitch the other half of the starter yeast.
1.087 OG, 1.019 FG, 78.2 IBU, 0.987 IBU/SG, 8.90% ABV

My starter isn't fermenting as vigorously as I had hoped but I'm thinking this is probably due to the small volume of sugar (this is my first starter) as compared to a 5 gallon full batch. I hope it'll be enough to ferment both these batches thoroughly. I've never made a high gravity beer before.. any advice so we don't end up with 5 gallons of sweet, flat beer? Any advice on changing the hops schedules at all or just general critique? Thanks a lot -Bob

Bob -

I think both of these qualify as higher gravity beers (anything over 1.06 I think is what White Labs uses). So, if you're concerned about your starter, maybe you need to add a couple more vials (this isn't as good a solution as making a bigger starter, but it sounds like you don't have time for that?)

Good luck!

Pappers,

Thanks for the quick reply. We're trying to keep the costs down a little bit.. one of my friends has a pack of some champagne yeast we were considering pitching into the 5g batch. Would it be a mistake to pitch some dry yeast in at the same time we pitched our starter? The starter has a good layer of yeast on the top maybe ~2" today that wasn't there yesterday so I think the yeast is actually doing alright and perhaps the airlock isn't as active as I'm used to simply due to the smaller volume? We're gonna have a 0.5 micron air stone so we can bubble some pure O2 into the wort this time and I'm hoping this will give the yeast the boost it needs to ferment all that extra maltose. Still, if you think we're gonna be short on yeast and miss our FG by a lot I'd rather spend an extra $15 on yeast and make 15 gallons of good beer than skimp out.. Thanks again. -Bob

Sorry, I have no idea, really - if you think the starter is going great, then it will probably be fine. There is a starter calculator at the Mr. Malty website, if you wanted to try to use it to figure out how big a starter you need to divide it up.

And I don't think its an issue of the yeast not doing the job if you underpitch, but rather taking some time to mutliply before it starts doing the job.

Also I've never used champagne yeast, but I think it is very highly attenuated, leaving you with an extremely dry beer. But others here might be able to give you a definitive answer.

Have fun tomorrow!

thanks again Pappers.

so.. bad news (?) my starter has completely stopped bubbling.. about 50 hours total time. I lifted the lid to check and all of the yeasty foam on top is gone. Still ok to use for a starter?

Starters can be done in 50 hours or less so you might be alright with it. My guess is that you might be a bit short if you are going to split it between the batches. Can you get some US-05? A couple of packets ought to do the 10 gallon batch pretty well.

Blender,

First, I love Santa Cruz. Second, I'm not sure if I can get safale US-05 but if I can (or a suitable replacement) do I just pitch it straight out of the packet into the wort or do I need to make a starter with those also?

Straight into the wort - easy peasy! No need to make a starter, because dry yeast has a much higher cell count than liquid yeast.

Starters don't usually bubble as much as a full batch. You just don't have as much yeast as a 5 gal batch will at it's peak. If you have a good layer of yeast, I bet it will be just fine. Maybe upload a pic?

santacruzbob
How did everything go? I was out of town yesterday so couldn't reply.

Thanks guys. We ended up slightly modifying the recipes a little bit. the 10 gallon batch got all of the starter yeast I had and had an OG of 1.070 corrected. the 5 gallon batch actually ended up to be about 6 gallons and had a somewhat disappointing OG of 1.081. We got a vial of the white labs super high gravity yeast and pitched that straight into the primary.. took a little bit longer than the keg but both are going nuts right now. I've got a blowoff tube on the bucket and it's bubbling about twice a second (only pitched about 20 hours ago.. we got a late start). The keg is bubbling 4-5 times per second in the airlock.. it's crazy. I'm having some problems regulating temps and they're both in the 76*F range right now but I've got some ice blocks freezing.. hope the flavors won't be off too much

The final recipes were-
10 gallon batch fermenting in keg:
18lbs pale liquid malt extract
1lb 20L crystal
1lb 40L crystal
2lb two row
2oz chinook @ 60min
1.5oz amarillo @ 15min
1.5oz amarillo @ 7min
2 gallon yeast starter with the weak beer poured off. 1.070 OG

5 gallon batch in primary bucket:
12lbs pale liquid malt extract
0.5lb crystal 20L
0.5lb crystal 40L
1lb two row
2oz chinook @ 60min
1.5oz amarillo @ 15min
1.5oz amarillo @ 7min
1 vial WLP099 super high gravity yeast. 1.081 OG

Well a least you know that if you got the 5 gallon batch down to 5 gal instead of 6, your OG would have been pretty close to your projected. Good job

Gremlyn,

I'm flying down to san diego tomorrow for vacation. any breweries you recommend me checking out while I'm there? going to be staying in ocean beach area

santacruzbob said:

Gremlyn,

I'm flying down to san diego tomorrow for vacation. any breweries you recommend me checking out while I'm there? going to be staying in ocean beach area

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Are you going to have a car? If so, then you aren't far from the Ballast Point Brewery/LHBS. It's a little messy in there as they are remodelling and they only sell beer to go, but it is some good beer and cool guys at the bar (usually). OB has a few good beer spots, one really popular pizza joint with the motto of 'No crap on tap'. I'll have to look up the name for you, but definitely worth checking out. You've also got a Gordon Biersch restaurant/brewery not far (in Mission Valley), decent food and beer, a little pricey though. If you've got time to make the journey, Stone is about 40 mins north. We also have a few Karl Strauss locations to choose from, I like the one in Sorrento Mesa the best, which is right off the 805 at Mira Mesa Blvd. And finally, a new favourite of mine is the Blind Ladt Ale House, they do 'gourmet' pizzas and have a great selection on tap (DT, Victory Speedway Stout, etc), that'll be about 15 mins east of OB. If you need more detailed directions to anything, shoot me a PM.

From what I could see of the Stone brewry it would be worth the 40 mile trip. Im thinking it's a lot like heaven on earth there

sub-zero said:

From what I could see of the Stone brewry it would be worth the 40 mile trip. Im thinking it's a lot like heaven on earth there

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Stone fresh from the tap is quite heavenly. The food is good, albeit a little over priced.

thanks for the info. I'll run it by my buddy I'll be staying with and let you guys know where we tasted when I return. Hopefully 9-10 days in the primary will be ok for my brews?

I do 3-4 weeks, so I think 9-10 days will be fine

just racked the bucket into a carboy. smell isn't great but it tastes decent (although a little bitter). gravity was 1.020 which works out to about 8% abv right now. going to be racking the 10 gallons in the keg out into a couple primary buckets, getting yeast samples then washing out the keg for the secondary. Brew shop doesn't open til wed but I think the plan is 1.5oz cascade in the carboy and 2oz cascade in the keg unless anyone thinks we should do it differently. Had a great time in SD. went to the no crap on tap place a couple times and made a trip to Stone last wed.. the place is great. everyone needs to make a pilgrimage.