First Cider Batch - Looking for feedback

Hello HBT, this is my first post.

I attempted my first hard cider in the early part of November. I used:
3/4ths of a gallon of unfiltered, pasteurized apple juice (I have lost the label so I'm not 100% on the brand)
1 pound Maine blueberry blossom honey
1 table spoon brown sugar
Safale - 05 yeast.
topped off with water.

I let it ferment for 4 weeks, with regular bubbling for the first 2 weeks. Bottled from there and put in the refrigerator.

Much to my dismay when I poured a bottle a week later, it was water and flavorless. I have talked with my friends and the person who gave me his recipe, but we can't figure it out.

Any thoughts? I appreciate the input.

How much is (topped off), you could have just plain watered it down.

My first batch has a very light taste. I think it's pretty good but feedback from others say it needs something. Could it be the apple juice was kinda bland to start?

From what it sounds like to me, it seems that your apple juice may have contained preservatives.

Personally, I prefer to use apple cider instead of apple juice just because it is easier to find preservative-free cider in the local grocery store.

It is always a good idea to save the labels. I know on our farm we save every label from every bag of seed for 1 year after harvest. And the varieties are written down in our official datebook.

So my suggestion is, try the recipe over with new apple juice/cider, and make sure it does not contain any preservatives (Potassium Sorbate being #1).

Nevermind...misread your post.

@ HopHead209 - Topped off to a gallon so roughly 1/4th of a gallon. The gentleman I got the recipe had a lot of success with his recipe, but this could certainly be the culprit.

@ MarkKE - I made sure to try the juice before hand, and it certainly tasted pretty sweet. But I don't really drink sweet beverages so a little sweet seems like a lot. I'll keep an eye for this next time around as well.

@ KemP130 - I do know it was preservative free, pasteurized and unfiltered. I was conscious of the issues of preservatives when I was shopping around. This is one of the reasons myself and the person who shared his recipe are so perplexed. Is there any benefit to using cider over juice besides the ease of locating it?


Thanks for the great feed back everyone, I appreciate it.

If you are using a 1 gallon glass jug to ferment, when the fluid is at where "ONE GALLON' is on the side of the jug, that is one gallon. Filling to there with juice and additional sugars will leave enough headspace. If you had 3/4 gallon of juice, and topped off to or above this line with water, you use way too much water.

In primary fermentation it isn't necessary to top off anyways, as the Co2 will force any air out of the jug.

I do not know if there is any advantage to cider over juice, but I always enjoyed drinking cider as compared to juice.

Actually I had a similar result using an entirely different & supposedly proven approach:
In my case I used a 23 litre Blackrock Cider kit based on apple concentrate from New Zealand grown apples. Basically I followed the recipe except the specified 1 Kg of cane sugar which was to be added, I replaced with 1/3 Dextrose & 2/3 dark brown sugar, IE 1Kg total added fermentables.
The fermentation was a bit slow, but when it started to clear I siphoned into my keg adding 1.5 litres of supermarket bought (no preservative) apple juice. The reason was my wife said she would like it a bit sweeter. Tasted after 10 days, force carbed & like the poster I have a watery result. In other respects its OK, clean tasting, good colour, some apple flavour, a little hazy still, & perfectly drinkable, but in no way memorable.
If this is a commercial kit result, it's below the standard that most brewers would consider acceptable.

Does sound strange.

Topping off with 25% water would definitely water down the taste pretty heavily.

You said it was “water and flavorless” ... I assume you mean by water that it also had no apparent alcohol.
Did you take SG readings? My first thought was that you may have just had a very weak ferment that dragged out and essentially stalled ... and then you stopped it completely.
Nutrients? Apple cider and honey are not known for their nitrogen.. But you said it did appear to ferment ... you should have at least some residual sweetness and/or alcohol.

As far as alcohol, even with the approx 25 to 30 or so ounces of water you said you topped off with, considering the apple juice and the pound of honey you should still have been somewheres around 8-8.5% alcohol (provided that I’m understanding correctly that you ended up with one gallon of volume). That would account for at least some “bite”.

The only other thing I can suggest is that it might be due to a mycoderma infection ... though I’d think you would have noticed it, as usually it creates a film on the surface of the wine which is quite obvious. This sort of infection is generally a combination of aerobic bacteria, spoilage yeasts and molds ... but is commonly identified with the spoilage yeast candida mycoderma. This can happen at the same time as your primary fermentation as alcohol is being produced ... but also commonly happens in the secondary particularly due to the presence of oxygen as this is an aerobic organism (bad handling/splashing, too great a headspace etc.)

After the primary fermentation you did have it under airlock right?

Mycoderma oxidizes the alcohol into CO2 and water and can actually give the impression of further fermentation because it is releasing CO2 . It leaves you with a wine with drastically reduced (or no) alcohol.
To quote Jack Keller at his website, it will “... eventually turn the wine into colored water.”
Sounds like your description.

Duplicate post removed

What if you carefully poured the bottles back into your fermentor and added some apple juice concentrate? I know you'll be risking oxidation and you might have to wait for further fermentation, but if you are really unhappy with the results, it might still save your batch!?!

Just a thought...

@Jacob Marley - I'm really assuming it was just a lemon batch.
I did not take grav readings as my hydrometer broke, and I know this is pretty taboo.

The bung was nice and snug in the top of the vessel, and the air lock was also snug, so I doubt it was that. It bubbled pretty intensely for the first 3-4 days, which in my history with brewing beer is usually a good sign.

It was completely flavorless, and no bite at all. I did not notice any film, but I was not looking for it, so the infection could have been a point. It definitely seemed like colored water. Thanks for the great reply!

I might try it, but I think Jacob's explination sounds spot on. It might be worth just trying again. Thanks for the idea though.

@UpstateMike - I used a measured amount of water, but I'll certainly keep this information in mind.

Thanks everyone for the great feedback, it is very much appreciated.

Yeah, I didn't read through Jacob's post all the way through... I guess I was feeling a bit lazy.

He is right, there should have been a least a bit of a bite from the alcohol. I doubt that my solution would help if there is an infection. I just thought it might be a little watered down... however with the added honey, there should at least be a hint of alcohol, probably more then a hint actually...