No visible signs of yeast activity?

I have a red malt ale going now for 48 hours using a dry reydrated yeast. I proofed the yeast at 100 F for 15 minutes prior to pitching it to the cooler wort which was somewhere below 90 F. Due the process my hydrometer fell off of the counter and shattered so I have no idea about the original SG. There are no bubbles coming through the air-lock and no visible signs of krausen developing when I open the lid. The kit was a partial grain partial LME and the type of yeast used was not labelled. A batch of summer ale I made earlier that day is showing visible signs of fermentation. Both batchs are at 72 F right now.

I know that the air-lock activity (or lack of) is not a reliable indication of fermentation but I am not sure if I should try repitching the yeast (and if so, what type should I use) or if I should just wait to see what happens? The closest LHBS is over 90 minutes away. I ordered another hydrometer but it will not arrive for 7-10 days. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks,

Mick

PS. My homebrew was a hit at my wedding and reception. I brought 100 bottles of homebrew (8 different types) and 120 bottles of microbrews and had only 6 bottles of homebrew and 20 bottles of microbrew left at the end of the evening. Thanks to all that have helped this newbie...

Have you even taken a grav reading yet? If you know that airlocks are not a good measure you do realize also what is, right?


(Your Hydrometer)

That would answer your question about your beer instantly and have given you piece of mind, instead of using a flawed method like looking at an airlock as a guide.

But, since it has only been 48 hours.....and https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/fermentation-can-take-24-72-hrs-show-visible-signs-43635/ it really is even too soon to worry about that.

Right now your yeast is coming out of a dormant period; it finds it self surrounded by 5 gallons of food, so it is waking up, and waking up its friends...THEN before it starts truly diving in the yeast start growing an army to best eat it, so they have a wild orgy and then make a bunch of yeast babies. Then they get to work. So that is why it can take up to three days before the really get going..it's called lag time, and it is perfectly normal.

Remember, fermentation is not always "dynamic," just because you don't SEE anything happenning, doesn't mean that anything's wrong, and also doesn't mean that the yeast are still not working dilligantly away, doing what they've been doing for over 4,000 years....

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in.....

Thinking about pitching more yeast before taking a hydrometer reading after waiting an intial 72 hours, is the same thing....thinking about a "cure" before we even know if the beer is even "sick."

But really, Relax, it's really really hard for this stuff NOT to turn out.

Pitching at 90F is a bit high but probably not lethal to your yeast. It could be just old or slow to start.

I'm going to go a bit against Revvy here (forgive me Rev) and say that if you do not have visable signs of fermentation in another 24-36 hrs, repitch with something like US-05 or Nottingham.

The airlock is not an indication of fermentation. Krausen, however, is. It may not be a volcanic blow-off, but you should at least see krausen forming on the top of your beer. Without a hydrometer to know for sure, I'd wait for signs and if none appear, repitch with one of those yeasts if it were me.

(I am assuming you're fermenting in a transparent container. If not, don't continue to expose the beer to risk of infection by opening the lid.)

You did read the part where he said his Hyrometer Broke right?

Dude give it another day or two I am sure it will turn out fine. If you are in a bucket then the lid could have a leak and the co2 escaping that way too.

Thanks everyone, the beer is in a bucket and I don't want to continue checking it too often. Is there anyway to take a gravity reading without having a hydrometer? I initially read through Revvy's post online last night about air-locks not being good indictaions of yeast activity but I wanted to know if there are other visible signs I could look for other than krausen development. I think I will buy a second hydrometer in the future just in case this would happen again.

Revvy said:

Right now your yeast is coming out of a dormant period; it finds it self surrounded by 5 gallons of food, so it is waking up, and waking up its friends...THEN before it starts truly diving in the yeast start growing an army to best eat it, so they have a wild orgy and then make a bunch of yeast babies. Then they get to work. So that is why it can take up to three days before the really get going..it's called lag time, and it is perfectly normal.

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I love how you personify yeast..haha

Hugh_Jass_Gnome said:

Pitching at 90F is a bit high but probably not lethal to your yeast. It could be just old or slow to start.

I'm going to go a bit against Revvy here (forgive me Rev) and say that if you do not have visable signs of fermentation in another 24-36 hrs, repitch with something like US-05 or Nottingham.

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Uh...if my math is right...48 + 24 is 72 hours, right? So I think we're in agreement about waiting.

That's quite the sermon on hydrometer usage directed towards someone who clearly stated he didn't have one because his broke.

For the record, I need to partially disagree with this whole 'do not use an airlock as a fermentation gauge' mantra. If your airlock is bubbling, it's because pressure is pushing out CO2 - 99.9% of the time the cause of this is going to be fermentation (if anyone knows another source, let me know). If your airlock isn't bubbling, your beer may very well be fermenting but you could have the airlock installed improperly, the lid on your bucket not tight, etc. etc.

Revvy said:

Uh...if my math is right...48 + 24 is 72 hours, right? So I think we're in agreement about waiting.

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Yes, we do agree to give it another day. I was just pointing out that there might not be the X-rated orgy going on in the bucket after all. If he wants to have one, he might have to get some new, more virile participants.

To the OP: The hydrometer (or refractomer) is the best way to judge fermentation. Without it, krausen, IMO, is the best indication something is happening. Others may know of other indications. Good luck.

As stated by Ohiobrewtus, My fermenting buckets are anything but air tight, therefore my airlocks are practically useless. As mentioned above I just look through the sides and see if there is any krausen, which is the tell tale proof that the beer construction is underway.

My airlocks are peacefull but if you bend down and smell near the lids, you can SMELL the love!

ohiobrewtus said:

That's quite the sermon on hydrometer usage directed towards someone who clearly stated he didn't have one because his broke.

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I'm sure you must realise that in the course of my day I answer a few dozen threads, and they all tend to kinda be along the same lines of "it's x (under 72 hours) and nothing's happening, yadda yadda yadda."

So I hope you also realise that I may not notice every detail all the time. I saw "48 hours" I saw "activity." so naturally I went to find my usual answer for these kinda threads, since about 99% of them never have "hydromter" in their mindset when they contemplate pitching yeast. So forgive me.

But the detailed answer (not "sermon" please) still stands....and if the hydromter's broken...get a replacement, but at least wait 72 hours before contemplating ANY action.

Revvy said:

but at least wait 72 hours before contemplating ANY action.

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or do what I did recently - I pitched on Tuesday night (Notty), had zero airlock activity on Wednesday morning - panicked because of the threads on HBT about potentially bad Notty - went to pitch more Notty, pulled the lid off the ale pail and found a nice big layer of krausen.

Put the lid back on, palm-faceplant as I mumbled, "Revvy was right. again."

Revvy,

"I'm sure you must realise that in the course of my day I answer a few dozen threads, and they all tend to kinda be along the same lines of "it's x (under 72 hours) and nothing's happening, yadda yadda yadda."

So I hope you also realise that I may not notice every detail all the time. I saw "48 hours" I saw "activity." so naturally I went to find my usual answer for these kinda threads, since about 99% of them never have "hydromter" in their mindset when they contemplate pitching yeast. So forgive me.

But the detailed answer (not "sermon" please) still stands....and if the hydromter's broken...get a replacement, but at least wait 72 hours before contemplating ANY action.".

Whether you missed the fact that my hydrometer was broken or not during your first run through this question, I am still very gratefull for all of the input you have to this website. I read through several of your previous posting on questions like this so that I didn't just use the air-lock as an indicator of fermentation. You had mentioned if there is krausen present then fermentation is happending. These are facts that I am learning as I start learning more about this hobby and if I hadn't read your opinion about air-locks being poor indicators of yeast activity and to look for other signs of fermentation I probably would have just pitched more yeast instead of waiting. No doubt this action would have not been the best way to deal with this problem.

Thanks again from all of us newbies for taking the time to repond to so many of these posts.

mick

msa8967 said:

Thanks again from all of us newbies for taking the time to repond to so many of these posts.

mick

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Thanks alot Mick!

Remember this is a hobby, not brain surgery. It's meant to be fun...not something we worry about.

I have found, really that the yeast are really pros at this brewing stuff.

And if after being asleep for 45 million years, Old yeast, New Beer, they STILL can manage to wake up and brew a batch of beer. Then unless we are dumping them in boiling wort...

99% of the time they are working away happily whether we think they are or not.

It is very very very hard to ruin your beer....it surprises us and manages to survive despite what we do to it...

I want you to read these threads and see..

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/has-anyone-ever-messed-up-batch-96644/

And this thread to show you how often even a beer we think is ruined, ends up being the best beer you ever made, if you have patience....
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

Just remember to RDWHAHB, make that your mantra and you will be a successful homebrewer...


Oh this thread is really good too...if you adopt the mindset in here you will do well...https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/youre-no-longer-n00b-when-24540/

Revvy,

I have now experienced the sensation of laughing so hard at "You're no longer a nOOb when.." that I had homebrew come out of my nose...Thanks for keeping this funny.

I checked the Portland Malt Ale today and there is still no kraussen build up on the top. It has been 96+ hours since I first pitched the yeast and I want anyone's ideas if I should just let this go or repitch the yeast. (My replacement hydrometer did not come in the mail today so it won't be here until Monday at the earliest.)

Thanks,

Mick

msa8967 said:

I checked the Portland Malt Ale today and there is still no kraussen build up on the top. It has been 96+ hours since I first pitched the yeast and I want anyone's ideas if I should just let this go or repitch the yeast. (My replacement hydrometer did not come in the mail today so it won't be here until Monday at the earliest.)

Thanks,

Mick

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No krausen, and no krausen ring isn't a good sign! If there is no sign of fermentation, you could try taking a sample with a sanitized wine thief or turkey baster and see how sweet it is. I'm wondering if it's possible that there was some fermenation, but the weather has been so warm that maybe it fermented quickly.

Is there any sign of a sticky ring around the top edge of the beer? I assume not, but thought I'd ask. I'd probably go ahead and repitch the yeast, and keep it around 68 degrees.

repitch active yeast from a simple small starter. If you want instructions of how to make a simple small starter, ask and I'll be more then happy to hook you up mah Brewing Brother.

Cool, any advice from anyone on making a simple small yeast starter will be greatly appreciated. I have only used dry rehydrated yeast so far in my short time of brewing. It would be great to get that done today (Sunday) since it is raining all day here. Is it recommeded that I drink a homebrew while doing any starter projects?

msa8967 said:

Cool, any advice from anyone on making a simple small yeast starter will be greatly appreciated. I have only used dry rehydrated yeast so far in my short time of brewing. It would be great to get that done today (Sunday) since it is raining all day here. Is it recommeded that I drink a homebrew while doing any starter projects?

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PM sent. And yes, it is recommended that you enjoy a Home Brew while making this simple small starter.

RLinNH said:

PM sent. And yes, it is recommended that you enjoy a Home Brew while making this simple small starter.

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Or two!!! But make sure you remember to actually add the yeast to the starter...you would be surprised at the number of threads abotu druken brewers who forget that step.

The yeast starter has started to show some activity now that is has been mixed with the full wort for about 20 hours. I think I will let this continue another 2-3 weeks just to be sure that everything is in good shape. Hopefully my mail order hydrometer will be here by then.

thanks to everyone for the input

How did that beer turn out?

I am a newbie and added the hazelnut flavor to my wort, the directions stated to add Hazelnut flavor to the secondary. Do you think this will mess up my batch? I didn't see any action in my airlock, I am hoping that this mistake didn't mess up my fermentation. I Have read the airlock is not a good indicator so, I snuck a peak and it smelled like beer and looked like krausen. How will I know when fermentation is complete? I don't want to open up the pail again.

The directions call for a secondary fermentation, but I have read it isn't necessary. What are people's thoughts. I was thinking, I would bottle after two weeks in the primary fermenter.

Thank you for your help.