2014: A year of German beers!

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johnpcook1 said:
This is exactly what Im striving to do. Traditional German beers, brewed at the "right" time, to be served at the "right" time, using German malts, hops and yeast strains, in accordance to German purity law. Thats the goal anyway lol!!

Care to share the Oktoberfest recipe?
 
Is there unique brewing equipment I would need for some German beers? Im already brewing all grain and have done a couple decoction mashes. Doing yeast starters. Washing yeast. Lagering with temp controllers, etc.

Not that I know of. If you are able to ferment low and lager, you're ahead of where I am. I don't have the capability to keep my fermentation low enough currently.
 
funnycreature said:
If you really want to stick to the Reinheitsgebot you can't use sugar for carbonation. You'd have to use the Kräusening technique. But you're most likely kegging anyway, right? :mug:

No, i dont keg yet but know that I will prob have to simply for space when lagering (I can only hold 4 glass carboys in the large chest freezer right now/maybe 8 kegs?) A keg will also help with the freezing portion of the Eisbock. As far as conditioning, yes, final conditioning in bottles using washed yeast that has gone through a recent starter cycle (for my lagers) combined with galt, to krausen. I currently have 26 cases of washed bottles ready to be filled. At least 12 of those will be by December.
 
johnpcook1 said:
The Oktoberfest is a recipe fromTuxedo Park Brewers in Indianapolis and when I get home, I will post it here. I'll talk with them first and make sure it ok.

Thanks!

I brewed one now on week 8 lagering in keg (no krausening for me), and aside from the DMS that I'm going to try to scrub out, its lacking malt depth, which I attribute to a simple malt bill of pils, Vienna, and Munich malt but I foolishly chose to forego the decoction mash in favor of a step mash, and the flavor really suffers, whereas my doppelbock which employed a massive and thick decoction of probably 75% of the grain (but only a single decoction) has an incredible malt flavor (in the pre-pitch wort sample) that I've never come close to before. Next time I do one will probably try a decoction or increasing the complexity of the grain bill.

Anyway, back on topic, thanks in advance if you can or cannot get permission, even if for nothing else but a comparison.

TD
 
No, i dont keg yet but know that I will prob have to simply for space when lagering (I can only hold 4 glass carboys in the large chest freezer right now/maybe 8 kegs?) A keg will also help with the freezing portion of the Eisbock. As far as conditioning, yes, final conditioning in bottles using washed yeast that has gone through a recent starter cycle (for my lagers) combined with galt, to krausen. I currently have 26 cases of washed bottles ready to be filled. At least 12 of those will be by December.
You could also consider condition with speise to avoid some of the hastle and uncertainty of trying to prime with actively fermenting wort
 
I'm learning something here. Galt, as I understand, is a calculated amount of unfermented wort (cooled wort set aside prior to yeast being added) that is added back into the fermented wort (beer) at bottling time. In ales, there is enought yeast present for carbonation. Spiese, is an amount of wort, not set aside from earlier but made and added at the time of bottling. A lager would also have to have yeast introduced to help in the conditioning. Spiese would work for me. I made a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort from 2 row that I canned in quart jars and use for yeast starters and will be usin for bottle conditioning soon as I finish out 2013. I will be making a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort soon from German 2 row for starters and conditioning soon in preparation for this brewing schedule. I could use that.
 
I'm learning something here. Galt, as I understand, is a calculated amount of unfermented wort (cooled wort set aside prior to yeast being added) that is added back into the fermented wort (beer) at bottling time. In ales, there is enought yeast present for carbonation. Spiese, is an amount of wort, not set aside from earlier but made and added at the time of bottling. A lager would also have to have yeast introduced to help in the conditioning. Spiese would work for me. I made a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort from 2 row that I canned in quart jars and use for yeast starters and will be usin for bottle conditioning soon as I finish out 2013. I will be making a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort soon from German 2 row for starters and conditioning soon in preparation for this brewing schedule. I could use that.

I have done the Kräusening twice now and both times I've set aside about half a gallon of wort after boiling. Kai even uses whatever comes out of his trub left in the brew kettle after filtering through a paper towel. I've also always added a few milliliters of yeast slurry that I saved from primary, just in case. You will likely be fine just adding the wort though as source for fermentables! :rockin:
 
I'm learning something here. Galt, as I understand, is a calculated amount of unfermented wort (cooled wort set aside prior to yeast being added) that is added back into the fermented wort (beer) at bottling time. In ales, there is enought yeast present for carbonation. Spiese, is an amount of wort, not set aside from earlier but made and added at the time of bottling. A lager would also have to have yeast introduced to help in the conditioning. Spiese would work for me. I made a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort from 2 row that I canned in quart jars and use for yeast starters and will be usin for bottle conditioning soon as I finish out 2013. I will be making a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort soon from German 2 row for starters and conditioning soon in preparation for this brewing schedule. I could use that.
I learned something here, too. I was completely unfamiliar with the term Galt and I always thought of Spiese as unfermented wort set aside on brew day and dumped in on bottling day.

I think a lot of us don't reintroduce yeast when bottling a lager unless it has been lagering for a while. To me, a while is more than 6 weeks.
 
Cool! Yeah, lots to learn here, and correct me if Im wrong on something. Jus got off the phone with Tuxedo Park Brewers. They gave me permission to put their Oktoberfest recipe on here, so hopefully I'll get that done this weekend. Since Im bottling my Oktoberfest next weekend, Im gonna do a starter and revive my washed yeast and we think a tbsp of cold crashed slurry in each bottling bucket outta be enough for carbonation. I know if adding dry, Ive used 2 g of dry yeast, rehydrated and added with the bottling sugar. It worked well in my other lagers. SO 5 I think.
 
johnpcook1 said:
I'm learning something here. Galt, as I understand, is a calculated amount of unfermented wort (cooled wort set aside prior to yeast being added) that is added back into the fermented wort (beer) at bottling time. In ales, there is enought yeast present for carbonation. Speise, is an amount of wort, not set aside from earlier but made and added at the time of bottling. A lager would also have to have yeast introduced to help in the conditioning. Speise would work for me. I made a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort from 2 row that I canned in quart jars and use for yeast starters and will be usin for bottle conditioning soon as I finish out 2013. I will be making a 5 gallon batch of 1.040 wort soon from German 2 row for starters and conditioning soon in preparation for this brewing schedule. I could use that.

Edited for spelling
 
Being 1/2 German I like to take "BJCP" styles and then make them "German" using German malt, hops and yeast. I've made
Kaiser Imperial IPA
Munich IPA (following American IPA style)
Baltic Porter (ale)
Alt
Been thinking of making a GIS w/RIS style.
 
From what im reading, i think galt and speise are the same thing? I got the word galt from C. Pappazian's first book. Appears the concept is the same.

All I can say is that "Speise" in German means more or less "food". In this case most likely for the yeast. I don't remember "galt" bit that doesn't mean anything. You'll be fine John!
 
Fauxtoberfest (Tuxedo Park Brewers, Indianapolis)

Batch size : 11.00 g
Est OG : 1.055 (achieved 1.053)
Est FG : 1.014 (5/18 1.012)
Est ABV : 5.5 %
Calories : 185
Total Grist and Sugar : 23 lbs, 8 oz
Anticipated SRM : 10.4
Anticipated IBU : 24.0
Efficiency : 70 %
Boil Time : 90 min

8 lbs Munich Malt 1 (7.0 SRM) 34.0 %
8 lbs Pilsner (2 row) German (2.0 SRM) 34.0 %
6 lbs Vienna Malt (4.0 SRM) 25.5%
1 lb 8 oz Caramunich 60 (60.0 SRM) 6.4 %

Brewers Additional items and notes:
.5 lb Pilsen light DME (cause it was sitting around, to increase O.G.)
.5 lb Carapils (sitting around, to enhance head retention)
1.0 lb Rice hulls
2 tsp Irish Moss


Mash In 29.38 qt strike water at 165.5 Step Temp 154.0 60 min
Brewers notes: 30.0 qt at 165.5 Achieved 153 for 60 min
Sparged 34 qts of 170 deg water
Collected 13.25 qts runnings


0.72 oz Magnum (15.10%) 60 min 19.0 IBU
0.89 oz Hallertauer Mittlefruh (4.2%) 30 min 5.0 IBU

Brewers notes: Brew day 5/11/13 (This got interesting.....)
Boiled for 30 min, achieved 12.5 gallons
Added Magnum, boiled for 30 min
Ran out of gas, 15 min wait
Added hallertau, Boiled for 15 min
Added Irish Moss, boiled for 15 min
Total time 1:45, 1:30 of which was boiling
Immersion cooled down to 70 deg
5/11 8:00 pm Placed in refrig at 50 deg
5/12 1:00 am Pitched yeast slurry from starter at 70 deg (yikes!!)
5/12 7:30 am vigourous fermentation (ya think?!?) at 70 deg in frig at 50 deg, set fridge to 36 deg
5/12 6:00 pm fermentation at 60 deg
5/13 1:00 am fermentation at 56 deg
5/13 1:00 pm fermentation at 52 deg
5/15 fermentation unit (refrigerator) failed, electrical short (swamp cooled to maintain 52-54 deg for 3 days)
5/18 new (used fridge) set at 52 deg
5/24 lowered temp to 50 deg (not for sure why :eek:)
6/1 raised temp to 65
6/7 began dropping temp 2 deg/day to 48 deg
6/16 beer at 48 deg
6/30 reduced temp 2 deg/day to 38
7/5 temp at 38
8/5 raised temp to 50 (needed to use lagering chamber (chest freezer) to cellar other bottled beers
8/9 Started yeast starter with 1 jar of washed yeast to add at bottling for bottle conditioning
8/18 Planned bottling day

2 pkg Octoberfest Lager Blend (Wyeast 2633)
(Optional Wyeast 2308 Munich Lager)
Brewers notes: 5/5 2 packs 2633 added to 3 1/2 qts water with 1 lb Briess Golden light DME on stir plate, once active fermentation completed, cold crashed)


Ferment at 50 for 18-21
Diacyetyl rest raise to 65 for 2 days, slowly cool back to 48 over a week
Secondary ferment 21 days at 48 deg
lager minimum of 6 weeks at 38 deg
 
This HB talk recipe is the one I brewed using 34/70 for yeast and S-05 for bottle conditioning. Tasted great, and unless someone has another to offer, I will prob brew this again.

Schwarzbier (based on BCS) took 3rd

Sorry I dont know how to link it
 
Thanks for the post/recipe.

here is another, similar, but with a decoction schedule. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f59/worlds-best-oktoberfest-123493/
dont' skip the decoction like I did.
Did you REALLY add 5 POUNDS of CaraPils? plus 5 pounds of DME?

anyways, thanks again. Another pseudo-Oktoberfest thread I've been following is the OktoberFAST thread by Biermuncher.

TD
 
For the love of god don't use stupid American hops in your German beers. They'll ruin it.

Use some Tettnanger in abundance but not the American variety.
 
OldWorld said:
For the love of god don't use stupid American hops in your German beers. They'll ruin it.

Use some Tettnanger in abundance but not the American variety.

Für die Liebe Gottes nicht verwenden dumm amerikanischen Hopfen in Ihrer deutsche Biere. Sie werden ruinieren.

Verwenden Sie einige Tettnanger in Hülle und Fülle, aber nicht die amerikanische Sorte.

I hope this translated correctly. I appreciate the passion in this, but it lacked something in English.
 
Ive decided to use Jamil's Steves Fifty Eisbock recipe. Grains are on order. Hope to brew my mid September.

And, some continuing education:

image-3178627643.jpg


image-1291022820.jpg
 
nothing like a good eisbock! awesome

john- i attempted the somewhat unusual but a traditional german style - smoked hefe. it came out pretty awesome. might be worth adding as a small/experimental batch in your mix.
 
That sounds tasty! I made a Loon Lake Smoked Porter last summer. Intense smoke!! It was really good. Jus drank the last one a few weeks ago so Im looking fwd to the Rauchbier!
 
The goal here for my brewery "schedule" is to have the beers listed ready to drink on day 1 of the month listed. Im hoping to brew the Eisbock within the next 4 weeks.
 
Love this idea, I've been doing the same myself for my last 3 brews except I'm not completely tied to doing them at certain times of the year.

Brewed a hefe following much of the Schneider Original techniques but held the 4vinylguiacol rest far too long and ended up with a whole lot of clove and not much banana (yes, this SOUNDS like Schneider but I even exceeded Schneider's phenolic clove levels, unfortunately).

Then a Munich Dunkel, and most recently an Oktoberfest. I was shooting for a modern German Oktoberfest recipe like you find at the festival today (1/2 Helles, 1/2 traditional Marzen); it's easily one of the best beers I've made but probably a touch too much hops both early and late. Don't get me wrong it's awesome beer, just a bit too hoppy for the style. Here's my recipe or what it's worth. http://www.beoir.org/community/index.php?f=30&t=9889&rb_v=viewtopic


I'm scheduling all of my lagers back-to-back-to-back so I can keep repropogating the yeast and have plenty of healthy lager yeast.

Next is a North German Pils. (I'm probably not going to do a Helles, at least for a while, because my Oktoberfest is so close to a helles.)
I'll probably go for a doppel sticke version of an alt bier, too for winter. (I've got the long-neck Zum Uringe doppel sticke bottle to put it in too.)


I might even use my HERMS coil to step mash starting with the pils. -I've got an insulated mashtun so modern German step mashes are quite difficult; I have stepped via additional infusions but I'm dying to try out the HERMS coil anyway.

These German styles are all about simple grists and managing the malt via step mashing so I'm trying to go that route on my recipes, too vs. complicated modern American / Jamil-like grists.
 
biertourist said:
Love this idea, I've been doing the same myself for my last 3 brews except I'm not completely tied to doing them at certain times of the year.

Brewed a hefe following much of the Schneider Original techniques but held the 4vinylguiacol rest far too long and ended up with a whole lot of clove and not much banana (yes, this SOUNDS like Schneider but I even exceeded Schneider's phenolic clove levels, unfortunately).

Then a Munich Dunkel, and most recently an Oktoberfest. I was shooting for a modern German Oktoberfest recipe like you find at the festival today (1/2 Helles, 1/2 traditional Marzen); it's easily one of the best beers I've made but probably a touch too much hops both early and late. Don't get me wrong it's awesome beer, just a bit too hoppy for the style. Here's my recipe or what it's worth. http://www.beoir.org/community/index.php?f=30&t=9889&rb_v=viewtopic

I'm scheduling all of my lagers back-to-back-to-back so I can keep repropogating the yeast and have plenty of healthy lager yeast.

Next is a North German Pils. (I'm probably not going to do a Helles, at least for a while, because my Oktoberfest is so close to a helles.)
I'll probably go for a doppel sticke version of an alt bier, too for winter. (I've got the long-neck Zum Uringe doppel sticke bottle to put it in too.)

I might even use my HERMS coil to step mash starting with the pils. -I've got an insulated mashtun so modern German step mashes are quite difficult; I have stepped via additional infusions but I'm dying to try out the HERMS coil anyway.

These German styles are all about simple grists and managing the malt via step mashing so I'm trying to go that route on my recipes, too vs. complicated modern American / Jamil-like grists.

Where can I find out more about the Schneider brewery and their techniques??
 
Well, I bottled my 11 gallons of Oktoberfest this past weekend. FG hit 1.009, and I think the estimated FG was 1.012. It had required a mash at 154, and I think I mashed at 152 (unintentionally). It is a lil bit light in body, but still very good!! Crystal clear and I drank 2 glasses straight from the bottling bucket lol. Cant wait til it conditions.

image-3007279586.jpg


image-1276909154.jpg
 
Ive been enjoying my Oktoberfest and have been distracted from brewing to a large degree lately. But, I have the grains and hops for the Eisbock and a batch of 1.040 german pilsner wort on hand. My Wyeast Bohemian lager is on the stirplate. Im gonna cold crash it and step it up to a 1 gallon 1.060 starter and cold crash before I brew. Should brew it 10 days from now!

image-3411438423.jpg
 
This is a cool idea. I was thinking about doing something similar, although I was going to expand it to all Lagers, once I get a real lager setup, and I was just going to use Jamil's book. I've made about 10 or so recipes from the book so far, and they've all turned out great.
 
So, to prepare for my first 2 brews, I picked up a Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager while on a roadtrip to Chicago on Nov 2nd. I live in east central Illinois and usually have to get my specialty stuff from Indianapolis. This is the yeast for my Eisbock, the Steves 50 recipe from Brewing Classic styles. When I go to make the starter on the 3rd, Im writing down the info in the yeast from the packet, and see the manufacturing date is.... 3/13/13!!??! I'm thinking, this cant be good. Checked Mr Malty, it says viability is 10% lol. I pitched the yeast into 2 qts of 1.040 2-row wort on a stirplate and let it do its thing. Cold crashed it on Wed, Nov 6. On Sun, Nov 10, i poured off the "beer" and pitched the slurry into 3 qts of 1.060 2 row wort and had active and aggressive fermentation in 1 hour!!! With 1" of Krausen and constant airlock activity. It will get cold crashed soon and shud be ready by this weekend.
I also picked up a Wyeast 2308 Munich Lager on 11/9/13 and pitched it into 2 quarts of 1.040 dark DME (all I had around) wort on a stirplate. This is for my February Munich Dunkel from the same book. So, I WILL be brewing both my January Eisbock and February Munich Dunkel this weekend! Planning a decoction mash on both. Should be interesting. Thoughts anyone?
 
I think I'd like to copy you, john.

Here's my schedule:

Jan: Dunkel
Feb: Dunkel
Mar: Dunkel
Apr: Dunkel
May: ... oh, you get the point :p
 
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