Weihenstephaner Hefe Weissbier Clone???

I just had this beer and it is the first hef that I REALLY like. Does anybody have an AG clone recipe of this? If not...I want to make something like it that has that banana flavor!

50% German Wheat malt
50% German Pilsner Malt

1/2 oz Hallertau @ 60m
1/2 oz Hallertau @ 10m

Wyeast 3068 Weinhenstephan yeast.

Ferment at the upper end of the temp range (68-70) to really make the banana flavours pop.

+1 on the 3068. Don't compromise here if you like the banana.

The warmer the ferment, the more banana and bubble gum. I have made several batches at 75F. After a while, though, the banana becomes cloying and you might want to go back to cooler ferment to tone it down a bit.

I would add 6 oz of rice hulls to avoid a stuck sparge, unless you really trust your setup.

I've always used White Labs...is the Wyeast really the only way to go here???

I looked on the Wyeast website and that yeast sounds perfect...

I also looked into the traditional bavarian weissbier style and decided to up the wheat to about 60% of the grain bill. Is this gonna be a problem? Should I definitely use some rice hulls now?

mroberts1204 said:

I've always used White Labs...is the Wyeast really the only way to go here???...

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WLP300 Hefeweizen Ale Yeast is the same thing.

You can go up to 70% of you want. By German law, at least 50% of the grist of a Weizen/Weissbier must be wheat malt.

Thanks Rhoobarb. I like to use White Labs cuz its good stuff and they are a San Diego based company...gotta represent!! So how does this look?

6.5# German Wheat Malt (61.90%)
3.5# German Pils (33.33%)
.5# Rice Hulls (4.76%)
.5 oz. Hallertauer (60 min)
.5 oz. Hallertauer (10 min)
White Labs #300

Mash at 153F for 60 min.
Ferment at 72F

If you ferment at 72F you will be rather heavy on the banana!

Poobah58 said:

If you ferment at 72F you will be rather heavy on the banana!

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So you think a little cooler than 72F? I really do want some banana but not to the point of being overpowering. How about 68-70F?

Has anyone used the Wyeast 3638 (WLP 351) instead of the Wyeast 3068 (WLP 300) with this same recipe? I've been trying for a Julius Echter clone and my next step is to try the WLP 351. I recently tried the Weihenstephan and it tasted a lot like Julius Echter, but the bottle said Bavarian Weizen on it.

I'm a big fan of the Wyeast 3068 - only issue I had with my hefe that I brewed a few months back (I called it weissbeater) was that I fermented at too low a temperature and got a LOT of clove. I also found that this worked much, much better bottle conditioned for 3 weeks to let the flavours mellow, as the keg kept things a little harsh.
- H

mroberts1204 said:

So you think a little cooler than 72F? I really do want some banana but not to the point of being overpowering. How about 68-70F?

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I would start there and adjust next batch if necessary.

2 of mine last night (60% wheat, fermented at 75F with 3068). I love them. The banana is dominant, but really it is only a flaw when judged against the BJCP guidelines. If you like the banana, you can't go wrong here!

2 weeks in primary, then bottled. 2 weeks in bottle. Lovely.

passedpawn said:

2 of mine last night (60% wheat, fermented at 75F with 3068). I love them. The banana is dominant, but really it is only a flaw when judged against the BJCP guidelines. If you like the banana, you can't go wrong here!

2 weeks in primary, then bottled. 2 weeks in bottle. Lovely.

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Sweeeet. Well today is the day...thanks for all the input!!

FYI, I don't do the 10 min addition of hops. I put 1oz in for 60min. I am not saying it is wrong, but i don't do it. I don't like the American wheats nearly as much as the Bavarian, and I think it is because of this late addition. I could be wrong.

mroberts1204
How did your Weihenstephan clone turn out?
I might be trying this one soon!

zymurgy had an article on techniques used to maximize banana esters for a wheat beer including grain ratio (think it was 2/3 wheat 1/3 pils). Best wheat i made to date. Screamed banana flavor. It's a long brew day, sort of like a modified decoction. Think i posted it several months ago. Give it a try.

making this on monday....good summe beer

Whiskey said:

50% German Wheat malt
50% German Pilsner Malt

1/2 oz Hallertau @ 60m
1/2 oz Hallertau @ 10m

Wyeast 3068 Weinhenstephan yeast.

Ferment at the upper end of the temp range (68-70) to really make the banana flavours pop.

Click to expand...

Ive seen more recipies with 1oz at 60 min vs the hop split above. The 1oz at 60 makes more sense to me because the original has no hop taste or hop aroma.

Ive made this 3 times, with different %'s of bavarian pils & bav wheat DME. Im doing the all grain version in a couple weeks. I think the one that actually tasted the best was 60 pils 40 wheat despite it being against the german rules but that was DME versions.

mroberts1204 said:

Thanks Rhoobarb. I like to use White Labs cuz its good stuff and they are a San Diego based company...gotta represent!! So how does this look?

6.5# German Wheat Malt (61.90%)
3.5# German Pils (33.33%)
.5# Rice Hulls (4.76%)
.5 oz. Hallertauer (60 min)
.5 oz. Hallertauer (10 min)
White Labs #300

Mash at 153F for 60 min.
Ferment at 72F

Click to expand...

I made almost exactly this recipe not long ago, and kicked the keg in like 2 weeks. Wonderful stuff. Very similar to EdWort's Bavarian Hefe recipe. I fermented mine cooler, at 64, but there was still nanners.

There was still nanners.

Hah, oops. My bad. Had no idea how old the OP was.

Still a beginning brewer and was wondering if anyone would do a simple write up/step by step on how to do this recipe, or point me in the right direction of where to read about each step involved? Or maybe just a link to some instructions? Thank you guys.

mroberts1204 said:

6.5# German Wheat Malt (61.90%)
3.5# German Pils (33.33%)
.5# Rice Hulls (4.76%)

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Rice hulls should not be accounted for in the grain bill, they're inert and contribute no fermentables.

I also like Weihenstephaner and Have done this recipe several times both AG and extract. I ferment waay on the high side of Temp (75ish) cause I want more nanner flavor, less clove. Always turns out great!!

I would just put hops in @ 60, you want the yeast easters to dominate, and finishing hop flavor and aroma just get in the way.
Ive used 1oz Hersbrucker @ 60min instead of Hallertau the last few times, because LHBS got a batch with nice lowAA, and found it a very nice substitute.

Ive always had great success with Wyeast 3068 to get that authentic flavor. Blowoff tube is mandatory with this yeast, or your carboy lid will go into orbit and make a mess.

I do mine 60%wheat 40%pills 1 oz Hallertauer at 60 then ferment at 68-70. Mash at 154 for 1 hour BIAB.
This weekend I changed it up and added 2% Melanoidin and I am going to ferment at 68 for 24hrs then bump it up to 70 for 10 days and keg. I'll let you know how it turns out.


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will it be possible to use fermentis safbrew wb-06 instead and what will be the outcome of it ?

Has anybody even tried this ??

the thing is that im not able to get my hands on that "over the pond" yeasty godliness...

beeronious said:

will it be possible to use fermentis safbrew wb-06 instead and what will be the outcome of it ?

Has anybody even tried this ??

the thing is that im not able to get my hands on that "over the pond" yeasty godliness...

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Firstly, this is a very old thread.

And no, you won't get the same flavours using WB-06 (yes, I've used WB06). It is quite a good yeast, but much cleaner than WY3068 (nowhere near as much banana or clove). You'd still make a nice beer if that's all you can get, but it won't taste like a weihenstephan weissbier.

I'm brand new to this and thought about doing a Hefeweizen for my first go around. Now, is it okay to put 6.5 lbs of German wheat and 4.5lbs of German Pilsner in a 3 gallon pot with 2.5 gallons of water with a nylon bag to strain? Seems like that would be nothing but mush but didn't know if that was okay?

That ratio of wheat to pils is good, but it doesn't sound like enough water.

If you're using a 3gal pot, I'm assuming you're making a 2gal batch (or close to), which means you want a lot less grain (11lbs is enough for about 6gal, depending on efficiency). Maybe post your question in the BIAB section as a new thread if you want help with grain/water/pot volumes.

Couple of questions:

1). What would be the difference in the final product be if instead of adding 0.5oz hops at boil start, I instead threw them in as FWH?

2). I've been reading about adding some flaked oats to render a creamyness and increased mouthfeel in the final product; would flaked wheat do essentially the same thing while being more authentic (since its a hefe)

If one were to add flaked wheat, how much should one add?

Thanks

UltraHighABV said:

Couple of questions:

1). What would be the difference in the final product be if instead of adding 0.5oz hops at boil start, I instead threw them in as FWH?

2). I've been reading about adding some flaked oats to render a creamyness and increased mouthfeel in the final product; would flaked wheat do essentially the same thing while being more authentic (since its a hefe)

If one were to add flaked wheat, how much should one add?

Thanks

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1. A bit more hop flavour. Not much difference with the small amount of hops needed for a hef.
2. Flaked wheat isn't authentic in a hefeweizen. It's used in witbiers (Belgian wheat beer). You can add oats or flaked wheat if you want, but I wouldn't.

If I'm trying to get some more creaminess, would adding either one do the trick, and if so, how much would one add?

I know it wouldn't be authentic, but I'm trying to tailor it to what I think I would like.

If I add flaked oats/wheat, am I not allowed to call it a hefeweizen? What would I call it?!?!?

UltraHighABV said:

If I'm trying to get some more creaminess, would adding either one do the trick, and if so, how much would one add?

I know it wouldn't be authentic, but I'm trying to tailor it to what I think I would like.

If I add flaked oats/wheat, am I not allowed to call it a hefeweizen? What would I call it?!?!?

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You are welcome to add whatever you want to your beer - that's one of the best things about homebrewing! This thread is for discussion of a Weihenstephaner Weissbier clone though - in which you would not use oats/flaked wheat.

5 to 10% oats is often added to witbiers for creaminess, and all of the wheat can be unmalted (about 40 to 50% wheat) which could be flaked or torrefied.

Reviving this thread from the dead to ask a probably obvious/novice question.

I followed a similar recipe for my first AG brew the other day:
6 gallon batch size
60% German Wheat malt
40% German Pilsner malt
1.25 oz Hallertau Blanc 8.8% AA
1/2# rice hulls
Weihenstephan 3068 yeast

60 minute mash @ 151
60 minute hop addition
60 minute boil

Most of the Weihenstephaner Hefeweizen clones I've found call for a 90-minute boil with a 60 minute hop addition. I assumed 60 minute boil with hop addition right at the start of boil. All my LHBS had were 8.8% Hallertau blanc pellet hops--most of the recipes call for 3.5% +/-. I also pitched pretty warm (user error with plate chiller - ~72F, I'm sure it'll be banana-y). What sort of effects do you think these variables will have on overall flavor, ABV, etc?

Sorry, new guy here!

luckybeagle said:

1.25 oz Hallertau Blanc 8.8% AA

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Hallertau Blanc is a very different hop than the traditional german hallertauer mittelfrueh, so the hop flavor might not be quite the same, but a 60 minute addition shouldn't have much flavor contribution.

It's important to calculate IBU. I calculate around 37 IBU for your recipe, which is far too high (too bitter) for this style.

60 vs 90 minute boil won't make much difference. Might be a little less malty.

RPh_Guy said:

Hallertau Blanc is a very different hop than the traditional german hallertauer mittelfrueh, so the hop flavor might not be quite the same, but a 60 minute addition shouldn't have much flavor contribution.

It's important to calculate IBU. I calculate around 37 IBU for your recipe, which is far too high (too bitter) for this style.

60 vs 90 minute boil won't make much difference. Might be a little less malty.

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Ahh dang. They didn’t have any other types of Hallertau hops at the store unfortunately, so I took an uneducated guess. Thanks for the info. I’ll report back once I taste it. Looks like I need to read up on AAUs in the meantime

90 minute boils are normally called for to reduce DMS with pils malt. I think this is mosly debunked now though. I normally only boil for 45 mins and never get DMS even with German Pils malt.

Higher alpha hops won't matter - I've used centennial before for bittering a hef and couldn't notice it, but as RPh Guy said, you need to drop the amount or it'll be too bitter. I typically aim for about 13IBU (the sourness from the yeast balances the malt reducing the need for more bitterness).

Gnomebrewer said:

Firstly, this is a very old thread.

And no, you won't get the same flavours using WB-06 (yes, I've used WB06). It is quite a good yeast, but much cleaner than WY3068 (nowhere near as much banana or clove). You'd still make a nice beer if that's all you can get, but it won't taste like a weihenstephan weissbier.

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This is an old post, but I want to share my two cents. I have a friend from Germany that is really into the Weissbier from Weihenstephaner. After read a good post related to some cloning efforts I tried to do my clone. All my previous efforts with liquid (Wyeast) and dry yeast (WB-06) failed to reach the cloves (phenols) profile until I tried T-58, based in some research comments, fermented 2 days @ 18C and then let the fermenter go up to 25 C for 10 more days to allow the yeast to sediment a bit. Cold-crashed for 4 days and the final result received a “It’s the same beer I used to drank in Germany…” feedback from my friend. Love this strain but you need to use it only if looking for a esterly and high phenol profile in your beer.

SenorbaC said:

This is an old post, but I want to share my two cents. I have a friend from Germany that is really into the Weissbier from Weihenstephaner. After read a good post related to some cloning efforts I tried to do my clone. All my previous efforts with liquid (Wyeast) and dry yeast (WB-06) failed to reach the cloves (phenols) profile until I tried T-58, based in some research comments, fermented 2 days @ 18C and then let the fermenter go up to 25 C for 10 more days to allow the yeast to sediment a bit. Cold-crashed for 4 days and the final result received a “It’s the same beer I used to drank in Germany…” feedback from my friend. Love this strain but you need to use it only if looking for a esterly and high phenol profile in your beer.

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I Must try!!!

SenorbaC said:

All my previous efforts with liquid (Wyeast) and dry yeast (WB-06) failed to reach the cloves (phenols) profile

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Did you try a ferulic rest around 45C/114F?