"Dead space" under the false bottom...

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DrBrewDC

DrBrewDC

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Brewing my first AG this morning :) Question: Regarding amount of strike water... If it is calculated that I am to use 14 quarts, does this include the space under the false bottom or do I add 14 quarts in addition to this "dead space"?
 
DrBrewDC said:
Brewing my first AG this morning :) Question: Regarding amount of strike water... If it is calculated that I am to use 14 quarts, does this include the space under the false bottom or do I add 14 quarts in addition to this "dead space"?
Click to expand...

If you didn't account for it in the software you're using, you'll probably want to add extra water.
 
I guess this is related,but I included the bottom part with the total. My wife steeped her grains in a bag on top of a cake cooling rack I put in the bottom to keep it off the hot kettle base. Even with a "false bottom",It seems to me there would be some small amount of movement.?...
 
DrBrewDC said:
Brewing my first AG this morning :) Question: Regarding amount of strike water... If it is calculated that I am to use 14 quarts, does this include the space under the false bottom or do I add 14 quarts in addition to this "dead space"?
Click to expand...

The water to grist ratio is extremely non-critical. Don't sweat it either way. Just focus on hitting your desired pre-boil volume in the kettle.
 
You only need to account for the dead space once. When you mash in you add x ammount of water. Then you drain that out leaving behind what's left in the dead space. When you add more water, the dead space is full so you should get out as much as you add. Either way, unless you have a gallon of dead space, it will be close enough that it shouldn't really matter.
 
i suspect i will have to reduce the temp of the strike water then, eh? its calculated at 172 but with an additional 3 quarts... well... now it's kind of a crap shoot...?
 
unionrdr said:
I guess this is related,but I included the bottom part with the total. My wife steeped her grains in a bag on top of a cake cooling rack I put in the bottom to keep it off the hot kettle base. Even with a "false bottom",It seems to me there would be some small amount of movement.?...
Click to expand...

I'm not following your question... What movement are yo talking about?

Typically, you will mash at a ratio somewhere around .1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain. If you don't add extra water to account for dead-space under the false bottom, you will end up with a "thick" mash.

Ed
 
unionrdr said:
I guess this is related,but I included the bottom part with the total. My wife steeped her grains in a bag on top of a cake cooling rack I put in the bottom to keep it off the hot kettle base. Even with a "false bottom",It seems to me there would be some small amount of movement.?...
Click to expand...

For steeping, it doesn't matter. We're talking about the water to grist ratio for mashing to optimize enzymatic reactions.

Once you account for the deadspace once, you're all set.

Remember that the deadspace is still technically part of the mash, and the deadspace probably isn't that much.
 
jkarp said:
The water to grist ratio is extremely non-critical. Don't sweat it either way. Just focus on hitting your desired pre-boil volume in the kettle.
Click to expand...

I agree, but it will depend on the amount of dead space... if it were large enough, the top of the grain bed could be dry.
 
I know what y'all are talking about,yooper. I was just musing that,the false bottoms I've remembered seeing had some kind of holes/vents,whatever in them. So I figured the liquid would have to move through do to heat convection. yes,no? and steeping is different from mashing,insomuch as the amount of water is concerned,etc. But kinda the same. Just trying to pick up another peice of brewing with grains...:drunk:
 
so if i understand this correctly, in the end, so long as there is an inch or so above my grain bed... all is good?
 
Ohio-Ed said:
I agree, but it will depend on the amount of dead space... if it were large enough, the top of the grain bed could be dry.
Click to expand...

Let's take an extreme / absurd example:

12 lb grist, and a 1 gallon dead space.

12 x 1.5 qt/lb = 18 qt strike

14 qt (above the false bottom) / 12 = 1.2 qt/lb. Not enough of a difference even to think twice about. Besides, I've never seen an MLT with more than a quart dead space, personally.
 
jkarp said:
Let's take an extreme / absurd example:

12 lb grist, and a 1 gallon dead space.

12 x 1.5 qt/lb = 18 qt strike

14 qt (above the false bottom) / 12 = 1.2 qt/lb. Not enough of a difference even to think twice about. Besides, I've never seen an MLT with more than a quart dead space, personally.
Click to expand...

There is certainly more than a quart of liquid under my false bottom. In fact there is more like a gallon. It's not dead space, but the grain would be dry if I brewed an absurdly small batch with 4lbs of grain.

I know it's not typical, but the OP did not mention how much space he was talking about in his first post. He has since said it's about 3 quarts...
 
I use JayBird's and I suspect the dead space in the 10 gal water cooler is 2-3 quarts. Strike water is approaching temperature so wish me luck... or providence.... or best wishes... or something :)
 
wait... one more question....

i suspect i want some water in the mlt before i add the grain... how much?
 
DrBrewDC said:
wait... one more question....

i suspect i want some water in the mlt before i add the grain... how much?
Click to expand...

Personally, I add grain & water at the same time & mix as I go.
Add some grain, then some water... repeat.
Seems to make it a bit easier to stir the dough balls out.

Ed
 
DrBrewDC said:
wait... one more question....

i suspect i want some water in the mlt before i add the grain... how much?
Click to expand...

You're using a water cooler MLT? If so, I like to put it ALL in at a higher temperature and then let it lower to strike temperature.

For example, I preheat the cooler (it's important!) by adding 180 degree water to it. My strike temperature might be 165, so I let it drop to 165 and then add my grain. If your cooler is cold (like from the basement), you'll need to preheat it even a bit more. You can't really cover over 180 in a cooler, without warping and cracking your cooler (ask me how I know! :cross:).
 
Ohio-Ed said:
Personally, I add grain & water at the same time & mix as I go.
Add some grain, then some water... repeat.
Seems to make it a bit easier to stir the dough balls out.

Ed
Click to expand...

great! and i know we want to leave the mash alone to keep temp but how often/many times should i interrupt it to stir?
 
Yooper said:
You're using a water cooler MLT? If so, I like to put it ALL in at a higher temperature and then let it lower to strike temperature.

For example, I preheat the cooler (it's important!) by adding 180 degree water to it. My strike temperature might be 165, so I let it drop to 165 and then add my grain. If your cooler is cold (like from the basement), you'll need to preheat it even a bit more. You can't really cover over 180 in a cooler, without warping and cracking your cooler (ask me how I know! :cross:).
Click to expand...

Good point Yooper.
Preheating is very important or the MT will suck the heat out of your strike water. I use a stainless steel MT but it was even more critical to pre-heat when I was using a cooler.
I pre-heat my MT, then empty it to dough in.
 
Ohio-Ed said:
There is certainly more than a quart of liquid under my false bottom. In fact there is more like a gallon. It's not dead space, but the grain would be dry if I brewed an absurdly small batch with 4lbs of grain.
Click to expand...

Perhaps its just my own system that's skewing my opinion. With no-sparge, minimizing dead space is critical to efficiency. I use a jaybird false bottom with stand in my 5 gal MLT and my dead space is about 2 cups.
 
DrBrewDC said:
great! and i know we want to leave the mash alone to keep temp but how often/many times should i interrupt it to stir?
Click to expand...

If you don't have any way to add heat back to the mash, I's suggest stir it real well when you dough in and leave it alone. Opening the cooler will cause heat loss, stirring will make it worse.
 
preheated mlt... mash temp settling around 153... how thick should this thing be??
 
DrBrewDC said:
preheated mlt... mash temp settling around 153... how thick should this thing be??
Click to expand...

About 1.5 quarts per pound of grain :cross:

Just kidding... it will get a bit thicker as the grain absorbs the water... like oatmeal. Thin enough to mix but not really watery.

Ed
 
Think runny oatmeal, but again, it's not super critical. Just make sure there's no doughballs and that everything's wet.
 
sweet! sitting at 153 and lovin' it!! :) next... i am fly sparging and i have been led to believe i want to sparge at 1 pint per minute at about 180* to a total of 7 gallons. how does the sparge water temp sound?
 
DrBrewDC said:
sweet! sitting at 153 and lovin' it!! :) next... i am fly sparging and i have been led to believe i want to sparge at 1 pint per minute at about 180* to a total of 7 gallons. how does the sparge water temp sound?
Click to expand...

I fly sparge with 170f water.
Sparge until you get your pre-boil volume or the SG of the runoff reaches about 2 Brix.
 
Ohio-Ed said:
I fly sparge with 170f water.
Sparge until you get your pre-boil volume or the SG of the runoff reaches about 2 Brix.
Click to expand...

well..... i will have to use the 7 gal method because i have no idea what 2 brix means :cross:

i believe its time to crack a homebrewed weissbier :)
 
oh....

i am using a dry yeast packet. any suggestings for and when i should rehydrate it?
 
Generally you want an hour or so fly sparge; definitely within Ohio-Ed's constraints. 7 gal is 56 pints, so yeah, a pint per minute should be ideal.
 
DrBrewDC said:
well..... i will have to use the 7 gal method because i have no idea what 2 brix means :cross:

i believe its time to crack a homebrewed weissbier :)
Click to expand...

You will probably be fine.
When fly sparging you want to watch the specific gravity of the runoff. After all the "sugar" is rinsed from the grain, you will start extracting tannins. A refractometer is the easiest way to monitor the SG of the runoff because you don't have to cool the wort to measure. You can use a hydrometer, but cooling the wort to measure is a pain and takes too long.

Ed
 
anybody have a suggestion for the yeast question? ^^^^^^^^^^

(yes, i know this stuff is on here somewhere but, of course... i am in the middle of it)
 
After many hazards along the way and about an hour longer than I had hoped it to take... 5.5 gallons are cozy in the primary and check this out...

My target original gravity was 1.056 and I hit 1.054. :rockin:

Actually I have no idea how it came out so close. (I need a bag to hold the hops!! So much grief trying to siphon it into a filtered funnel. Grrrrr....)

Thanx for all your help, guys! Time to take my son to Pirates of the Carribean.
 

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